What do you think this father should do? Remain or relocate?

[Thenavyblue]

If a separated father can't afford a sufficient property in his children's home city which allows him to provide good enough shared care, which of these scenarios do you think is in the children's best interests?

1. The father stays in the city and rents a room in a flat share or at a push a small self contained studio flat, has the children over for tea during the week and the odd sleep over during which the children have to sleep on a blow up bed in the common area.

2. He relocates to a cheaper part of the UK where he can afford a house and give them their own bedroom(s) and space, is able to have them for extended periods over the holidays and provide a much better environment for them. The caveat being he sees them slightly less, so for example, staying over EOW as opposed to just going for tea at his place every week.

Additional information: father is a low earner, currently living in an expensive city where property prices are sky high.

@RAFHercules

Option 119 My friend actually did this for donkeys years and it worked for her DC. You move out EOW and let him see them at your house. She used to stay with family and eventually new partners place. The kids Dad slept on a sofa bed in the sitting room.

Several posters have suggested this by now but have been completely ignored by the OP

@astoundedgoat

It doesn’t sound like your family could ever afford to live in London.

You cannot, and never could afford to be a SAHM.

I think it’s much better for your ex to live nearby. When you go back to work you will be very glad of having him there to share the load with school runs, sick days etc.

He has to increase his earnings though. He has been coasting for too long.

Not really if he’s managed to support a family of 4 only on his wages (unless the OP got together with him later and kids aren’t his). Even low rent doesn’t go very far in explaining that

Not great for him I agree but even worse for the DC who have to stay in sub par conditions if they want to spend a night with their father.

But that’s the reality of it. Better he’s around for them, takes them out, has them for tea regularly, can turn up to their school stuff and events and ferry them to birthday parties at the weekends or whatever than it is to force him to move far away, see them much, much less and be less involved in the minutiae of their lives all for a room of their own at dad’s house. Loads of children don’t get a room of their own at dad’s house. Loads of children don’t get a room of their own full stop.

Refocus on making sure they have a great relationship with dad within the constraints of what is possible. Don’t fuck this up by being bitter.

If the tables were turned and you left the HA property and could only work minimum wage and rent a studio near your children, would you be keen to live away from them? Leave aside thoughts of ‘I would never have left/cheated/whatever’ - would you move miles from your children and see them only a few weekends and holidays just to get them a bedroom to themselves?

Good parents work together even when separated.

Sounds like everyone could do with moving out of London tbh. Not sure what the best solution is, it's rubbish for everyone

@Thenavyblue

What a fucked up system. Mother should be working.

Why? Are we judging SAHM's now?

Given the ages of your kids, yeah we can judge. They're not pre-schoolers. You're a benefit dependent single parent who has the audacity to think she can decide her ex should move elsewhere so she gets a break every other weekend.

It's quite sad to see what MNers think of single parents on benefits who live in housing association properties. Very nice. Thanks.

@Thenavyblue

It's quite sad to see what MNers think of single parents on benefits who live in housing association properties. Very nice. Thanks.

Only ones that want their dc's father to move away to suit them

@Thenavyblue

It's quite sad to see what MNers think of single parents on benefits who live in housing association properties. Very nice. Thanks.

Oh come on. Benefits are intended for those people who need them either as a stop gap between jobs, for those who genuinely can't work for some reason or to top up a low income.

Based on what you have described as your situation there seems to be no reason why you need to be a SAHM and can't get a job.

It's the double standards you're applying to your ex's situation compared to your own that people have the issue with.

Also I think you should get a job too and maybe contemplate all of you moving out of London if you cannot afford the lifestyle. You are a SAHM so you cannot afford London lifestyle

London isn't just a lifestyle. As much as Tony Blair and his successors want to make London a playground for the rich, it isn't.

Poor people shouldn't be socially cleansed away from their family, their community, their links, their support networks. It would be a bit shit for the rich too - enjoying the London 'lifestyle' (until they get older and fuck off back to their home town or move elsewhere). No low paid means no essential workers. It's not just jobs traditionally thought of as low paid either.

The cost of housing in London is now so much that even doctors and other professionals are struggling (many leaving as a consequence). Who cleans your office, your house, hospitals? Teaches your children? Cares for your disabled child? Drives you to work on the bus or train? Gives you medical care? Delivers your food and post? Sells you products in the shops?

There's a huge amount of fuss being made recently in the press about Cornwall. Brimming with sympathy for locals who might be priced out. London has locals too. Its present mayor is one of them. Lucky for him, his bus driver father was allowed to live the London 'lifestyle'.

Why OP doesn't work, I agree with you there. The children are no longer little.

Not great for him I agree but even worse for the DC who have to stay in sub par conditions if they want to spend a night with their father.

Don't be silly. They'll be fine.

I have wrote nothing about my personal circumstances with regards to why I don't currently work, besides the fact I haven't worked in some years.

How do you know I'm not disabled myself?

How do you know one of my children isn't autistic and needs me to be on call 24-7?

You don't.

Both apply.

I have a chronic condition that means I'm in pain on a daily basis. I also have post traumatic stress disorder and another mental health condition that means I would be inadequate in most places of work due to how these conditions present themselves.

Not that any of that is relevant to the case in hand.

@Thenavyblue

What a fucked up system. Mother should be working.

Why? Are we judging SAHM's now?

Well yes. I do somewhat judge someone who could work & doesn't, when a marriage has ended & they are parenting separately.

It isn't that the mother must work but it should be a consideration as part of new arrangements moving ahead.

I'm flabbergasted at your sense of entitlement.

I cross-posted with your latest update.

It is relevant though. If there are valid reasons why you can't work, that presents a different picture.

However, I don't think you still have any right to tell him how to live and where.

You working or not working isn’t relevant - I’m really sorry for your health issues and that your partner cheated.

One of your DC being autistic probably makes his dad’s living situation feel more acute - perhaps it is genuinely very difficult for that DC to spend time overnight at their father’s without a bedroom of their own.

But.

As that is the situation you work with what you’ve got and make the best of the circumstances you’re in rather than trying to force someone else to do something that’s probably not going to help in the long-term anyway.

Focus on trying to get their father to spend more time with them in the week and more quality time at weekends. Forget the overnights for now.

Should the children just suck up the fact that the best they'll get is tea at dad's and an occasional sleep over on a blow up bed or sofa?

Should the mother suck up the fact she has to do the lions share of the parenting indefinitely?

I think you have to face the harsh reality is that the mother may still end up doing the lion's share.

How would the cost and distance of travelling to their fatherwork out? Would they make the journey alone, or would one of you have to escort them each way? How much time would be spent in transit each way and what would happen with school if there were delays and breakdowns? How willing would the DCs be to keep doing that travelling and spending weekends away from their friends, especially as they grow up and school work is more pressing?

If he's quite a disinterested parent putting more distance between you all isn't going to magically help IMO, it'll just throw up a set of different excuses.

My son & DIL used to live in the East Midlands. Their rent one a 1 bed flat was still significantly in excess of what you husband could afford on his salary and still pay you anything towards the children. So where do you expect him go and still be able to see the DC and pay CMS?

Tbf OP you did describe yourself as a SAHM to two older kids and not as disabled or a carer, so you can’t really blame people for querying it.

So how is your child so autistic that they need you on call 24/7 going to work with long journeys to where dad lives eow? Who is going to accompany them. Who is going to pay for them?

I'm sorry your situation is so hard. And I'm sorry you are getting an unwarranted hard time on here. But I dont see how your ex moving away is going to improve your lot (unless you dont actually want him in your kids lives at all).

Be aware that teens tend to want to hang out with friends at weekends. Dd is 11 and already it's becoming a problem that's she's expected to go to her dads EOW and she's getting left behind socially from her new friends she's making at high school. I'd rent the best I could afford in the area personally and dc can stay over whenever they please. Use dads bed and a good quality blow up. Dad can sleep on the sofa

Many families in the town I live in have to rent one bed flats with either the dc or the parents on a sofa bed, due to high cost of rent and lack of social housing. It is sadly becoming increasingly common. A sofa bed or blow up bed for 1 or 2 nights is not a major issue.

Option 2 but choose somewhere on a direct train line so when they are older they can get the train together.

@Thenavyblue I am sorry to read your update that puts things in a different light. But if your child's autism /your disabilities are so profound that you cannot work then I am not sure a plan that involves regularly lengthy journeys is at all sensible?

Option A with father sleeping in the communal area is better for the DC IMO.

With option B DC will get less time with their father. won’t enjoy the travelling and as they get older - later primary years onwarsa - are unlikely to want to go to his for the envisaged ‘extended’ visits, missing clubs and social stuff close to home.

@Thenavyblue

I have wrote nothing about my personal circumstances with regards to why I don't currently work, besides the fact I haven't worked in some years.

How do you know I'm not disabled myself?

How do you know one of my children isn't autistic and needs me to be on call 24-7?

You don't.

Both apply.

I have a chronic condition that means I'm in pain on a daily basis. I also have post traumatic stress disorder and another mental health condition that means I would be inadequate in most places of work due to how these conditions present themselves.

Not that any of that is relevant to the case in hand.

Sounds like a) you need to have the children's father living near by

and b) it wouldn't make any difference to your life if you were to be the one moving somewhere cheaper and he could then follow

Otherwise, it would be the best result if he were to move in with a girlfriend in the future as he'd then have a bigger home in order to be able to have the children for longer stays.

BTW, I'm disabled and was a single parent renting a HA property whilst in constant pain, suffering PTSD and even so, at no point was I attempting to prevent my children from seeing their father who lived in less than perfect accommodation as revenge for his behaviour.