What do you think this father should do? Remain or relocate?

[Thenavyblue]

If a separated father can't afford a sufficient property in his children's home city which allows him to provide good enough shared care, which of these scenarios do you think is in the children's best interests?

1. The father stays in the city and rents a room in a flat share or at a push a small self contained studio flat, has the children over for tea during the week and the odd sleep over during which the children have to sleep on a blow up bed in the common area.

2. He relocates to a cheaper part of the UK where he can afford a house and give them their own bedroom(s) and space, is able to have them for extended periods over the holidays and provide a much better environment for them. The caveat being he sees them slightly less, so for example, staying over EOW as opposed to just going for tea at his place every week.

Additional information: father is a low earner, currently living in an expensive city where property prices are sky high.

@KeyboardWorriers

You could always suggest that you try and get a council house swap in a cheaper area that he’d also be happy to move to and you both go?

This actually seems like a really sensible solution.

This. And a job perhaps?

Op I think everyone on here agrees that he can't get his own property in London, but what you don't seem to understand is that if he's on a take-home of 1200-1300 a month in retail (which would be LESS) outside of London, due to London weighting) and he's got CMS commitments as well (totally right, but does mean less money for rent) then he's not going to get his own rental property full stop. He's certainly not going to find it in a commutable area to London, but he also wouldn't find anywhere in the South East or South West, nor in most of the Midlands. Tiny chance in the north East, rural Wales or rural Scotland, but any decrease in rent would be offset by the limited job opportunities, and of course with the travel costs involved with seeing the children.

Whatever the reasons for the split, what you're asking is impossible

@Feelingoktoday Yes quite

@Thenavyblue

Is the HA £500 a month or something?

It's less than half the price of what it would be if it were a private rent. FWIW I think the private rental market in London is scandalous and the landlords exploitative, but there's little I can do to change it.

Mother has worked in numerous sectors, nurseries, cleaning, some retail too but no work experience for several years now so not the most employable candidate unfortunately

How about volunteering while the children are at school. That could be a good way of gaining experience and then a job? For some retrial posts, no training is required.

My parents divorced when I was going up and I never stayed with my dad. Lived in the same town and went round after school or whatever sometimes, can't say I was in any way disturbed by this, I don't think I'd have liked the upheaval of EOW tbh but that's just me. But anyway whichever option you go for it'll work out ok (option 2 probably best though as option 1 mum never gets a rest??)

@Kneesaregood

Op I think everyone on here agrees that he can't get his own property in London, but what you don't seem to understand is that if he's on a take-home of 1200-1300 a month in retail (which would be LESS) outside of London, due to London weighting) and he's got CMS commitments as well (totally right, but does mean less money for rent) then he's not going to get his own rental property full stop. He's certainly not going to find it in a commutable area to London, but he also wouldn't find anywhere in the South East or South West, nor in most of the Midlands. Tiny chance in the north East, rural Wales or rural Scotland, but any decrease in rent would be offset by the limited job opportunities, and of course with the travel costs involved with seeing the children.

Whatever the reasons for the split, what you're asking is impossible

Exactly. And the OP doesn't work. So surely her being able to get CMS (and hence his job opportunities) are double important.

I've just realised that in the opening post, op isn't even saying he should get his own flat, but a house with multiple bedrooms.

Op if you know where these magical houses are I'm sure that plenty of Mumsnetters would like to know if your ex doesn't want them!

Mother has worked in numerous sectors, nurseries, cleaning, some retail too but no work experience for several years now so not the most employable candidate unfortunately

You're in luck because right now retail and hospitality in London are desperate for people! My husband is in food retail, everyone is short staffed. It's the best time to get back into the workforce.

@Kneesaregood

I've just realised that in the opening post, op isn't even saying he should get his own flat, but a house with multiple bedrooms.

Op if you know where these magical houses are I'm sure that plenty of Mumsnetters would like to know if your ex doesn't want them!

Maybe it's this that gets my goat. OP as a Londoner thinks that the rest of a UK is a deserted wasteland where everything's as cheap as chips . And she doesn't even earn any money -had a less than stellar career record herself (of odd jobs here and there) - yet looks down on her husband's job, thinking that he could just 'get one anywhere', as it's not a 'niche career'. Very very out of touch with reality.

OP I don't know if your anger at your ex and your living situation is why you're so harsh. You come across as wanting to punish him rather than wanting the best for your children. It's not a good look.

Also first sentence a hyperbole but..

Honestly, OP, the most important thing in common-parenting after a split is not housing related but cordial positivity from each parent towards the other and their decisions.

Try to refocus your DC’s attitude towards seeing their dad. OK it’s not ideal they don’t have their own space with him but you could point out it’s great he wants to stay close by, and that they don’t have to travel far to see him. Help them understand the housing issues, try to facilitate contact in a meaningful way - decent regular after school midweeks are probably better than infrequent EOW and holidays arrangements.

I’m sorry you’re hurting, but just on the ‘where should he live’ scenario it’s not clear-cut that he’s wrong.

Op, perhaps the mother rather than trying to force the father to move should focus on working to provide for her own children to improve then quality of life she thinks their father is not providing. Then you can pay your own rent from a NMW and equally provide for your children. Sounds like your SAHP days are over.
This has to be the weeks best YABU.

No way those numbers add up. He can't afford the sort of property you describe anywhere close enough to London for travel to be viable. And you need to get a job. You know, one of those jobs it would be so easy for him to get elsewhere.

Maybe it's this that gets my goat. OP as a Londoner thinks that the rest of a UK is a deserted wasteland where everything's as cheap as chips . And she doesn't even earn any money -had a less than stellar career record herself (of odd jobs here and there) - yet looks down on her husband's job, thinking that he could just 'get one anywhere', as it's not a 'niche career'.

This.

I'm between roles at the moment doing training, and I wanted to take on a few hours in a retail/hospitality role locally to top up my savings, and in spite of the shortage, they're not actually keen on hiring people without experience or younger for lower wages - and that's with me willing to take any shifts too.

OP - please catch on to the fact that the reason you split doesn't matter to this situation as you've described it. Unless he's abusive to you and/or your children, then that's nothing to do with parenting and financial burdens.

Though to be honest, I'm guessing affair...

If he’s not bothering now OP then it doesn’t matter where he moves he’s still not going to bother. I live an hour outside London. You couldn’t get a flat in my town for £500

Father moved out of said property post split and is now in a 1 bed you couldn't swing a cat in.

So father works but is unable to afford anything but the bare minimum accommodation.

Mother doesn't work but still able to have better housing.

What a fucked up system. Mother should be working.

Yabu

Or you get a HA transfer to a more affordable area and ex moves too

@SofiaMichelle

Father moved out of said property post split and is now in a 1 bed you couldn't swing a cat in.

So father works but is unable to afford anything but the bare minimum accommodation.

Mother doesn't work but still able to have better housing.

What a fucked up system. Mother should be working.

'The system' worked perfectly fine before he decided to break up the family by cheating.

H.A homes are hard to come by, not least in London where you would be waiting the best part of 10-15 years there days before you were anywhere near the top of the list.

His low income wasn't an issue previously because the cost of the rent in the H.A property is remarkably lower than private.

It's only an issue now he has to essentially start again from scratch and is faced with the reality of life in London as a single bloke.

Not great for him I agree but even worse for the DC who have to stay in sub par conditions if they want to spend a night with their father.

It's all well and good people asking why should he relocate but it's quite simple really isn't it? You can't live somewhere you can't afford to live

What a fucked up system. Mother should be working.

Why? Are we judging SAHM's now?

Op you're right, he can't live somewhere he can't afford. Ergo he has to live in a houseshare. He can't afford his own property anywhere, not in London, not outside of London.

You can't afford to live where you live either - the only reason you're there is that it's social housing and presumably you are claiming benefit if you aren't working.

Whatever he has done, as long as it isn't abusing the children, it seems more like you're looking for reasons to stop him seeing the children. Usually, Mums are more upset when their exes do move away because it means the kids never get to see them. But you appear to want to reduce contact - he's clearly not able to get a better paying job, so he'd be highly unlikely to be able to get a new job in areas of higher unemployment - or pay the costs inherent in moving across the country or travelling to come back to see them, assuming he is able to not just get a job, but doesn't have to work weekends and can afford to travel several hundred miles from the nearest affordable 2 bedroomed places.

He may well have been an utter shit to you, but you trying to force him to leave your children as well as you is likely to hurt them more than sleeping on a blow up bed every week and a visit for tea every Wednesday.

@Kneesaregood

Op you're right, he can't live somewhere he can't afford. Ergo he has to live in a houseshare. He can't afford his own property anywhere, not in London, not outside of London.

THIS. You don't even have a proper AIBU - and both your options are unreasonable. Despite every single poster telling you that what you want is unaffordable you're still harping on getting him the hell out of London. This isn't about your kids living arrangements at all is it? it's about making life as miserable as possible for him because he cheated.

It was a good decision to not tolerate his crap and kick him out but that is what has resulted in his financial situation. Your DC have a low earning father who has only managed to provide for them + a long-term SAHM BECAUSE of the HA property. If you didn't have that all 4 of you would have been screwed anyway.

It's really in your kids interests to have no nights with him (because what bonding are they going to do at night)? You have to do the lion's share not because you're the mother. But because you're the one with the asset that you got out of luck, which made your family life possible in such an expensive city. That's all. You'll probably come along and say that one or other of you have SEN, disabilities etc etc which is all well and good. But that doesn't change the hard financial facts.

Maybe it's this that gets my goat. OP as a Londoner thinks that the rest of a UK is a deserted wasteland where everything's as cheap as chips

Cos one person represents 9 million people... Talking of false stereotypes, I expect lots of people are stunned by OP's predicament...because they think everyone in London is rolling in it and has twenty second homes...

It's hardly surprising OP has her misapprehension.There's been thread after thread on here over the years with an OP and family on low salaries, unable to afford a home in London (because of the 'investment London gets') when their landlord has given notice. Every single time they're told to move out of London because 'it's much cheaper'. A lot of people realise it's still expensive in many areas,but it's not surprising when people like the OP get the wrong idea.

As for OP's dilemma. It's more than likely the decision will be taken out of the dad's hands - unless he's got a magic private landlord who will never ask him to leave. I'm actually very surprised he was able to find a landlord willing to let to him on his salary. Even if he's in the outer suburbs he's looking at very minimum £900 pcm for a 1 bed (perhaps slightly less if a one room studio). He'll seriously struggle to find even a flatshare on his salary but definitely if/when he has to leave his current 1 bed that's all he'll be able to get.

In fact OP that might be why he's so reluctant to move. He's found a landlord willing to take him. He wants to cling on in there because he probably knows we live in a society that's happy to see people homeless.

Also to add - I don't normally react with emotions but you are clearly putting your desire for revenge above the needs of your children. Cheating is cowardly and selfish but that doesn't excuse your weaponizing them.