To ask how people will cope with Universal credit cut.

[ponyexpress22]

Surely they aren't going ahead with cutting it by £20 a week? I'm shocked that the government could stoop this low. What the hell are they doing.

The uplift was because people who have been fortunate enough to not need the system before suddenly found themselves as UC claimants. The government has to hide the fact that universal credit has always been insubstantial. Generally people don't believe that unless they have experienced it. So the government successfully managed to keep it hidden. If all those people had to use foodbanks etc as many working claimants do in ordinary times there would have been uproar. And in practical terms, very heavily reliance on foodbanks just wouldn't have worked given covid restrictions, they struggled as it was. It was never a compassionate uplift. Far from it. Along with the uplift many of the obstacles like the five week wait, reminders about obligations/sanctions that leave you permanently nervous etc went. The stigma went. There was more dignity for claimants and how they were handled. No one got the real experience.

Added to that none of those claiming during covid experienced the nightmare of trying to work more hours. Workplace childcare voucher schemes etc that were easily previously available to many working parents who didn't considered themselves "benefit scroungers" are now gone. Any help towards childcare has to be claimed through universal credit and it's difficult.

@Bigballer you obviously have another adult at home to enable night shifts. Far too many people don't.

I have seen people sent in by the job centre who walk out withing 15 minutes saying they can't do the job knowing they will still get benifits

Willfully quitting work gets you sanctioned.

High level sanctions
If you fail to apply for a job or fail to accept a job that is offered to you or if you leave your job without a good reason, you may get a high level sanction. High level sanctions usually last for 91 days. If you have had a high level sanction before in the past year, the sanction might last 182 days

This mad me chuckle:
But this excusing of the choice to be ignorant in a world of freely accessible information I find disingenuous. These people are adults for goodness sake. Unless they have mental disabilities, claiming you didn't know isn't an excuse.

It got me thinking of all the people that voted Brexit who just 'didnt know what would happen' even though the information was easily available to anyone.
"350 million for the NHS"
A very simple search would show that was utter nonsense, still people believed it.

But I guess it's just the poor who are expected to research everything. Not the Brexit voters or the Tory voters or people.spoutong bullshit about how many unemployed people there are or people.telling us about the millions of people that have never worked a day in their life.

All easily researched, all easily disproven, all still easily spoon fed to biased and prejudiced people.

@Bigballer , you’re I’m alright Jack approyis awful, and badly thought through. Imagine living rurally, having no childcare and limited transport options, not so easy then, is it.
Apart from which, if someone walked out of a job within fifteen minutes‘knowing they’d get benefits’ they’d be wrong.
As for you walking out of hospital, well you’re a miracle and a saint. Had I done that in June, I wouldn’t be here.
I did notice you don’t mention the sick and those with disabilities, are they feckless and lazy too?

It costs around 6 billion a year I heard to maintain the uplift. I am happy that my tax will contribute towards that, the level of UC still barely provides enough to live on.

it's two weeks to flatten the curve, it's 350 million pounds per week for the nhs, there's no magic money tree until there is a need to bride to the DUP, it's an oven ready deal.....

It's a temporary uplift is just another political sound bite that can just as easily be broken - at least this time it would be a positive for the poorest

@Bigballer care to come back to @Gilead's points?

[quote Threearm]@Bigballer

Your ignorance is hideous.

For many people (who are seeking work) it isn't the availability of jobs it is the demand by the majority of employers to be fully flexible which is an absolute nightmare for childcare. I know my previous employer demanded full availability 7 days a week 5am-7pm despite staff only actually getting 4 x 6 hour shifts. How on earth do they manage childcare? This is standard in manay low skilled jobs such as retail, factory, care etc.

You do realise that the majority of people living on nothing don't actually have take aways etc? Far too many people have frozen or starved to death because they can't afford them.

Go and spend 2 or 3 days in the real world and not the government/channel 5 bullshit world.[/quote]
Yes this exactly. My ds1 is young and no kids but his employer works 40 hours a week.
This can involve starting at 7.15 am and ending at 10pm, weekends also. They change his shifts at short notice, for example this week he was meant to have thursday off, this was cancelled on tuesday and he now has today off. He moans that other staff are never able to do the unsocial shifts or change at short notice and I have pointed out to him that this could be because they have kids or are single parents or have to fit around partners work patterns. He can accomodate this now but if he had kids or was a lone parent he would need to leave the job.

Amazing how many posters post one frankly psychopathic thing then never return. It's ALMOST as if they don't have the arguments to back up their positions.

@CorianderAndCream - it is true many are struggling but those I know not on UC do at least have enough to cover their outgoings or room to cut back their outgoings unlike many on UC.

@Bigballer

Well people can always get a job or work more hours, plenty work around for willing people. Cut back on unnecessary purchases like alcohol, tobacco, take aways, meat; rice and beans can sustain a human.Turn the heating down and wear a jumper, shower/bath less or do so at work many ways to save money.

How can people get a job if they are too sick/ill to work? I don't buy alcohol or tobacco. Takeaways sometimes as due to my disability I can't always cook - this comes out of my PIP. We don't eat meat - plenty of rice and beans but would be very depressing to eat that every day. We wear jumpers and sit with blankets in the winter, I don't shower everyday. The only way I'm going to be able to save is to reduce money spent on groceries and go to the food bank instead.

No, his hours aren’t equivalent to full time, if you actually read my post then you would be able to work out that he can’t possibly work 37+ hours a week because where would the children go?! Who’s going to pay for the childcare because we sure as hell wouldn’t have the money to! The choice would literally be between heating and food and childcare. So again, work it out for me
What's the point of posting on individual circumstances when we have no idea about your outurns, debts, spending habits.

My neighbour for isntance always moans they are struggling financially but the chose to have two cars. She really really doesn't need one. The kids who are now all over 10yo go to a school that is a 10mns walk. We have buses that take us everywhere 2mns walk away, town centre is 15mns walk and you then have the train that goes everywhere. There is no disability in the family. Yet she takes the kids to school and back every day. She never ever walks. She doesn't work!

So really, it's impossible to say how much people are struggling through no choice or because they don't make the best decisions about their finances.

So really, it's impossible to say how much people are struggling through no choice or because they don't make the best decisions about their finances
Irrelevant. Two points, if the majority are struggling, it’s a struggle and losing £80.00pm increases said struggle.
If people, according to you are profligate with their finances, who are you to judge. I have been accused of such buying basmati rice, instead of long grain. Surely my choice?

Our food bank is mostly provided for by people who aren't that well off themselves. They shouldn't have to do this. It's not a solution.

@vivainsomnia

No, his hours aren’t equivalent to full time, if you actually read my post then you would be able to work out that he can’t possibly work 37+ hours a week because where would the children go?! Who’s going to pay for the childcare because we sure as hell wouldn’t have the money to! The choice would literally be between heating and food and childcare. So again, work it out for me What's the point of posting on individual circumstances when we have no idea about your outurns, debts, spending habits.

My neighbour for isntance always moans they are struggling financially but the chose to have two cars. She really really doesn't need one. The kids who are now all over 10yo go to a school that is a 10mns walk. We have buses that take us everywhere 2mns walk away, town centre is 15mns walk and you then have the train that goes everywhere. There is no disability in the family. Yet she takes the kids to school and back every day. She never ever walks. She doesn't work!

So really, it's impossible to say how much people are struggling through no choice or because they don't make the best decisions about their finances.

Because the sweeping generalisations on this thread are unhelpful and misinformed. You’re quite right, no one can judge so frankly there shouldn’t even be a discussion.

@Tealightsandd

Perhaps they'll cope the same way as the mainly disabled people who are in receipt of the legacy benefits. They weren't included for the extra £20. Nobody seems all that bothered about them.

It's actually pretty disgusting and hypocritical to see all the apparent concern for people struggling. It's sending out a message that disabled and other struggling legacy benefit recipients don't matter.

What utter bollocks. Its possible to think that the £20 shouldn't be taken away AND also think that disabled people get a shit deal when it comes to benefits.

@ArcheryAnnie

I've made it crystal clear in my many subsequent posts that I support the extra £20 - for ALL recipients. And, when I said what I said in my above post, I was being sarcastic - as in they won't manage and will struggle.

@Brokensunflower

No, his hours aren’t equivalent to full time, if you actually read my post then you would be able to work out that he can’t possibly work 37+ hours a week because where would the children go?

Where did you think they were going to go when you worked when you decided to try for a baby?

I come back to we should only have benefits for those so disabled they are unable to work and for the others for the short period they are out of work.

I would rather the benefit money wax used to subsidise childcare fees and get people into work. We could have vouchers for food to be be spent on essentials and include lots of fruit veg and staple items for cooking fresh healthy meals.

Solves many issues, kids are fed, stimulated properly at nursery (we know kids from poker backgrounds perform worse developmentally(. And parents are in jobs, contributing to the economy and will have skills to keep them in work as the children grow up.

Did you actually read my post. Our circumstances changed

We didn’t need childcare before COVID when DH lost his job. He can’t go back to that job because of the ongoing pandemic. Don’t offer your opinion if you can’t read a post properly.

@Wishitweresunday

The uplift was because people who have been fortunate enough to not need the system before suddenly found themselves as UC claimants. The government has to hide the fact that universal credit has always been insubstantial. Generally people don't believe that unless they have experienced it. So the government successfully managed to keep it hidden. If all those people had to use foodbanks etc as many working claimants do in ordinary times there would have been uproar. And in practical terms, very heavily reliance on foodbanks just wouldn't have worked given covid restrictions, they struggled as it was. It was never a compassionate uplift. Far from it. Along with the uplift many of the obstacles like the five week wait, reminders about obligations/sanctions that leave you permanently nervous etc went. The stigma went. There was more dignity for claimants and how they were handled. No one got the real experience.

Added to that none of those claiming during covid experienced the nightmare of trying to work more hours. Workplace childcare voucher schemes etc that were easily previously available to many working parents who didn't considered themselves "benefit scroungers" are now gone. Any help towards childcare has to be claimed through universal credit and it's difficult.

All of this ^

@Pixxie7

I think a lot of people support keeping the uplift however the question is where is the money coming from? Everyone is facing increased expenditure some will hardly notice it, whilst others will really struggle. The ones I feel for are those in the middle who receive no help.

Where would the money come from?

How about our (taxpayer funded) MPs follow the lead of NZ? Take a 10% paycut.

shower/bath less

Yeah that will go down well at work. You know, with the large number of benefit recipient who are working. And the sick and disabled? Heaven forbid they're allowed to keep themselves as healthy as possible. Let's have them shiver (and smell).

Irrelevant. Two points, if the majority are struggling, it’s a struggle and losing £80.00pm increases said struggle
Who says the majority is struggling?

If people, according to you are profligate with their finances, who are you to judge
I'm not judging what people do with the money they get, but if for those who opt for luxuries and then complain they don't have enough to buy basic foods, I don't have sympathy.

I agree that threads like this are totally pointless. Of those on UC, some will do fine, some will struggle a bit but do ok with a few changes, some will actually do very well (single mum getting very large maintenance for children), some will really struggle, of which some will be through no fault of theirs at all whilst others will be due to poor choices.

No one is goingg to come and say that they are struggling because they are opting to have a car they don't need but like to have for the freedom it gives them or because they love working oy 16 hours even though their boss is begging them to up their hours.

@vivainsomnia 'who says the majority is struggling?'

This information is readily available if you care to do a simple Google search. Here is the Joseph Rowntree Foundation: www.jrf.org.uk/press/uk-heading-biggest-overnight-cut-basic-rate-social-security-world-war-ii

Among other things, it states that 'Half a million more people are set to be pulled into poverty, including 200,000 children.'

@EmmaOvary, you mean an organisation that has a direct interest in the matter? You consider all families whose income is less than average to be in poverty?

That's right, I don't believe their biased statistic at all. I remember that I met the criteria as being a family in poverty when I was a single mum of 2 under 5. I certainly was not so. Yes I had to be careful with money, yes I had to prioritise and didn't have much money for holidays nor to save regularly but I could feed my family healthily, keep us warm, buy them adequate clothing, pay for a few activities and days out, treat them reasonably for Xmas and birthdays and kit the house with essentials.

So no, I don't pay much attention to their statistics.

@vivainsomnia yes, they are a charity concerned with poverty and wellbeing so they have an interest in the matter, what a strange comment. We should all have an interest in the matter.

EmmaOvary .. you wrote that if the uplift goes the disabled will go back to shivering once more

My relative is disabled . This is not the case at all. She has a disabilty car. She has weekly massages. She shops in m and s . She has a cleaner.
She is very comfortable.
She could actually work . She is a wheelchair user and spends much time on her computor and has an allotment for which she pays a gardner to.help her. She has never ever been under any pressure to.work and she could do an office job.
She has a happy and supported good quality of life.
I know that this can be different with different disabikities but somwtimes I get sick of sterotypical assuptions about ' the disabled' as if are all poor when it is simply not the case and tax payers money here is supporting an comfortable life.
And this will not am.sure be challenged as she cannot.walk . I guess less visible disabity may be different. However, not all.disabled people will shiver and shake with cold now. Even her pets get fresh human quality food.