AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

Also having resilience and determination rather than zero motivation and a feeling of worthlessness and despair is pretty lucky. As someone who suffers depression I know both sides of the coin and the former is definitely a blessing the latter an absolute curse

@Cornettoninja

Scholarships are usually given on 'merit'

Translated this means HARD WORK

Again, yes, hard work will get you access to apply. but scholarships aren’t unlimited so not everyone who applies will be awarded one despite working hard to meet the criteria.

Just like not everyone who meets to the criteria to apply for certain courses (medicine, speech therapy and midwifery are notoriously hard to get into off the top of my head although that’s based off old knowledge) because there are limited spaces on each course.

The reverse of that is if you’re lucky enough to apply in a year there hasn’t been much interest you’re more likely to win a place/scholarship.

I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand here.

I don't know what's so hard to understand either. I think it's just arrogance. They think they're just so very brilliant that there's no way they couldn't possibly have been lucky as well.

I got a super prestigious scholarship. Took me weeks to do the application form and write the accompanying essay. I must have done well to be picked for interview from over 200 candidates, but here's where the luck part came in - 6 of us were invited to interview. 2 pulled out because they'd found other courses, and another one pulled out because she thought it was too far to travel. That meant my chances were now 1/3 instead of 1/6 - much, much better! I travelled to London for the interview from the continent, which was another thing the panel looked upon favourably, particularly as another candidate had kicked up a fuss about a much shorter distance.

Did I get that scholarship because I was lucky? No, but it would be arrogant and deluded to think luck didn't play a massive part. In an alternate universe where all 6 candidates had attended, one of them quite simply could have been slightly better in the interview and that would have been that. I've had plenty of other experiences in my life where I very narrowly missed out on something.

Many things have been said about me but Never that I have had an easy ride!!!!! That's actually one of the unkindest and most untrue things someone has said about me in the recent past!
Like you I have also have worked overseas ..I have worked in many places in Europe and went to India to work all alone. Not understanding anything and being lost and unhappy! Even after being engaged and married we both lived separately for years as we couldn't get suitable jobs in same city / country!

The fact of the matter is, yes some or possibly even most people who say that , may have a lot to thank for their success including privilege, luck , personal traits that aid their success. However, there are people who have overcome a lot of adversity to get to where they are and did work extremely hard for everything they have and possibly sacrificed a lot along the way, and who are you to say they didn't?

And "hard work" is really subjective and individual to the person, maybe you don't see it as hard work but it felt like hard work to the person.

On the whole, there must be some sort of correlation between working hard at school and earnings potential. Excluding those who aren't perhaps as academically able, have specific learning issues or are at low achieving schools.

I attended a lecture on motivating your children (we can all dream that there's an easy answer to that...) and I remember them saying that kids struggle to be motivated by longer term benefits. Along the lines of sacrificing some socialising and fun when you're a teenager to study hard for future benefit in terms of career prospects. My best friend was academically very able but took the path of partying rather than studying, left school at 16 and had a series of low paid jobs. Some of my university friends are now partners or senior directors at law and accountancy firms, as their study paid off for their careers.

Obviously family circumstances also play a large part in supporting academic achievement, whether a quiet place to study, paying for revision books, level of household chores undertaken by kids or a stable home environment. As well as parental encouragement of the importance of working hard at school.

But if you don't get good A levels or a decent degree, it's harder to get into the higher paying professional services type roles. Not that it's impossible, my sister qualified as an accountant at night school while working full time but it wasn't easy for her.

Even the phrase "I worked really hard to get where I am" makes me wince. It rings really smug for some reason and is usually only uttered aloud by those who "work" in some vacuous industry. I've seen a few "influencer" types say it for example. As though taking pictures of yourself to entice people to click on a follow button is seriously hard graft

I think this attitude in the op is downright offensive. No one got me out of the ends except myself. And it wasn't down to luck. I created my opportunities by being proactive and tenacious. Along with a lot of sacrifice and going without to be able to do what I've done. Just because I have more than others is no reason to tell me I didn't work hard enough for it. No one handed me anything, tyvm.

@sallievp

Many things have been said about me but Never that I have had an easy ride!!!!! That's actually one of the unkindest and most untrue things someone has said about me in the recent past! Like you I have also have worked overseas ..I have worked in many places in Europe and went to India to work all alone. Not understanding anything and being lost and unhappy! Even after being engaged and married we both lived separately for years as we couldn't get suitable jobs in same city / country!

OMG I'm making the point that you thought it was a hardship to move all over the country with your DH, that's still much better than moving all over the world on your own. That's literally it.

BlackTee40 Noone is telling you that you didn't work hard. However, just the fact that you can makes you lucky. Someone else may not have that opportunity.

@Recessed

Even the phrase "I worked really hard to get where I am" makes me wince. It rings really smug for some reason and is usually only uttered aloud by those who "work" in some vacuous industry. I've seen a few "influencer" types say it for example. As though taking pictures of yourself to entice people to click on a follow button is seriously hard graft

Yes! An influencer I follow was trying to convince us of how hard she works. "I have to spend like, an hour on hash tags for every photo" she says without a trace of irony.

When I was her age (early twenties) I was literally cleaning other people's shit out of toilets and washing strangers' dishes, despite having worked my arse off for a degree! Some people genuinely don't know what hard work means.

It's quite worrying that all these highly successful, highly paid people can't read!!

Just acknowledging the role of luck or chance ( however small) does not take away how hard you have worked!! That's what people are saying if you'd bother to read

Thank you for illustrating my point @rozzie (and obviously well done!).

Apply this to a sport
Do you think it's a luck that someone wins a medal in Olympics? Because there is only so many medals to go by after all

@Annoyedanddissapointed

Partially yes (there are so many variables outside of raw talent that could affect someone’s entry to the olympics), but then I’m not arguing that success is the result wholly of one or the other (luck/work).

My points have been about the recognition of that is important because it highlights inequalities rather than buying into the idea that hard work alone will equal success because it’s just not true. If what you’ve done can’t be replicated with certainty then it’s not ‘just’ down to hard work.

Ignoring the element of good fortune means ignoring how to make things better for those who come after you. It has a whiff of pulling up the ladder after yourself to not acknowledge that if all things were equal things may very well have worked out differently.

It leads me back to the example of privilege, people who don’t ‘feel’ privileged get very defensive when it’s pointed out that they do actually possess it. It’s not an insult or derogatory observation, it’s highlighting that there is an unequal element that individuals don’t have any control over. The aim is for things to be better not to minimise peoples achievements.

I find the amount of jealousy and envy on these threads quite disturbing at times. Nobody knows anyone else's life or circumstances, even though they may think they do. Concentrate on yourself and ways you can make your own life better. I never achieved the career I could have had, as my parents just did not have the means to help me(it would have meant money for certain things).This is no one's fault, not theirs, not mine. I just got on with it and made the best life I could for myself and my family and yes, I did work bloody hard, as did my husband for what we have now. Jealousy and envy is a waste of time, it just makes you a very bitter person. There is no point in that. There are many things in life we would like, but don't get. No one gets everything they want and life isn't fair. I learnt that lesson very early in life.

Sorry but what a load of bull! Working hard everyday is not something lucky is it!
If you want something in life get off your butt! Don’t be so bitter against people who have worked hard for their success !

I disagree it’s jealousy @Gothichouse40, it’s person A trying to figure out what makes the difference between what they’re doing and what person B is doing because they’re getting a very different result despite working hard, taking risks or whatever.

I think a lot of the heightened emotion comes into play when person A answers that they’ve been doing the hard work bit but don’t appear anywhere near where person B is and the only factors left are good fortune/privilege in whatever form. Then person B gets defensive because actually they can’t see why person A isn’t successful either so they think the only answer is they’re not trying enough because to admit that they’re not the sole architect of their lives and security is a vulnerable position to reconcile.

It depends on perspective to be honest
I did work hard and achieved only just good enough gradesto get into uni. I re sat several GCSES 3A levels and the whole of the last year of my degree. I didn't go on a gap year, didn't drink a lot , worked hard on my assignments. I did uni five days per week, worked evenings and weekends saving so that I could afford to reduce my hours when I needed to do my placement. I paid my rent myself too.
Some of my friends loved uni but I hated itas academic study is not my bag. But once I want something I work till I get it and I did. It means that now I have a job I love, it has worth and meaning. It pays me enough but not lots.
When I say I worked hard, I mean that I did but it doesn't mean I think others don't. Im proud of myself.

@Gothichouse40

I find the amount of jealousy and envy on these threads quite disturbing at times. Nobody knows anyone else's life or circumstances, even though they may think they do. Concentrate on yourself and ways you can make your own life better. I never achieved the career I could have had, as my parents just did not have the means to help me(it would have meant money for certain things).This is no one's fault, not theirs, not mine. I just got on with it and made the best life I could for myself and my family and yes, I did work bloody hard, as did my husband for what we have now. Jealousy and envy is a waste of time, it just makes you a very bitter person. There is no point in that. There are many things in life we would like, but don't get. No one gets everything they want and life isn't fair. I learnt that lesson very early in life.

^ Totally agree with this Gothichouse40 we can only really focus on ourselves.

And tbh I have never, ever, in RL heard anyone utter the words "I have worked hard to get where I am". Most people, unless they are extremely strategic and ambitious, just muddle along as best they can, overcome life's challenges the best way they can, and if they have any sort of humility and awareness about them, are grateful for the things they have and manage to achieve, and are grateful for good health if they have it.

Yabu

In contrast to my siblings, I didn't party or spend my youth and money on holidays. I didn't prioritise sneaking out with boyfriends over keeping my parents curfew. Instead i worked hard at low paid jobs, climbed my way up.

Now my siblings are paying the price of their decades of not working hard, are on paid sick leave from work, living in council housing and have no spare cash to fulfil their or their children's dreams, whereas I have a well paid job, own house, car and can travel and give my children opportunities. It's because I worked hard. No one handed this stuff to me on a platter. There was no luck involved in taking the initiative to apply for jobs and getting up and ready for 1.5 hour commutes everyday, organising childcare and lunches and finances and hopping from one deal to another to save wherever possible.

I work hard every day for my lifestyle. I observe my siblings moan about their bad luck, like many on Mumsnet, and continue to get nowhere and bumble from one financial disaster to another. Fortunately they are lucky that due to my ongoing hard work, they get bailed out now and then or some help sorting things they need. No such luck for me...

Also having resilience and determination rather than zero motivation and a feeling of worthlessness and despair is pretty lucky. As someone who suffers depression I know both sides of the coin and the former is definitely a blessing the latter an absolute curse
You're implying these are state of being. This where the difference is. I've been seriously depressed, enough to be admitted, and I can categorically say it is 'hard work' that got me out of it. Indeed, resilience and determination in starting at the bottom and becoming stronger small step after another.

It was the difference between getting up and getting a shower and just turning on the other side in bed when the latter is what every part of me was calling me to do but I knew Gerri f up was what would long term make me feel better despite making me feel awful short term.

Hard work is doing what deep inside you know is for the best long term but isn't at all short term. Hard work is opting for delayed gratification when everything screams to grab immediate pleasure or relief.

Of course those who go for immediate gratification call those who don't lucky because many don't grasp the concept.

There is an element of luck in that being raised in an environment that values delayed gratification will indeed encourage you to become so, but the concept is very much open to anyone. That's what hard work is because it's hard to give up something good for the chance to get something even more rewarding later but no guarantee.

Interesting thread... My background:

Broken home, abusive father who gave no emotional/financial support. My mum worked odd jobs as a cleaner etc to provide for us. I had a weekend/summer job since I was 13 (as did my siblings) until I found a job after Uni. I saved to go to Uni (and get a student loan of £15k) and do a masters and do a professional qualification (£35k loan from bank). I became a lawyer and now 15 years later run my own law firm after paying back my loans.

Was I lucky? Yes. My family have always been supportive and encouraging, which honestly is worth more to me than financial help. Banks gave loans if you wanted to become a professional back then (I don't know how). Without that, I couldn't have done it.

Did I work my arse off? Absolutely! I wouldn't have it any other way! :)

The perfect example of this is diet. 8m tired of people telling me that I'm lucky to be slim. I'm oy slim because I don't indulge and give up to temptation.

I too drool in front of the lovely cakes, I too crave fatty takeaway and would go to MC Donald's 4 times a week if it didn't affect my body negatively.

I am slim because I fight temptation and tell myself no. It's hard work to do so, it's mentally challenging, can even be physically tough at times, but I do it only because I want to be slim, that state of being that others I'm just lucky to be in.

@vivainsomnia excellent post, articulating the theory behind my experience

@vivainsomnia

The perfect example of this is diet. 8m tired of people telling me that I'm lucky to be slim. I'm oy slim because I don't indulge and give up to temptation.

I too drool in front of the lovely cakes, I too crave fatty takeaway and would go to MC Donald's 4 times a week if it didn't affect my body negatively.

I am slim because I fight temptation and tell myself no. It's hard work to do so, it's mentally challenging, can even be physically tough at times, but I do it only because I want to be slim, that state of being that others I'm just lucky to be in.

I'm slim because I have a fast metabolism and a lean/petite build and walk everywhere I need to go (which some weeks is nowhere). I did sweet FA in lockdown 'proper exercise' wise and I didn't really gain weight. I also don't order loads of fatty takeaways or eat McDonald's but I'm not arrogant enough to think that others wouldn't gain weight doing what I'm doing. I eat pretty well most of the time but I'm able to scoff a whole can of Pringles in a night, a whole bar of Dairy Milk and most of a bottle of wine and still be thin. Some people do just have body types which put on weight more easily than others.