AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

Still maintain my apparently trite and ridiculous opinion that it would be healthier and more helpful to look at how to support people without "luck" rather than resent people who have a better starting point.

Addressing inequality and supporting initiatives that try to fix it.

Being angry at ordinary people who have worked hard doesn't really help anyone in reality. Be angry at the people who are forcing inequality.

Inspiring people to be proud of what they achieve isn't a bad thing. And not everyone's big achievement is a Surrey Mansion and a hedge fund either.

Both things can happen. If we get rid of this government!

I've worked really hard to get where I have. Had to start again when ex left. Start a new mortgage. Bring up a child who is now an adult. I'm now nearly mortgage free, age 53 and never had any debt except mortgage. It's been through hard work and being careful

@Hothammock, thank you!

@Rozziie, it does sound like YOU are lucky indeed, but that doesn't mean everyone is and that's what many have pointed out on this thread.

Inequality is not always fixable or even to do with money. I had a well off family and a private education. Then my mother died and my father became an alcoholic. I had no support, no guidance...I left uni and had no idea what I wanted to do and no one to ask for help. I couldn't concentrate on a career because my entire head space was preoccupied with the terrible situation at home. This is no one's fault necessarily and it's not a situation that was fixable by anyone. It a form of inequality but not one that society can sort out

@Comedycook

Inequality is not always fixable or even to do with money. I had a well off family and a private education. Then my mother died and my father became an alcoholic. I had no support, no guidance...I left uni and had no idea what I wanted to do and no one to ask for help. I couldn't concentrate on a career because my entire head space was preoccupied with the terrible situation at home. This is no one's fault necessarily and it's not a situation that was fixable by anyone. It a form of inequality but not one that society can sort out

That's sounds really hard.

Back in the distant pages, I did post about young carers, mentors and funding support for people in your situation. Might not fix it, I get that, but we could be offering more than we are so that other kids might not have to struggle quite so hard. Or at least have better outlets for that pain.
I AM very lucky I didn't go through that as a kid.

[quote vivainsomnia]@Hothammock, thank you!

@Rozziie, it does sound like YOU are lucky indeed, but that doesn't mean everyone is and that's what many have pointed out on this thread.[/quote]
How do they know? Perhaps you think you're slim because it's all down to your own hard work and willpower when actually, you do have some genetic advantages?

Still maintain my apparently trite and ridiculous opinion that it would be healthier and more helpful to look at how to support people without "luck" rather than resent people who have a better starting pit

I don’t think that’s how either view starts out though, I think this is how it ends up when both sides are met with spikey reactions.

Addressing inequality and supporting initiatives that try to fix it

Which needs acknowledgement of the issue by the people who have tackled the same obstacles successfully

Being angry at ordinary people who have worked hard doesn't really help anyone in reality. Be angry at the people who are forcing inequality

I agree and I think it’s amazing how many people buy into it on both sides, acknowledgement of the existence of inequality needs to come from those who have succeeded despite it as well as those who haven’t.

I think it’s fascinating how this has worked for gender and racial equality but not social mobility (and they’re all entwined)

Inspiring people to be proud of what they achieve isn't a bad thing. And not everyone's big achievement is a Surrey Mansion and a hedge fund either

Absolutely agree. That requires societal change to embrace and recognise that though which is unlikely to happen when our economy relies on massive jumps in individual wealth distribution. People don’t really look at the finer things in life if they’re in a constant battle to secure the basics.

Both things can happen. If we get rid of this government!

I don’t disagree!

Pressed post instead off preview! Substitute finer things in life for meaningful things in life!

My husband had a privileged upbringing. He also studied in uni for 9 years to get where he is now so yes he has worked very hard to get where he is now. I didn't go to uni and I don't have the best paying job in the world hut I still worked hard to get to where I have- extra exams etc but he 100% worked way way way harder than me

Yes definitely @MeredithGreyishblue ... support was definitely needed and I actually think my middle class, well off background was barrier to any help.

But it's interesting...some people have personalities and characters that make them more determined to succeed and overcome the odds. I very much do not. I'm a bit placid...I'm a more roll over and give up sort of personality type than a right, let's beat this shit kind of person!

It's like some people who have grown up in care go on to become drug addicts but conversely some rich kids with the world at their feet go on to become drug addicts. They have addictive personalities.

So much of our personality is hard wired and unchangeable. I can try but deep down I'm a pessimistic introvert. I won't change my fundamental being. I will try to fight it to achieve certain things but it doesn't come naturally.

There's a mum at my dcs school who got divorced recently...she is extremely extrovert and bubbly. She seemed to completely bounce back...got on with her career, met a new man and has a fabulous life. I know I'd probably be straight on the anti depressants and miserable as sin

@Comedycook

There's a mum at my dcs school who got divorced recently...she is extremely extrovert and bubbly. She seemed to completely bounce back...got on with her career, met a new man and has a fabulous life. I know I'd probably be straight on the anti depressants and miserable as sin

She might be too! On ADs.

My sister loves to tell me how lucky I am, just luck nothing else.

She forgets, the nights I spent in studying instead of partying
The second hand or cheap clothes
No holidays for years
Not having the latest gadget or newest style handbag.

Well now many years on my hard work has paid off, I have a beautiful home and a great job that I love

But no that's all down to luck

How do they know? Perhaps you think you're slim because it's all down to your own hard work and willpower when actually, you do have some genetic advantages?
Then why is it that when I go in holiday and let myself eat as I wish, I put on half a stone in a week?

Then I have to work double hard to lose it. My mum and dad are the same, so sadly for me, no luck of genes. If I am not
disciplined at all time, watch calories, work out 5 times a week, I will be a couple of stones or more heavier in matter of weeks.

Why would you dispute my words though! That's what really grinds.

@Comedycook a lot of your story resonates with me (I lost one parent and the other sustained a serious brain injury as a teen with no wider family) and have spent a long time observing the differences between myself and my peers, some of those are unquestionably traced back to the loss of a family unit and the opportunities that supports.

I’m not successful by MN standards but I’m pretty content and happy by my own in that I’ve achieved a degree of self sufficiency and security. I’m not anywhere near as successful or financially savvy as my parents were, but then I don’t really see the pay off of their success as the years have gone by; their security relied on the ability to continue to retirement age which obviously didn’t happen so their financial cushion was limited and the house they brought is now more of a hindrance than an asset to the parent with a B/injury and they stubbornly refuse to let get of the notion it’s their defining asset. My point being that working hard isn’t enough to guarantee security and success and is often very fragile and essentially reliant on luck, not just to obtain but to maintain too.

I don't begrudge people who work hard their successes, even if they've had some lucky breaks along the way.

Like a pp I'd like to focus more on how we can help the people less lucky, than being bitter about those who are fortunate.

However it's not binary. There are very lucky wealthy people who've actually just put in sod all work and have simply inherited pots. There are successful people who've been thrown every bad card going and fought their way past them. There are poorer people who've had plenty of opportunity and haven't made the most of things. There are poorer people who've tried bloody hard, constantly, made good choices etc, and been utterly shat on by luck.

It doesnt mean the richer hard working person "doesn't deserve" their fortune, it's just sad for the unlucky poorer person.

I think the statement implies that those who aren't successful haven't worked hard, or that it's as easy to escape poverty etc by simply working hard, which isn't true. The reality is that hard work isn't always rewarded by tonnes of what we would conventially see as successful ie a high wage, and it's too simplistic and ignorant to assume that it's not also a set of other circumstances that often has a bigger effect.

Outside of inheritance - to be wealthy requires hard work.

You can work hard in low paid jobs, but generally, wealthy people do work /have worked a lot harder than those who are just comfortable.

I had every opportunity- but didn't make the most of them. Sometimes it has been eyes open rejection of the harder, better paid route. I am lucky that I had choices. Its not bad luck I didn't take those choices.

When I hear people say they worked hard for what they've got, they generally mean compared to their contemporaries who didn't. (People like me).

I am happy in my life, dh earns a good wage, although we arent rich, bills get paid with a chunk over each month. Of course I occasionally have pangs of jealously for the lifestyle friends with swimming pools and wardrobes full of designer labels and multiple overseas holidays in normal times - but then I am aware neither dh or I wanted the shit side of that life, the long hours doing work we didn't enjoy.

To fund our business, we had to sell our house in the SE,move to a cheaper part of the country, take out a larger mortgage for our house in the new area, take out a large business loan to supplement the equity in the house we sold, work 6 days a week, and bank holidays, take just one weeks holiday a year for 30 years, have some years where we made a good profit, and periods of real stress, interest rates on our loans at over 15% at one time, huge rent and rate increases. We came out with just enough to give us a comfortable retirement. I feel fortunate to have ended up where we are, but lucky? No. We risked everything we had, and in the early 90s recession very nearly lost everything too.

Interesting post thanks @Cornettoninja. Does sound similar

She might be too! On ADs

Who knows...but I see her going to work, exercising, socialising, new man...I struggle to do those things when life is good..let alone when it falls apart!

@Lincslady53

To fund our business, we had to sell our house in the SE,move to a cheaper part of the country, take out a larger mortgage for our house in the new area, take out a large business loan to supplement the equity in the house we sold, work 6 days a week, and bank holidays, take just one weeks holiday a year for 30 years, have some years where we made a good profit, and periods of real stress, interest rates on our loans at over 15% at one time, huge rent and rate increases. We came out with just enough to give us a comfortable retirement. I feel fortunate to have ended up where we are, but lucky? No. We risked everything we had, and in the early 90s recession very nearly lost everything too.

I’m not questioning your experience but I am interested that the language you use implies that you are aware of the contribution of luck.

‘I feel fortunate’ ‘We risked everything’ risk implies no guaranteed outcome = dependent largely on luck.

Im not trying to point score, I’m genuinely interested in how people are framing their experiences.

People just need to take pride in what they have/done and stop comparing themselves!! It's ridiculous!!

Also the risk everything mindset will depend on your social capital...if you did lose everything,do you have friends and family who you could stay with temporarily or would you literally be on the street. If it's the latter, I doubt you'd be so daring

@Beline4u

People just need to take pride in what they have/done and stop comparing themselves!! It's ridiculous!!

Respectfully I disagree, how does anything progress for the better if we ignore the differences in peoples experience?

(For example) We wouldn’t be where we are today in terms of recognising the gender pay gap and the glass ceiling (which still has a way to go) if we only attributed success to hard work.