AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

Exactly this. I came from single parent council estate and have worked my ass off to now earn well into six figures with help from no-one.

Are you surrounded by others like you?

The vast majority of people I know in a similar position to me eg expensive homes, professional jobs, 6 fig incomes all have very similar backgrounds.

I don't think you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder at all btw; I think it's all of the people outraged at you for pointing out that the majority of people who are successful in life had a lot of privilege to begin with who have chips on their shoulders. That's not just a generalisation - as someone who has studied this up to Masters level I know that statistically it's a fact 🤷‍♀️ It's not everyone of course, there are exceptions, but in general there isn't a great deal of social mobility in Britain.

@SkinnyMirror

Acknowledging the role of luck or chance isn't suggesting that things 'fell into your lap'.

It's just acknowledging that in all aspects of our lives there is an element of chance. That includes career success or otherwise.

That includes relationships. A hell of a lot of people take those for granted. Having a long term partner makes things a lot easier financially and in many other ways. I'm 36 with a good job and yet can only afford a one-bed flat (I'm aware a lot of people can't even do that) while other women I know with worse paid jobs can afford a nice 3/4 bed house simply because they're on a dual income.

@longue

Always remember, with money comes responsibility

Someone needs to let the government know that!

They know. They just couldn't give a fuck. Makes it worse. Privilege might bring luck but it doesn't guarantee empathy.

"He started in a low paid job at the bottom and worked his way up. Now at age 43 he’s a Director snd in his way to becoming the Managing Director of the company he works for. I can assure you that luck has nothing to do with it and nothing has just fell into his lap."

But lots of people start at the bottom and work hard and never get promoted. It's really not that easy. He presumably has talent, marketable skills and a certain kind of personality as well as working hard. People don't get promoted for being hard workers alone.

"I'm 36 with a good job and yet can only afford a one-bed flat (I'm aware a lot of people can't even do that) while other women I know with worse paid jobs can afford a nice 3/4 bed house simply because they're on a dual income."

They only own half of it though, and probably the bank owns quite a bit!
But yes obviously life is cheaper as a couple and harder for singles on average.

I get what you mean OP but I think what they mean is that they weren’t just given the job/money/whatever. They did have to work for it. However, yes, most other people also work hard and don’t get to the upper echelons do they?!
It’s about hard work, connections, being in the right place at the right time and all sorts of other factors.
Winning the lottery does not count as working hard to get to where they are though.

Privilege might bring luck but it doesn't guarantee empathy.

evidently

"The scholarship committee isn't flipping a coin or running a random lottery to decide; they're selecting the candidates whose experience and qualifications appeal the most. That's not luck securing the space."

Scholarship are often given on the basis of intelligence or potential, not hard work.

@threatmatrix

I’m sick of hearing this. I worked 80 hours a week with no holiday or time off for 5 years snd now I’m pretty well off. I worked decking hard for what I have.

This makes no sense. You could work 80 hours a week (not recommended and illegal in many countries) in a low waged job and still not earn as much as someone working 30 hours in a better paid job. It depends how much you earn per hour.

Scholarship are often given on the basis of intelligence or potential, not hard work.

Just magically determined intelligence/potential? Or intelligence/potential that is assessed by looking at a body of work?

" You know that literally anyone can go to uni? Yes you have to work hard to get there but anyone can go."

Both these statements are false. You need certain A level grades (or equivalent) to get into university, except for the Open Univeristy.
For some people this is impossible and for others it's easy.

"Just magically determined intelligence/potential? Or intelligence/potential that is assessed by looking at a body of work?"

I don't know about the kind of specific scholarship you're talking about, but scholarships in general are often given on the basis of things like school grades, which are not necessarily the result of hard work, or any work at all for some people.

@vivainsomnia

You're confusing the fact that many people don't do as well financially despite working very hard with the idea that no-one who has done well can put it down to the fact they have worked especially hard.

Don't you see that the very existence of so many people who have worked hard and are still poor disprove the argument that working hard automatically brings success? Working hard can be part of it yes, but not all.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

What about all the people that start at the bottom and work hard to be successful?

Not everyone that goes to uni comes from a safe,stable and needs met home.

I don't know anyone under 50 who's done that. It's extremely difficult these days.

@Glasstabletop

No.

I worked really hard to get where I am against some pretty shitty odds.

I was also incredibly lucky. When people hear about my background I often get comments on how hard I have worked etc etc. It fucks me off no end.

As if my friends who ended up dead or addicts or in dead end jobs just didn't have the gumption to pull themselves up, no they just were not as fucking lucky as I am.

I know people who work way harder than me by every metric and have fuck all to show for it.

I could have written this myself. I have had an awful past, lots of my friends died. I was lucky, I didn't. Yes I made the best of that luck but others didn't have the luck to start with.

I always think of a quote I heard on a TV show "some people don't realise that the only choices some people have are between bad ones, some people have no good options"

@Gwenhwyfar

"He started in a low paid job at the bottom and worked his way up. Now at age 43 he’s a Director snd in his way to becoming the Managing Director of the company he works for. I can assure you that luck has nothing to do with it and nothing has just fell into his lap."

But lots of people start at the bottom and work hard and never get promoted. It's really not that easy. He presumably has talent, marketable skills and a certain kind of personality as well as working hard. People don't get promoted for being hard workers alone.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the bottom in itself. Some people would be happy to start and stay in the "bottom" because they enjoy the work/ it suits their life circs or their personality and work hard in that role.

BUT Because those roles no longer pay enough to live on, not being promoted out of them is seen as a failure when it really shouldn't be.

If they paid well enough, some people with "common or garden privilege" would be happy to stay in them and give people who genuinely have had nothing in terms of this luck thing more chance to push upwards if they wanted to. And to fund education later in life, offer their kids a different outlook to their own.

Blame the government not the man. Unless the man voted them in

I didnt go to uni, didnt have great qualifications but still ended up in london. Bought myself a flat in late 90s. In my job i managed to get a few promotions and have ended up with a salary above 80k I now live in a sought after area of london as my OH also is in a high paid job. However if I wasnt with him I was still in a high paid job living in my own two bed flat in london. So not sure 'luck' was a part. I had the urge to move from where i came from. it opened opportunities and I took them

"Some people would be happy to start and stay in the "bottom" because they enjoy the work/ it suits their life circs or their personality and work hard in that role."

Depends really. Sometimes at the bottom, people get treated badly by their superiors or even by acquaintances who consider them to be of lower social status. It's not just about the money.
But yes, obviously, an ordinary job can sometimes bring more satisfaction than one that appears on paper to be better.

I also think a lot of people are out of touch with how things are currently. I'm late 30s & recognise that things are harder for people in their 20s then they were for me.

I didnt go to uni, didnt have great qualifications but still ended up in london. Bought myself a flat in late 90s.

Buying a property in London in the 90s was a ticket for riches for many regardless of what job you did.

"I also think a lot of people are out of touch with how things are currently. I'm late 30s & recognise that things are harder for people in their 20s then they were for me."

I'm in my 40s. It would be no easier for me to get a mortgage than someone on the same income in their 20s. In fact, probably harder because I have less time to pay it off.
I think that what you mean is that it's harder now than twenty years ago.

Yes sorry that's what I meant. If I had to buy now all things the same I would have been priced out of where I did buy.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Some people would be happy to start and stay in the "bottom" because they enjoy the work/ it suits their life circs or their personality and work hard in that role."

Depends really. Sometimes at the bottom, people get treated badly by their superiors or even by acquaintances who consider them to be of lower social status. It's not just about the money.
But yes, obviously, an ordinary job can sometimes bring more satisfaction than one that appears on paper to be better.

Well, that's what "some" means. It's about choice, surely.

Some people will be treated badly in any employment setting or social arena. Money offers a choice to do something about it. Hence people in better paid jobs taking more perceived risks moving jobs and changing firms and careers.

No money means you're probably stuck. And then you are more likely to be treated badly.

@hairymorag

I didnt go to uni, didnt have great qualifications but still ended up in london. Bought myself a flat in late 90s. In my job i managed to get a few promotions and have ended up with a salary above 80k I now live in a sought after area of london as my OH also is in a high paid job. However if I wasnt with him I was still in a high paid job living in my own two bed flat in london. So not sure 'luck' was a part. I had the urge to move from where i came from. it opened opportunities and I took them

Buying a flat in London in the late 90s was enormously lucky! You must have made a fortune from your flat increasing in value without really doing anything.

They're not necessarily lucky and may have worked very hard to get there. However, many people work very hard all their lives in low paid jobs and end up with very little.
The types who say that no doubt believe everyone else is just lazy, because that's what it implies.