AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

YANBU. People often say this in order to justify why they have a better job than others, when actually they haven't necessarily worked any harder than people in much lower-paid, less impressive-sounding jobs who didn't get the start in life that the person in the impressive job did. Obviously there are exceptions, but in my experience people who actually say "I worked hard to get where I am" usually aren't one of the exceptions...

I went to a Russell group uni and didn't find it hard at all. My dd's are both also at Russell group unis and don't find the work hard probably because we're lucky to have the intellect to cope with the courses. I struggle to think of people who work really hard though, I think it is a clichéd phrase.

@cricketmum84

I think YABU.

I worked hard to get to where I am. Single parent family, no money, council estate, left school at 16.

I had a baby young, worked part time in a supermarket and self funded some courses to get into a new career.

I worked hard at that and my employer funded a degree which I studied for at 24 with 2 children under 4 and also working full time.

I have worked my way up to the top level of my profession over the last 16 years.

So yes I can say I worked bloody hard for it!

I'm not denying you worked hard but having an employer pay for a degree is quite lucky!

My employer paid for my postgraduate qualification but they changed the policy the year after due to budget cuts so my colleague didn't get it funded. Clearly there was an element of luck there.... it doesn't take away from the fact I work hard!

I can’t compare my life to others, because there are so many variables but for me the working hard was maximising what I had but the financial gains came with a price. In my military career I took every promotion exam on the nearest date that I became eligible, I did a barber course as I saw a money making scheme and I did bar work when stationed long enough. I needed to own a property so I never needed to live with my parents again. I got that from working harder than my peers. To get excellent write ups, to get extra shifts. Luck gave me health but decisions played a huge part. It cost in friends, boyfriends, memories and quality of life but I needed the security of my own home.

It's a combination of both. I was lucky to have kind, supportive parents that encouraged me to work hard and value education. I came from a working class background, low income migrant family, first person to go to uni, they weren't aware of the uni application process, I had to find out things for myself. There wasn't any money to support me through university so I stayed at home. I got a loan, found a part time job, worked extra hours, did caring responsibilities for grandparents and worked my arse off to balance everything. I have worked hard to get to where I am, my sheer grit and determination has got me there. It wasn't just luck, I had to make sacrifices to get to this part in my life.

OP your neighbour was tone deaf and crass. If you know people have challenging family circumstances then you should be more humble and discreet.
I work in the City, the combination of bonus culture and competition over salaries does lead to an "because I'm worth it" mentality. People rank their status and performance by money because that how the pay system works. I think those professions where there is a direct linkage between work performance and financial reward do tend to foster the I deserve it because I've worked for it mentality. I know quite a few people who work in the City who volunteer for charities, mentor young people etc. to escape that mindset.

a not an "because..."

YANBU OP, it can be irritating. I have an acquaintance who says she's worked hard for what she's got. She has a house worth around 400k completely paid for by a life on benefits. I've known her for about 30 years during which time she has brought up 2 children, holiday every year, and never earned a penny. She's not averse to quoting the Daily Mail on a variety of subjects. I do find this 'everyone else on benefits is a scrounger but I'm not' attitude annoying.

I paid my own Uni fees with a bank loan (yes, DF did guarantor it but I paid it back). I came out with a piece of paper that I have never used in a professional sense, my jobs have been in different areas. I worked as a temp clerical role for 9months before getting a job in the civil service (before there was a requirement for a degree) and have worked my way up from there. I saved money from my first paycheque - when I was on under 8k per year, and that habit has helped me get where I am now. I did night classes that I paid for myself, a Diploma by night that work refunded the costs when I passed, and managed to get on a course to do a Masters related to work but started that when I had a 9 month old - so it was a tough 2 years juggling everything. And I have always worked incredibly hard at my job. We don't have family near us so all childcare was formal paid childcare that we paid for.

DH had to go to technical college initially, and then uni, covering costs on scholarships. He was able to get a job in the profession of his degree, but his progression has been due to his hard work and extra study.

We saved up and paid for our own house deposit, we did a lot of the work to finish it (from builders' finish) ourselves, painting, tiling, laying out garden, etc. We slept on a mattress on the floor for 4 months, and had no carpets for a year. Much of the big items of furniture were wedding presents (DAunts and DUncles grouped together to get dining table and chairs, DBIL bought our bed, etc).

We had some luck, that we had saved more by the time there was a dip in the market a few years later, so we're able to trade "up" (slightly smaller, 25 years older, house - but closer to city and far nicer suburb) a few years later. So we left our clean and neat finished house and took on another project, doing lots ourselves again and saving up for bigger projects over the years.

We don't use credit, we save for cars (except the first 1 which was necessary for work, before savings were built up), and don't constantly replace them. We only go on holidays using savings, and often holiday in this country rather than far afield - but have done a few long haul destinations over the years too. We live relatively frugally, well within our means. Just because I have more disposable income now doesn't mean I need a designer handbag, but one that works well and will last me a decent amount of time and looks nice for my style. I buy more expensive clothes that last well, I'll reheel/resole shoes before I replace them, we get household items repaired if possible, etc.

There is an element of luck, but mostly our incredible hard work both at work and life, and tendency towards saving rather than spending. But we can now enjoy life too - like deciding to go out for dinner because we've had enough of a bad day and can't face cooking. Or deciding that if an opportunity comes up, we can take savings to go on that fabulous trip. Or set aside some money (and time) for an expensive hobby.

But we also give back as well, volunteering to support organising a number of different activities for young people and professionally. And have also not lost our zest for learning.

Childhoods were not idyllic, not dreadful either, but not a bed of roses. We have a dd with HF ASD/ADHD so needs a lot of extra support. We don't have family living near us to help out, any childcare we had was formal and paid, and any babysitting was paid local teens. I have injuries from well over a decade ago that mean I am in pain a lot of the time, so I've spent a lot on physio and meds over the years.

I had forgotten to add these points to our incredibly lucky looking lives outlined above. To show it's not all luck, sweetness and light, and easy living.

@MessyMissyMe I don't understand why you think you can't be both OP??surely you do realise that there are plebiscite of ppl who are lucky and hard working...they can come hand in hand!

I think people use the term 'luck', quite a lot and it pisses me off.

"Oh, you're lucky to go to uni abroad".

Absolutely true. My parents helped a great deal but I did work 25-30 hours a week all the way through uni.

"Oh, you're lucky you were able to start law university at 25 and change your career"

Yeah - while working full time, waking up at 4.30-5 every single day, studying at night and literally working my ass off. Being tired ALL THE TIME. Totally worth it, but it was never luck.

"Oh, you're so lucky that you lost weight"

No, I'm not actually lucky. I exercised at 5 AM, I went into work with a packed lunch and again, I worked my ass off. Quite literally this time

"Oh, you're so lucky you got rid of your acne"

Sure - if luck means reading hours and hours about acids, acne, combinations of acids and trial & error.

Also, when I say I worked hard for everything, I don't mean that others haven't. It has nothing to do with it

@MessyMissyMe

I went to University RyanReynolds. Didn’t find it particularly hard tbh!

Lucky you.

I think there is more than just hard work and luck. I see people working hard but making bad decisions and I think this has quite a big influence on how life can turn out in the long term.

Bad decision making taken with a short term view is far more important than luck.

As with PP it's a mixture of both. I would never say "I have just been very lucky" to people who compliment me on my successes/awards etc. because it denigrates my achievements and hard work. Similarly I would never just refer to having worked hard to get where I am, because I am conscious that I needed luck AND hard work (and talent).

@readingismycardio

Also, when I say I worked hard for everything, I don't mean that others haven't. It has nothing to do with it

I agree. We work hard and are fortunate to be well off. Partly because we chose professional services type jobs that pay well. Yes, we've had support from our parents to go to uni and appreciate that others can't afford this. But our assets are the result of getting good grades at school, working long hours, saving and making good investments. We wouldn't be as well off if we hadn't been willing to sacrifice in other areas by working long days.

This is absolutely not to say that people on low incomes don't work hard. As I mentioned, my brother works incredibly hard for minimum wage. Other professions such as nursing, teaching and retail isn't as well paid and credit to those people who work long hours for a lower wage.

Saying that you deserve to enjoy your money because you worked hard does not equal you are not well off because you don't work hard. It's an unfair assumption. I suspect most people say it to point out that their money hasn't just landed in their lap from mummy and daddy.

I think saying you worked 'your arse off' at uni is akin to saying you live in a tiny 4 bed detached or you've cut down at Waitrose because you're skint. I'm sure people work hard at uni, but the difference between working hard on something in which you have a high level of interest, which mentally stimulates and challenges you, and which is done on a temporary basis in the clear expectation of long term reward, bares zero resemblance to the drudgery of a lifetime of hard work for many, who never 'make it' in the end. And I say this as a graduate in a professional role who also worked hard at uni and came from a low income family, and recieved no support.

They basically are just LUCKY

They must be really regretting going to university, working hard, taking risks, changing jobs to get ahead rather than stay with what they knew. If only they'd known they were lucky people, they could have done none of that and still ended up where they are.

I have certainly worked hard - harder than a lot of people I know - to get to where I am now. However, I accept that I have also been very lucky.

Some people work incredibly hard but get nowhere. That is not their fault.

Some people are incredibly lucky but squander their opportunities and get nowhere.

Some people are incredibly lucky and work incredibly hard to build on the opportunities that they are given.

Some people are both lazy and unlucky.

And many people fall somewhere in between.

I think the reality is that both hard work and luck are necessary for people to be really successful. It isn't a case of either/or.

Don't have an issue with people saying they have worked hard to get what they have, I have an issue with the belief that hard work is the only denominator and it's only a lack of hard work that ensures people don't have whatever bar has been set.
The issue is that financial contribution is deemed by many the only success worth anything and lack of financial success is somehow linked to lack of hard work, morality, laziness and lack of aspirations, and when only certain avenues are rewarded financially and materialistically, anyone not reaching a certain level is written off.

As a care worker, I work hard, though my hard work is not valued at all, if it were I'd be a lot financially better off, so my financial success is not there, but my role benefits society greatly - as I get satisfaction from helping others, and I'm doing that, then personally I view myself as successful, but the majority disagree because of the contents of my bank account, and some actively mock and belittle because of it, insisting that I could reach their level of success - if only I worked harder.

Don't have an issue with people saying they have worked hard to get what they have, I have an issue with the belief that hard work is the only denominator and it's only a lack of hard work that ensures people don't have whatever bar has been set.

Totally agree @Maverickess. Some of the hardest and most needed jobs in our society are very poorly paid.

I think that the majority of people who are truelly successful have worked hard. They have had circumstances that have facilitated this that were out of their control, but it is not sheer luck. That's not to say people who aren't in the same position are lazy, or that they haven't worked hard too but that shouldnt detract from people's achievements. OP you come across as very jealous.

I have a good job and I have worked hard for it. I have worked harder than a lot of people I know. Again that's not to say they are lazy or not successful in their own fields and I don't think I'm any more deserving of success than them, I don't think they have any desire to do what I've done tbh we are not in competition, but I have worked hard and it's not sheer luck. I've made decisions that others haven't that have enabled me to get to where I am and I'm not going to downplay that

People in my area who are really successful have worked incredibly hard. They've put in more work, time and taken risks that I never would. That is why they are more successful than me in my field. Some of the things my peers have done I think are incredible and I really admire them for it. Again circumstances have probably enabled them to do this, and they have a personality that encourages their work ethic. But they have worked hard, made good decisions and I don't see why they shouldn't be proud of it. I'd rather they were proud of their hard work than bragging about being rich or intelligent or lucky, and I think this is actually why most people say they worked hard. Not to say others are lazy but so it doesn't seem like they are bragging about being rich

There's also an element of smart working, some people are ruthless and will only work where it benefits them and are quite happy to fuck others over. Some people are the complete opposite and burn themselves out trying to help others. Had I been person A I probably would be more successful but I'm more in the middle and I'm comfortable with this, but I could have chosen differently or acted differently

Read your update. Why are you comparing yourself to her in the first place?? How is your experience in any way minimised because she has the finances to afford an expensive holiday. This is obviously jealousy/bitterness and actually maybe you shouldn't be friends with someone when you're judging sentences they make about their own life.

Compared to majority of the world, you're in a better position just by being born/living in the first world. Do you compare yourself to the poor immigrants in this country or the unfortunate elsewhere? So why compare yourself to someone better off?

And if privilege was all it took to have a good life, there wouldn't be any people who grew up in good circumstances but still struggle. Hard work is hard work. There are people who go to the same unis and do the same jobs who don't do well. The same way some able bodied people do less with life than a Paralympian.

As someone said above luck will get you so far as will connections — however other aspects come into play and at the ripe old age of 59 I will use my H as an example. He doesn’t have a degree or A levels but is a complete expert in his niche area. He takes calls and makes them at 10pm, answers emails and queries on holiday, constantly networks and has done ok through sheer perseverance — we’ve never had parental handouts etc.on the other hand im originally from a midlands mining town and the amount of people who wanted and expected a high paying job on the doorstep 9 to 5 with minimum of effort, nothing that inconvenienced them or meant they had to gain further qualifications or god forbid to move away was high. There are indeed some entitled people who say they worked hard who did nothing of the sort but plenty who have indeed worked hard to get where they have at sometimes a significant cost to domestic or social life