AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

YABU. Some people work ridiculously long hours to make a success of themselves. It’s not always luck.

@Kiwirose

Me and my bestie both went to uni. I studied nursing and he studied computer science. He earns over £100, 000 per year I work as a clinical nurse specialist and take home £30, 000. I get pissed off when he says "I'm at the top of my game" "well I'm at the top of my game". "I worked hard to get here" he says. "I worked hard to get to my position too". In all honesty I have more post grad qualifications than he does.

Basically life isn't fair and some jobs get paid more than others - maybe that is just, maybe that is unjust. But to argue that it is because you work hard that you get massively rewarded is frustrating for others how also work hard but their jobs don't pay as much.

The wages for my job have been going backwards in real terms for the last 10 years and the working conditions have been getting harder.

Hard graft has nothing to do with this argument. The majority of people work hard.

But why would you see salary as the only reward one gets from hard work and the only one representative of how much work one has put in? Your best friend earns 3 times your salary doing something he loves? So what his hard work means he earns a wage that suit him.

Your hard work means you have various post-grad qualifications in a field you love. It means you are highly-trained to work in a specific job only people with your training can do. It means you (hopefully) does a job you love doing. Those are your rewards for working hard. Maybe a higher pay check would be nice but you have earned the «I have worked hard to be where I am at» as much as him. Your/his paycheck shouldn’t factor in. You both worked hard towards different goals and now both are reaping the rewards of your hard work and efforts in your own fields. You aren’t in competition at all and he can acknowledge his hard work regarding where he is at in life without it being an insult on you and what you earn and vice versa.

People take offense to people saying they have worked hard because they think it implies others don’t and they automatically assume people earning a higher paycheck look down on people who earn less and such statement is proof of this. But it’s not. One can acknowledge their own efforts and successes in a factual way without it being a dig at others and without it implying people who don’t earn the same aren’t hard-working.

You said it yourself, you are at the top of your game in your field and worked really hard to get to where you are at and be as qualified as you are. Congratulations! Don’t let a paycheck (whether yours or somebody else’s) undermine that and keep in mind that you celebrating your hard work isn’t a dig towards anyone.

@CandyLeBonBon

I think it's important here, to define what is meant by 'luck'

In career development terms we define luck ( or chance) as something out of our direct control.

For example, government policy. Lots of people on this thread have commented that they were the first in their family to go to university or that they were from a working class background but attended university...... nobody is denying that those people worked hard to get into university but the fact that they even have the opportunity to go to university is possibly due to government policies around social mobility and access to Higher Education.

My dh went to one of the best private schools in the country via the assisted places scheme. There is no way his parent would have been able to afford it if that scheme didn't exist. He still had to pass the entrance exam but he was lucky such a scheme existed.

We also acknowledge that how a person deals with that luck or chance opportunity is what makes the difference. At no point would I ever say success, or otherwise, is purely down to luck. I just acknowledge that there are things that are out of our control which can have an impact on our lives - that could be in a big way or it could be negligible, but it does exist!

I interpret "worked hard" in a different way. Whether through long hours, in education or whatever. Not working hard would be being wealthy through inheritance or perhaps being given a directorship in your parents' company by virtue of your family relationship, not your skills.

And yes, we're well off because we worked hard. I worked very long hours in investment banking and was rewarded accordingly. I also had the benefit of a middle class upbringing and could go to Uni.

But it's not the same as assuming that people on low wages don't work hard. My brother has a backbreaking job working long hours in a warehouse and is paid the minimum wage.

@bogoffmda

inherited intellect - wtf Some people win in the gene game and some people don't

This current desperate desire to diss what people have achieved through their own hard work, sometimes help sometimes luck and make out they were privileged in some way so they are not as worthy as others who perceive their life is harder - is really starting to get on my nerves.

Sorry that facts get on your nerves.

I understand that I have been lucky. I still work hard but don't have a massive ego to pretend it's all down to hard work. It's what it is. Why lie or pretend otherwise?

To me, someone who says they worked hard for X means that it wasn't given to them. It doesn't mean that people who don't have X haven't worked hard.

I think it can also mean that they feel they deserve or have earned X by virtue of their hard work. There may be some luck involved, as there is in practically everything in life, starting with winning the lottery of conception, but few succeed only because of luck.

There is definitely an element of people who are financially successful who think that anyone who isn't, must just be lazy and not prepared to work. They dismiss structural issues that can limit success on a prejudiced assumption it is down to lack of hard work.
Most reasonable people know this isn't true, but this is more about the people who have this attitude than a battle to dismiss hard work or negate privaleged.
Everyone is where they are because of a combination of factors, luck and hard work (or not) being only two of them. Success is never purely financial and is measured differently by everyone.
What is true though is resenting anyone else for what they have doesn't get you anywhere and equally judging people for what you perceive they don't have has no benefit either. I actually think the luckiest people are those that find happiness in whatever they are doing. This is very rarely based on the income it generates.

I think I'm lucky & work hard but not that hard, my life is pretty easy. Some of the people on this thread talking about the adversity they overcame to get into their positions highlight how little adversity I've had to overcome.

As a kid who was beaten and a young carer and was in and out of the care system.
I would say I have worked hard to get where I am and would not have considered myself lucky at the age if 18 when I went to university with absolutely zero help from anyone.

Omg this annoys me too. Some people work very hard and some people get very rich/high status etc. The two are completely unrelated.

So OP, are you going to tell your kids not to bother learning anything or not to try and achieve because it’s ALL down to luck? Didn’t think so.

Yes luck plays a part but sometimes the luck comes because you spot and take opportunities and make good decisions.

I have a friend who’s always complaining about her lot in life. She will never admit though that at every fork in the road, she takes the easy route decision. She doesn’t think long term. Her current situation is directly related to a string of poor decisions starting from leaving school at 16 because she wanted to earn straight away so she could go out at the weekends. Boyfriends, jobs, even buying a car she seems to actively make the crap decision. However, she will sit there and claim I’ve had more opportunities than her. No mate, I just think ahead a bit, think of potential consequences and opportunities and sometimes that means I have to choose the harder option.

I have never said that phrase to anyone but I suppose the differing route between DH and myself route to success is glaring.

He is a white middle class male who comes from a wealthy family, also privately educated. Very privileged upbringing. His family had a housekeeper and second home in the countryside.

I’m the DD of an immigrant who arrived with almost nothing, one of six dc who didn’t get much materially or spiritually as my parents worked ridiculously long hours. I was working from 13 and paid my way through University totally. I studied part time and worked full time.

Some people work hard and some people are lazy and some make it and some don’t. So there is that element of luck but just as much there are peoples emotional reactions to scenarios and the head versus heart choices we all make, consciously and sub consciously.

My reaction to this vastly depends on the context of delivery.

I most often hear it in response to schemes that support underrepresented to marginalised people access careers. In that situation I get pissed off by it because its dismissive of genunie barriers that people have. It suggests people in those groups just aren't working hard enough, which is bullshit.

But there are other contexts where I don't mind it. If someone has been asked what they credit their success to and hard work is part of their response, then fair enough! I like to hear a bit of humility and recognition of the opportunities, skills and sponsors that have given people a leg up too as that's more interesting.

My first career was in a highly competitive industry. I got into it because I could do an unpaid internship & was supported by my family.
After dc I didn't want such a demanding f/t career so gave it up.
I changed careers as still wanted to do something & initially my salary didn't cover childcare but it didn't matter as we could afford it as a family. I have been promoted 3 times in this role so now I earn a good salary (I still work p/t). One reason I've progressed is because I work hard but I've also taken on extra days & responsibilities & made myself available when needed. I can do this because we can pay for any childcare/clubs &/or my parents are very hands on. I can't deny my parents support in all forms has been inconsequential.

YABU as it's not always how you think

It can be luck, it can be hard work, it's mostly a mix

I didn't go to university, parents split up, my first marriage ended in divorce

I worked for £1 hour (standard YTS type rate) from age of 15. Learned from people above me as much as I could, put in 60 hrs a week and gradually moved up the ladder.
Eventually was at the stage of being poached/paid to stay - which is a lucky position to be in, but I was in it because of me

DH is lucky to have a property business - but bought it after he was made redundant for the third time - made the best of a crap situation/lost pension

@MessyMissyMe

I went to University RyanReynolds. Didn’t find it particularly hard tbh!

Well done OP just the reaction you wanted (and expected)...top trumps .......FWIW I'm in the last category, left school, no O levels (yes that old) but now top job major 6 figures and doing very well thank you...and guess what? YES I WORKED VERY HARD

What a load of rubbish.
I paid my own fees through uni at 32 with two small kids to get into a professional role.
That was not luck.

But it's not luck here, though, is it -- it's that you both made different decisions.
@gwenneh It is luck that his job pays more (or economics or maybe just a fact of life)

@CommanderBurnham we are both full filled, although like many NHS workers we have had the hardest 18 months of our careers. I don't resent the money (although I would like not to struggle so much). I absolutely resent the argument of "I worked hard to get where I am "

@bevm72yellow

Working "smart" is better than working hard. Spotting opportunities and taking them even it means using those around you to do so and not always returning the favour they have done. It is about making choices. People are not always honest in saying "they worked hard"...most people work hard but get benefits/advantages from others on the way to get their success. Having a university education is no measure of how your life will have success.....some absolutley useless degrees out there which to do lend to make some employable.

This is the key. Working ‘hard’ is not necessarily something to be applauded. Taking calculated risks, be willing to make mistakes be learn from them, spending time to learn new skills rather than going out/watching Netflix, stepping outside your comfort zone to take opportunities is usually what successful people tend to do well.

By the way, going to university is not a measure of hard work or even intelligence. There is a generation of graduates that wasted time and money on Mickey Mouse degrees aka media studies etc

I wasnt supported by my parents at all. In fact they were anti university/professional as they saw this as stuck up/middle class. I made some sacrifices to qualify in a profession. Some years later due to structural changes in that profession beyond my control I found my qualifications devalued in favour of younger players who had a degree, I returned to education and purely due to my own efforts gained a 1st class degree, Masters with distinction and a doctorate. No help from parents or family and courtesy only of my own abilities and resillience. Had a cereer as an academic and eventually established my own business. I dont owe anything to anyone else and am justly proud of what I achieved.

I think it's a shame people feel the need to justify their success in this way because others are jealous

@Kiwirose

But it's not luck here, though, is it -- it's that you both made different decisions. *@gwenneh* It is luck that his job pays more (or economics or maybe just a fact of life)

@CommanderBurnham we are both full filled, although like many NHS workers we have had the hardest 18 months of our careers. I don't resent the money (although I would like not to struggle so much). I absolutely resent the argument of "I worked hard to get where I am "

How is it luck? Where is the random element here that makes it luck?

No one rolled a die and decided nurses make £30k and computer programmers make £100k. These things were decided by the value a capitalist society placed on the skills involved, chiefly determined by the amount of money the provider of those skills makes for a company.

Is that unfair? Depends on whether you're someone who needs acute care or someone who needs a critical piece of software. Is it luck? No.

I completely agree. I had all the support & resources growing up, it’s not that school was super easy, but as OP said I had very little I needed to worry about. Likewise at uni, no student loans etc. I got to do activities when I was younger that meant I could work in the industry I do because we could afford to (that I enjoy).

I think it’s also hard to underestimate the depth of security you get from being married & knowing you have two wealthy families behind you. Neither DH or I has had money from family for 15+ years but just knowing that they are there makes you more free to take risks with less stress. We will never miss a mortgage payment for example, we might have to sell our house if we both lost our jobs and couldn’t find work for a year, but our families would keep us solvent until we could sell it for a good price and pull the equity out. Underlying financial stress is an unbelievable burden.