AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

Successful people usually have to work very hard. I don't understand your point

What @HelloMissus said

One of my sons has complex special needs and the other doesnt. They both work very hard however one attends a school that doesnt offer gcses. Who knows how life will pan out for each of them but there is only so far being creative, taking risks bouncing back and those sorts of things can take you.

If we were taught in school or college exactly what you can expect to earn according to industry or occupation it would be hugely helpful and help inform choices. I went to uni then retrained so working full time, attending college and working voluntarily too. It was really hard work for around 6 years and I do sometimes say to my partner 'ive worked hard' which I think he finds annoying but it
was hard graft! we don't have pots of money though and are kind of up against it at times. I do love my job now though even if the cash flow isn't great, it was worth the hard work. If someone said I was lucky I think I'd agree, lucky to do a job I love

@KeyboardWorriers

That's your experience. I said "everyone I know who is successful is not directly impacted by illness". That is my experience.

I believe you can work exceptionally hard to overcome adversity. But I also know some 20 year olds who have had such a poor education they haven't even heard of some of these careers that people say they have worked so hard to achieve. I recently had to explain what a solicitor was to a man in his early 20's, he works very hard in his 0 hour contract labour job. He's a hard worker, just unfortunately not very clever and poorly educated therefore no amount of hard work will make him successful.

Theres adversity that can be overcome with hard work, there is also adversity that can't.

I agree. I went to uni and worked (but not particularly hard). The reason I was able to go to uni was because prior to that I had no caring responsibilities and my parents didn't need me to be contributing an income to the family. I was also encouraged in my education at every point up to that. Realistically I'm lucky that I got the chance to 'work hard' at uni; it was what I wanted to do.

My close friend was a carer for her parents throughout her teens. She started uni but didn't last until Christmas because her family just couldn't manage without her (both financially and practically). On her return she took an entry level admin job at a local company and she worked very hard both at work and at home for a shit wage for a long time. We're mid thirties now and she's undoubtedly worked much harder than me (essentially running their hr dept) but she's only just beginning to see a salary that's comparable to a graduate's salary whereas I've been getting that since the age of 22.

Two things stand out for me there's a difference between working hard and working smart (ie a way that will see you financially rewarded for your efforts) and many people, myself included, need to be taught the difference because we weren't brought up by people who understood that hard work alone isn't enough - ie a cleaner works bloody hard but probably won't be compensated as well as say a solicitor.

Secondly many of us (me again) think that if we work hard, don't make a fuss and are good at our job our boss will notice and adjust our salary accordingly. This is not the case, it's actually incredibly common for people who are competent at their job to get more and more responsibility heaped on them without seeing any adjustment to their salary.

YANBU

I was in my 30s before I finally realised that this is not a meritocracy.

I’m from a working class background, went to Uni and now have a professional qualification. It took me years to reflect on the backgrounds of others I went to Uni with and compare it with where they are now. There will be the odd exception, but I’ve no doubt that there’s a positive correlation between their backgrounds and financial success.

But for years, because we’d all been through the same degree, I thought we’d all put in the same level of “hard work” and it must be something I was doing wrong that was the reason for my modest career progression. Yep, I’m definitely bitter.

Obviously some people fall on hard times through no fault of their own. But the majority of people in menial jobs simply didn’t pay enough attention at school.

I think "luck" is a highly subjective term and I tend to find it snowballs. You get one opportunity, if you take it you get another and another. Luck begets luck I suppose. People's notion of hard work differs. You can work your arse off as a cleaner but never have the opportunity to do anything else. Hard work is just one part of success

But the majority of people in menial jobs simply didn’t pay enough attention at school.

🙄

I don’t mind people having wealth but I hate it when they say it’s because they worked hard. Why can’t they acknowledge the huge amount of luck and opportunity they’ve had to get it? Plenty of people work hard but don’t earn enough to take advantage of house prices rises and save for their old age etc. I’m doing ok now, but came from a very poor family-my dad worked really hard , but he was a bus driver who had been orphaned at 14-his mother was illiterate who worked hard as a skivvy. So I’ve seen both sides of the coin and I can tell you my well off friends have drive, ambition and work very hard but have had an enormous amount of luck and been in the right place at the right time.

@5329871e

Obviously some people fall on hard times through no fault of their own. But the majority of people in menial jobs simply didn’t pay enough attention at school.

Jesus. Clueless. Absolutely clueless

If you called me lucky I would be extremely pissed off. I left home at 16 with nothing but my clothes, having scraped through my GCSEs, unable to cope living with my suicidal mother any longer. I have a successful business which came about after a fall put me in a wheelchair for 14 months. Is that lucky? Or was it just me starting a business because I knew I would never be able to work in a regular job again? And having enough desire to make it a success in order to feed and clothe my son. Yes it means when things are busy I am found working 15 hour days 6-7 days a week, but it's all luck of course. I have been trapped in two abusive relationships, one resulting in me having a child at 22 and then being a single mother with no financial support from anyone.
On the other hand my sister has been funded through university three times, has one degree and struggles to hold down her very decent job, taking regular handouts from my mum, and she's a drug addict. Maybe she's been extremely unlucky, even though she's been given everything I haven't.
You make your own luck and you make your own decisions.

Working "smart" is better than working hard. Spotting opportunities and taking them even it means using those around you to do so and not always returning the favour they have done. It is about making choices. People are not always honest in saying "they worked hard"...most people work hard but get benefits/advantages from others on the way to get their success. Having a university education is no measure of how your life will have success.....some absolutley useless degrees out there which to do lend to make some employable.

@5329871e

Obviously some people fall on hard times through no fault of their own. But the majority of people in menial jobs simply didn’t pay enough attention at school.

But people have different school experiences for a number of reasons. Surely at school age a child cant he held fully responsible for their future. They rely on adults.

One school kid could have parents that discipline their child if they mess about in class, parents who sat and did home work with their kids or helped them revise. They could have teachers who give 1-1 support if they notice the student is struggling and put behavioral plans in place. They could have a nice learning environment with no hostility or bullying.

You could have another child who's parents dont give a crap how they do at school, and there may be a lot of behavioural challenged kids in the class so they have an unpleasant learning environment and various other negative variables which affect a child's engagement in school.

A child has very little control over those things, that's where luck and privilege come in.

I was first in my family to go To uni. Came from a scheme. single parent family
Worked throughout, even on placements, and had no financial help No bank of mum.
It was hard and my peers were children of consultants etc and they financially well supported

I'm always astounded at the number of people who were given a private education and don't acknowledge that they had a tremendous head start.

I should also add at 21 years old I had £22,000 of debt and bailiffs hammering on my door. Just in case you think I didn't fit the "poverty" profile along with illness, disability and trauma.

It annoys me too. Billions of people around the world work hard every day.
When people use it as a way to justify how/why they have so much money “...but he/she worked so hard for it” like everyone should aspire to work just as hard as them.
I often think making it big is about luck/being there at the right time. Sure it can also mean hard work but that’s not the only way to be successful, otherwise nearly everyone would be.

I'd be annoyed if you called me and DH lucky. We struggled through years of near poverty and worked very hard to get where we are (and no neither of us went to Uni). Working hard means putting in all the hours not just working hard 9-5 after all. I'm aware there are many people who work very long hours and haven't been as successful and that is partially down to luck but I would never say we were lucky to be in a good position now. Of all my friends DH and I have worked the hardest and struggled the most financially to get where we are.

YANBU OP - because it isn't JUST hard work or else there would be a lot more people earning lots of money and living in lovely houses/area.

Luck plays a part too

I actually agree with op and @BobLemon there is structural & institutional prejudice and barriers that prevent able school pupils and uni students progressing. It’s subtle, and you have to know the code. It’s ingrained in manners, conscious and unconscious behaviours, hidden exclusionary behaviours that conspire against the working classes.

@MessyMissyMe

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

I understand where you are coming from - but we each have the ability to make ourselves better through different means. I had 2 alcoholic parents, no support growing up, no money and I still went to university, despite being told i would never amount to anything.

After a long time figuring out what I 'want to do with the rest of my life' I'm now studying counselling. It's been a long time coming and it will still be a long time coming in 2 years time when I get the qualification. Don't let background determine what you are owed in life. You deserve just as much as the next person, but if I say I worked hard for it, it's because I did and not because anyone helped me, but because no-one helped me. And I did it all by myself.

@5329871e

Obviously some people fall on hard times through no fault of their own. But the majority of people in menial jobs simply didn’t pay enough attention at school.

I have no words for the level of disgust I feel towards this comment.

Luck always plays a part in everything. That doesn't mean that success comes because a person is lucky. There's plenty of people with better opportunities than I had that squandered them. There's plenty of people who won't put in the hard work because they're comfortable where they are. Usually, the only people that talk about others being just lucky are the pretty lazy people who like to justify their own situation.

Of course, your measure of success might be different from mine. I will never be rich, I wasn't born in the right country or in the right family. But I have been successful in that I have a stable career and want for nothing (again this depends on expectations though). You sound pretty angry to be honest.