AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

Agree with the OP. We're reasonably well off, own a large house mortgage free and seven figure savings, and most of it has been luck. Neither of us are anything special - especially me! My husband's had a successful career but he's the first to admit that he hasn't worked particularly hard and had all of the support and encouragement he could have wanted from his parents whilst setting up his first business, a lot of it has been being in the right place at the right time. We try and reconcile this by living our lives kindly, donating to charity, paying it forward wherever me can but if you think either of us has worked harder than the single mum somewhere working three jobs to support her children you would be mistaken.

Both my grandmothers went to university. My family put huge value on education. And I worked hard. But I know that being pushed academically by my parents, having a stable home environment and not lacking food or clothes or books and having an expectation of achievement gave me a leg up that others didn’t have.

I still work very hard, but I think that carers on minimum wage also work very hard and I’m lucky to be able to work in a less physically demanding and higher paid job.

You make your own luck.

And with regards to work, working hard increases that luck.

That's why people who work harder than their peers are "lucky" enough to get promotions and larger bonuses.

I don't just think it's necessarily the "working hard" which changes peoples fortunes, it's how you cut your cloth.

There's 2 similar aged people in my office. 1 goes on 3 foreign holidays a year (in non-covid times) and eats out multiple times a week, has a nice car but also complains that they can't save a deposit for a home.

Their colleague on the same salary, camps in the UK for holidays, eats a packed lunch, cycles to work and lives very frugily.

Then when "saver" colleague purchased her first (very compact flat) "spender" colleague bitched that she'd probably got help from her parents (whose only contribution was a fridge).

Now "saver" colleague's outgoings per month are even less as her mortgage is cheaper than "spender" colleague's rent and the disparity will increase.

The property "saver" purchased will go up in value (& rents will probably rise) and "spender" will be even less likely to be able to purchase one.

Now that definitely isn't luck, but would the "spenders" in life recognise that?

It's always a combination. I dont think people understand what constitutes as luck sometimes. I follow a business guru on Instagram and she gets very angry and defensive when the word luck is mentioned in relation to her success.

Anyone who is healthy, educated and mentally stable is lucky.

I have a friend who has mild learning difficulties, mild enough that unless you spent substantial time with her, you wouldn't notice. But significant enough that she would not be able to have a career, she doesn't have the problem solving skills, emotional intelligence, understanding of social conduct and organisational skills to have a career. Every few months I see her shes on about the next big dream, to be a film director, have a theatre school, to be a journalist or song writer. No matter how hard she works, it probably wont happen.

I have a family member who has an autistic son who is now 15. He requires full time supervision, carers, every outing he goes on takes significant planning as he is large and aggressive, he self harms and tries to choke himself. She was a dietitian before working on a career in research, the only possible way she could return to her career if he was to go into full time residential care.

I also know someone who it has taken them 7 years to complete a 3 year degree because they had epilepsy and spent half their week sleeping of a seizure. Shes got that far, but progressing much further is the next challenge.

Those people no matter how hard they work, due to the bad hand they've been dealt, will not achieve success in the conventional way and have not had luck on their side.

Everyone I know who is successful is not directly affected by illness, disability, trauma or poverty. Yes they work long hours daily, but they've never had anything stopping them working long hours and it's always been enabled and supported by those around them.

And theres always been an element of right place and right time. Out of the 2 most successful people I know, when one decided to buy a premise for their business at that exact time the most perfect and well suited location became available, any other year and she would not have had half the success. The other successful person I know works as a contractor offshore, he became aware of this job as a teen as he went on holiday at one of the stop off places the workers go to, he got chatting to some blokes, got some insider tips on these niche and well paying careers on the rigs, he then geared all of training to getting this particular role when he was older. Yes he worked hard, but had he never met these people who sold their life style, told him exactly how they got to where they were and how he could do it too, it wouldn't have happened.

Luck always plays a part.

It’s not controversial to acknowledge that

• there are people working very hard in this country for shit pay
• people on shit pay in hard jobs have probably had not much luck and / or not many privileges in life

@Cazzovuoi

I am sick of seeing this. I worked hard, was not lucky. Born into working class, didn’t go to Uni, no financial support, no handouts.

I worked my arse off to be wealthy.

It's not just about money.

I was born into a very well off family, privately educated and went to uni. However, I lost my mother when I was very young and had to live with my alcoholic emotionally abusive father and it caused me problems which affected my entire future.

I am not successful. Money isn't everything

@SnarkyBag

Some people work hard and become highly paid. Some people work hard and are poorly paid. Some people have shit luck and lots of hurdles but still become successful. Some people have no hurdles and opportunities available but don’t become highly paid in their jobs 🤷‍♀️

This.

You do seem to have a chip on your shoulder op.

I went to university, wasn't the first in my family to do so but grew up impoverished. Worked damn hard to get there, against expectations and while dealing with things that most people don't experience in a lifetime. I started funding myself before I left home, and have worked stupid hours my entire career.

I recognise my privilege over other people in this country but I assure you every penny I've earned has been with blood and sweat, against the odds, 5x over.

@Supersimkin2

If hard work made you rich, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.

In the UK your house will make more money than you ever could.

I love this comment. It speaks to the lack of social mobility you have if your parents aren't/weren't law abiding, supportive people. There is less social mobility now. I am lucky and have worked my arse off. I see those who aren't to lucky in police custody. Lots of them are bright and speak to me decently in what are very difficult circumstances for them. They work hard just to exist. Every day is a struggle.

People who consider high paid people 'just lucky' tend to have no f*g clue what does this job actually involves and what it took to get there

@weresouth

am sick of seeing this. I worked hard, was not lucky. Born into working class, didn’t go to Uni, no financial support, no handouts.

I worked my arse off to be wealthy.

Are you the norm though? How many of your wealthy peers have a similar background?

All of my friends have similar stories to mine, working class background, a couple went to Uni, others straight to work.

Now in our middle ages we're all in management or expert roles.

Ironically the kids at school who were "lucky" enough to be good at sports are rarely at the same level (I do like a snoop on FB)

@MessyMissyMe I worked my ass off to get where I am today-I say that because it's true. My dysfunctional parents should never have been afflicted on myself and my siblings. They paid for one year of university and I worked minimum wage jobs and took on a student loan to complete my nursing education. I have worked 23 years in high stress nursing jobs, mostly 12-hour shifts on weekends and holidays. I found nursing school very difficult (as it should be) and would laugh at any suggestion otherwise.

We have all made poor choices at some points in our lives. Luck is to have a safety net of supportive parents or partner so that one little mistake is not devastating.

"Boy nobody is denying that hard work is key. "

I am! There are plenty of jobs where working hard will get you absolutely nowhere.

I get the sentiment of what your saying. But there’s a lot wrong with other things you’ve said too. I worked my ass off through uni, one or two part time jobs at all times, self supported and v v skint. Went too far away to study to go home during holidays etc. But I actively picked a degree that both suited my interests and would almost definitely lead to a good career and good earnings. I don’t call that lucky, I call that fortunate. I did work hard to do that. But I wouldn’t go around saying that, nor do I think people who don’t earn the same as me don’t work hard.

Hmm I dunno.

I am probably a person who you look at (and other people look at) and think oh you had everything on a plate.

I am middle class, uni educated, have a business, own my home, etc. etc.

What you don't know is that 3 years ago I had psychosis, was sectioned, lost my job, used all my savings, nearly lost my home, went from a professional job to only managing part time in a minimum wage job, worked every evening & weekend to start my own business. Literally nearly every waking hour for multiple years to get where I am today.

I have by no means 'made it', I still have a mortgage to pay. Just found out I am pregnant so no idea how we are going to work this in the following years. But compared to others my age I am in a pretty good position, despite a serious setback 3 years ago.

So I am proud of that, and I did work hard to turn things around and get to where I am.

You honestly have no idea what other people have or haven't been through, regardless of their class or education. So sorry YABU

YABU

anyone can go to university in this country. If you're on a low income you get a loan and grants which is actually a better deal than having to pay upfront, from experience.

I really only got that far into the OP.

@undetetected

YABU

anyone can go to university in this country. If you're on a low income you get a loan and grants which is actually a better deal than having to pay upfront, from experience.

I really only got that far into the OP.

You still have to be accepted. Only the Open University has open access.

If there is one thing we should have learnt from this pandemic and the fall out from Brexit is how much we are reliant on a lot of poorly paid workers from lorry drivers to care and shop workers who have all worked extremely hard to keep the country going. I have deliberately missed out NHS workers as not decrying the contribution they have made I think a lot of them are well paid and have and continue to discounts etc.

Ooh I have a relative who is the first to tell people how they should just "go to work" , "its easy to get a job", "why would you rent, it's just wasted money" "everyone should just pass their test and drive, who would want to get a bus " etc etc

Failing to recognise, her wealthy parents bought her first 2 cars, their parents paid for their failed uni, twice, their parents paid a massive deposit on their house, her patents employed her for years, her parents paid to set up her business, but yeah everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps...like she did

It would just be nice of they realised their privilege before handing out their pearls of wisdom

@undetetected

YABU

anyone can go to university in this country. If you're on a low income you get a loan and grants which is actually a better deal than having to pay upfront, from experience.

I really only got that far into the OP.

Anyone can go to uni? What a fucking ridiculous statement...

I grew up in an immigrant community. Many of the families were poor, parents lacking a western education. Families lived with other families in 3 bedroom terraced properties. We faced racism often. Some of us had really strict parents, maybe even abusive.
When I look at the kids I grew up with, I can count amongst them dentist, accountant, IT specialist, pharmacist, chiropodist, lecturer and teachers. I can also see those who didn’t do well. The ones who did, really worked hard. I don’t think it’s fair to minimise how much hard work it took for us to do well.

All of my friends have similar stories to mine, working class background, a couple went to Uni, others straight to work.

Now in our middle ages we're all in management or expert roles.

But statistically you recognise that's unusual to have so many wealthy peers from working class backgrounds?

"You are still 60% more likely to get a professional job if you come from a privileged rather than working class background."
"And if in that professional job people from working class backgrounds in professional jobs earned less than their more privileged counterparts"

anyone can go to university in this country. If you're on a low income you get a loan and grants which is actually a better deal than having to pay upfront, from experience.

Yeah, it's not that simple.

Everyone I know who is successful is not directly affected by illness, disability, trauma or poverty

Bollocks. Just in my own life I have experienced homelessness, trauma, severe disabling illness, tragedies...

And if I look around my (very successful) team and peers there are people who have worked their way out of poverty, worked through or following severe illness, overcome profound trauma, or live with chronic disabling conditions.

Of course luck/privilege/good fortune pays a part. But so does facing an obstacle and refusing to be defeated by it. A determination to succeed against the odds. A willingness to find creative solutions to overcome them.

Not that people who don't have success aren't hard working. But the myth that successful people have led charmed lives is a dangerous one as it might make people who gave challenges give up rather than rise to them.n