AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

I think rather than say they have worked hard, because there is no doubt than any form of manual work is physically harder. It would be more prudent to say that they have studied hard. Obviously coming from a wealthy background helps and provides more opportunities.

I think there is resistance to acknowledging the good fortune that comes an individual's way - be that good health, good intellect, good family, lack of trauma, having access to good food, water and health care, not being born in a war zone.

Why though?

I only have a home because my parents helped with a deposit, regardless of how hard I worked it would have been impossible otherwise.

Most healthy people in the western world have the same baseline of ‘luck’. Good healthcare, access to education, a home. Should everyone acknowledge that, whether they’ve done well in life or not then?

Do you really think that? Wow

@RamblingJenny

100% also very much about your parents role/lack of.

OH parents peddled him to study. Kept him focussed (a little too much at times) but he’s not naturally gifted at anything per say. He won’t mind me saying this he says it himself. But he’s got a good job as he’s had lots of direction, encouragement, support. Help with interviews etc.

I on the other hand, I have a natural talent for a certain area, I want to say this without sounding big headed. Not saying I’m gifted or incredible but find this area easy but my parents just left me to it. Did not encourage it or guide it.
I failed constantly as I couldn’t deal with any obstacles. Now we have kids I can see how much I’ve been let down. They are not bad parents by any means, but they did not do their job to the best of their ability and I can honestly say that I’d be in the career I wanted had they given me the same dedication and commitment that my OH’s parents gave him.

Oh Rambling! Is it too late for you to train now or, if so, train in something similar?

It’s a different type of work but I wouldn’t say that a lawyer working all hours isn’t working hard for example.

They do work hard but look at pay for a partner in a MC law firm. How many do you think come from an impoverished background?

The point is it's very hard to work yourself out of poverty no matter how hard you work.

I don't entirely agree - there is some luck but many successful people also have to give up things or make certain concessions others wouldn't.

I have a reasonably good job and am financially secure. I've not worked hard in as much as I was blessed with wonderful, supportive parents who encouraged me to achieve, and a very good memory (I'm not clever as such, I just remember things more easily than most people) which made it easy to do well at school,/ uni and at work. On the flip side, my parents died before I'd started my career, I've been a single parent for many years and always worked FT and long hours in the office because WFH wasn't a thing then, without which I wouldn't be where I am.

For my DP who left school at 16, all his career success has been through sheer hard work, self belief and starting at the bottom, he spent 10 years doing minimum wage type jobs before eventually getting a foot in the door of his chosen career (at which he's entirely self taught), and another 10 - and a relocation to the other end of the country - before he earned over £30k. He is doing very well now and has a 6 figure income but he absolutely deserves every bit of it. Many of his family/ school friends are still in the same town, on fairly low salaries having worked for the same firms for 20-25 years, because they never stepped out of their comfort zone or took risks, or were prepared to give up time/ money/ change lifestyle to pursue other opportunities.

But to state it is “just luck” as the OP did is a pretty simplistic way of seeing the world. There’s a difference between working hard - say a daily grind - and pushing yourself to go way beyond what is expected of you at work/in uni etc. If your degree was so easy OP you probably weren’t challenging yourself!

I am sick of seeing this. I worked hard, was not lucky. Born into working class, didn’t go to Uni, no financial support, no handouts.

I worked my arse off to be wealthy.

Sorry OP, you want some salt on that chip?
My DH was fsm, long term unemployed dad, mum never worked and spent bill money on cheap trinkets, parents never went to parents eves and disparaged education. He left school at 16 with 1 O level ( having worked since age 12 part time ) worked his arse off, went to night school, uni as mature student and is a leading expert in his medical field ( having done years and years of ridiculous hours - first weekend as junior doctor started at 8 am Fri and was on call all weekend, working right through until mon teatime) He does not have good physical health having a chronic health condition, he has the insight to recognise to keep his mental health in check he needs to exercise and eat eat well.
I had a more apparently “good” upbringing but my single mum was emotionally abusive with horrendous tempers where we crept around the house teying to placate her. I was the kid with loo roll stuffed in my knickers as she always “forgot” to buy me sanitary protection and I have no money to buy my own.
Neither of us would ever be so crass as to talk about hard work getting us where we are, but it is bloody true.
I feel obliged to compare a recent thread where the OP said there were no jobs, but then it turned out she wouldn’t do care, couldn’t work these hours, didn’t want to do x, and I wonder it she and you come from the same ideology

am sick of seeing this. I worked hard, was not lucky. Born into working class, didn’t go to Uni, no financial support, no handouts.

I worked my arse off to be wealthy.

Are you the norm though? How many of your wealthy peers have a similar background?

Yes, it can be annoying. The implication is that you've worked hard but others haven't. You can slog your guts out all your life and end up with nothing. You need a dollop of luck as well.

there is some luck but many successful people also have to give up things or make certain concessions others wouldn't.

But it's easier to push yourself if you have a safety net or just belief & confidence in your abilities.

@SnarkyBag (from miles ago in the thread): PMSL.

It's not, but it's equally offensive to assume that those who have achieved something didn't work for it. Sometimes they didn't. Sometimes they did.

I guess it depends on your circle. I don't know anyone who didn't have help to buy a house, in one place I worked 80% went to private school. I work hard but that alone didn't get me to where I am today.

Nope, no luck here, just extremely hard graft, picking myself up after loads of knockbacks, born into a fairly poor family. Nobody went to uni.
You’re wrong, sorry. Some of us have actually worked our butts off for this

YANBU. It's all luck. There's the genetic element which you can't control, then there's your upbringing which you can't control.

All the choices you make (such as how hard you work, how resiliently you respond to a situation) have a cause. That cause is your genetics and upbringing. Anyone who claims moral superiority because they lucked out in these departments is deluded.

The people who say it was just had work and not luck are usually the ones blind to their own luck. It's not even always good luck, but the absence of bad luck. I would say most people work hard in general, obviously some more than others, but we all have something different to show for it.

@DGFB

Nope, no luck here, just extremely hard graft, picking myself up after loads of knockbacks, born into a fairly poor family. Nobody went to uni. You’re wrong, sorry. Some of us have actually worked our butts off for this

Ok so your family were poor. Were they supportive? Were they kind? Were you loved? How's your health? Do you have a severe physical or mental illness or a disability? Is your personality type more extrovert and positive or are you naturally quiet, shy and pessimistic? Have you experienced severe trauma? Are you naturally intelligent?

I don't actually want an answer to these questions because it's none of my business...just some things to consider.

@weresouth

there is some luck but many successful people also have to give up things or make certain concessions others wouldn't.

But it's easier to push yourself if you have a safety net or just belief & confidence in your abilities.

True, but belief in yourself comes from within - anyone can have that whether you're born rich or poor, with advantages or without. I'll admit I got mine from my parents, but to use my DP again as an example he had no safety net (he spent years massively in debt - 3x his annual salary at one point) and his self belief came from no one but himself, his parents were not encouraging and none of his siblings have pursued careers or stepped out of their comfort zone.

Re Public Service: No ones forcing people to do these jobs. If no one did them, pay would be higher

Thank goodness so many are not motivated by money, pitiful we don't value their work more than we should..

Of course it's not just hard work. And it's not just luck either. Equally ridiculous to believe either to be true.

Tim Minchin sums this up perfectly for me.

He is a wonderfully wise and funny man. His speech is about 11 minutes long, but if you don't want to watch it all, it's at about 4 minutes.

Evidently it's not true that public sector pay would be higher if no one did it, there have been shortages for many years and pay has never increased.

@Grenlei but your DP isn't typical. I'm mean there are plenty of studies around this.

but belief in yourself comes from within - anyone can have that whether you're born rich or poor, with advantages or without.

You really think a disadvantaged or abusive eg neglectful background won't impact on how a child sees themselves?

@DGFB

Nope, no luck here, just extremely hard graft, picking myself up after loads of knockbacks, born into a fairly poor family. Nobody went to uni. You’re wrong, sorry. Some of us have actually worked our butts off for this

My parents were 16 when they had me and I grew up on one of the poorest estates in England. Im the only person in my family to go to university and i'm now an academic with a PhD. I've worked extremely hard all my life but I can also acknowledge that there has been some elements of luck/chance along the way. It in no way detracts from my hard work.