If you start work at 9 am, is it OK to walk through the door at 9 am ?

[mmhhhkkkk]

Or is that a bit ' late ' ?

It's tough this one. She isn't paid to be there before 9- so really there is no reason to be so. Expecting someone, regardless of where they work to be there at 8.55 to be ready to work at 9- means they should be paid from 8.55 then. I'm sure I've heard of people suing if they are expected to be somewhere before their actual shift time. I always have turned up 10-15 minutes early wherever I've worked. But wouldn't assume other colleagues would

@moynomore

Just curious, what are the jobs where they are monitoring the time you turn on your computer? I've never heard of that and sounds draconian.

Contact centre. I do the same WFH except the desk wiping! I arrive, swipe in through 3 doors, up some stairs, track down my mug, make a brew and get water. Wipe desk if the cleaners haven't been in Wake up computer. Log in to 7 different systems all with different log ins before logging into the actual call system at around 3 mins before I start. Whilst I have 3 mins I check emails for anything urgent that I won't get time to reply to later Click available at exactly 9am or 1 second before

I am paid per hour, if I have to get to work half an hour early to prep that means I need to pay the nanny for extra time.
In a month that would be an extra 10 hours free to my employer and 10 extra hours I need to pay our nanny.

Most people arrive a bit early because they can't cut it too fine for the travel to work in case of traffic etc. If I arrived at 9 though and immediately switched on the pc I wouldn't see that as being late. Why should waiting for the work computer to load be done on my time?

Having said that I would work through lunch, stay late if necessary for a deadline etc and if I arrived early i wouldn't sit at my desk waiting for 9:00 on the dot to get started! It's all give and take.

Also no point being pedantic - the person who has been to the loo and got their coffee and loaded the pc up before 9 might then be slow the rest of the day!

Depends, do you get paid from 9am? I'd say if so, you need to be at work for 9am.
My laptop etc can take 10-15 minutes to be fully operational, and I consider that as part of my job, to be done in work time, NOT my time.
When I worked in a store previously, they expected me to be at my till before 5pm, only paid me from 5pm despite it being a good 10 minutes to get in , hang up coat, clock in and walk to the shop floor

For a nanny, I would be factoring in "handover" of the kids into their start time and address that as part of the contracting process given that you presumably need to be out of the door/logged onto calls.

In my office-based job then I usually log on at least 15 minutes before my first meeting, or at 7.30am (my start time), whichever comes first. Nobody cares if it's 7.25 or 7.35 when I'm actually in my emails because there are other days where it's 6am or 9pm because there's an emergency in another timezone.

I’d say anything up to 9.10am would be fine.

If the job is time sensitive I.e reception phones open at 9, it’s late.

Anyone who piously declares it is late in a non sensitive job, are you also there checking the person switches their computer off at 5pm on the dot, and takes their whole lunch break away from their desk? No, thought not.

I always worked in retail, so you had to be on the shop floor ready to open at 9.00. However, if you work in an office, and are paid from 9.00, then surely booting up the work computer is part of your working day, and if you need to be in before 9.00 to turn on the computer, you should be paid from that earlier time. My first job, with Sainsburys, expected us to work 50+ hours per week, but always cut back the amount of overtime we were paid, which really pissed me off. Didn't mind working all hours in those days, but I wanted to be paid for the hours I worked. When we started our own retail business, we made sure the staff were paid for the time they worked. We only employed 2 staff. One used to walk in at 9.00 on the dot. The other used to arrive 20 minutes early and have his breakfast (I don't think he liked his kids )It used to really annoy me when I wanted a few minutes on my own before we started.

@moynomore

Just curious, what are the jobs where they are monitoring the time you turn on your computer? I've never heard of that and sounds draconian.

From memory, insurance companies, the local council, a couple of other offices, an accountancy practice and probably a few others I have thankfully forgotten about.

DP's job at the council comprised weekly printouts of the time the computer was logged in,
every call he took,
how long he took to get them off the phone (and a disciplinary if he actually tried to help the callers rather than 'accidentally' disconnect them),
the conversion rate of getting callers to go on to complete a 10 minute survey of how their call was dealt with (after having failed to solve their problem because staff had 2m30s to get them off the phone, including asking them to stay on the line to do the survey - with a 90 second script asking them - before the staff went on Red),
who calls were transferred to (with a 'why are you transferring calls? Tell them to call back and end the call')

and a separate list of the numbers you got to register for online reporting by taking their details in typing them in yourself because the app didn't work - with a Red status if you had to abandon it halfway through because it didn't work or it took more than the 2.5 minutes).

The irony of it? They 'weren't a call centre' because that had been expressly voted against in all meetings, they were 'there to provide a one stop service to the residents' and the figures were 'just to evidence that we help more people every year'.

They're the sort of places where there's always somebody telling the manager that you left your mug on the desk for five minutes, had a biscuit at your desk when you'd been told it was too busy to have a lunchbreak or that you spent more than 3 minutes on a toilet break/went three times in one day.

I clock in with a fob at the door so work starts then as far as payroll is concerned.

Long time since I worked in an office .. but clocked on go to desk in next room. Sit down. Check computer. Get up make coffee and come back via in tray at fax machine. And I'd have still done more work than the other clerks would in their first hour.
I often had to climb behind the desk to get the fallen faxes. First time it was my job I discovered about fifteen underneath that'd been waiting for some time.
I'd move the fax machine so they would stay on tray and I assume the cleaner moved things.

I clock in at reception and my time starts then and ends when I clock out. We have no fixed hours, its a 40 hour week but are expected to be present for necessary meetings etc. Some staff need to change clothes and/or shower (eg if they work with hazardous chemicals); they are given time credit for this. But I had a restaurant job as a student, where I was expected to start at four for hoovering, dusting, setting tables etc, but only paid from five when the restaurant opened.
For your nanny, if you need her at 8.45, then you should negotiate that with her. Agreeing a start time of 9, and being annoyed when she actually starts at that time is unreasonable.

I’m a manager of a store and during our busiest periods, that’s late. I need my staff there at 5 to to be ready to serve. During quieter periods they can turn up dead on 9 if they please.

@SeaShoreGalore

I’d say anything up to 9.10am would be fine.

So if school starts at 9am it's 'fine' for the teacher to turn up at 9.10am?

So if school starts at 9am it's 'fine' for the teacher to turn up at 9.10am?

Teaching isn't the same as an office job, though.

This is the problem with threads like this. Everyone does different jobs with different rules and responsibilities. I set my own hours but I still build flexibility into that.

I work as a dog walker and if I tell a client 9am that can mean anytime between 8.30-9.30 because it's a job where you can't guarantee exact times. I could get stuck in traffic, get a puncture, have to deal with a sick or injured animal etc.

Whereas when I worked in retail, the store opened at 10am and you were expected to be in and clocked in by 9.50am. You got paid from the minute you clocked in so it's not like they expected you to work for free, but rocking up at 10.10am wouldn't be acceptable.

I worked somewhere that expected people to arrive at 8.30, but didn’t start paying us until 9, it’s so bloody cheeky. Funnily enough, they would not be happy for staff to leave their desks early so that they were in their cars and ready to leave the premises by 5 at finishing time. It’s double standards. If you need to be on the phone for 9, then your start time should be 8.30, and you should be paid for that 30 minutes set up time.

I arrive through the door to my office 8.30 for my office job and usually take 5 mins to switch on get a drink - but I am not micro managed - which I had been in my last job and will never work for a micro manager again!

Yeah I had a boss once who gave me the big ol' speech about how a 9 am start means arriving at 8.50 in order to boot the computer up. It's the only time I've ever encountered that attitude and he was a massive cunt in lots of other ways as well. If you want your staff in at 8.50 put it in the contract and pay them. Or get a better it system. Or just get over your fine self.

I think nanny is one job where you can walk in at 9am and be on time.

It's your home rather than a standard workplace, so it would actually be a bit rude to turn up much earlier?

If it takes your computer 15 mins to start - it’s not your fault. You’re there at your desk ready to work. Coming into the building at 9am is late,

Yeah agree I mean if you're in the same house as the kid that's you nannying right there isn't it.

If your employer is going to make themselves late for wherever they need to be due to staying to have a conversation with you when you're on duty, that's the employer's lookout.

I start at 9 in a office, in a department that's not especially time sensitive (not client facing). Usually arrive between quarter to and 10 to, sometimes 2 minutes to. My computer takes about a minute to fire up and I don't usually get a coffee until a bit later.

Tomorrow I have a meeting that starts at 9, so I'll be in about 20 to in order to start my own computer and skim emails, start the meeting room computer, log into zoom, get a coffee and be ready for 9.

Meetings on the dot of 9 are

Most workplaces will consider it late and expect you to be seated at your desk, logged in etc. In my opinion, getting through the door at 9am is late, but as logging in is a part of your work, just being seated at your desk at 9am should be enough. If working 9-5 you don't get paid for the extra 5 or 10 minutes it takes to log in, so why should it be expected to start before 9?

I wouldn't get into some kind of grudging, clock-watching relationship with your nanny. Chances are there will be times when you are stuck in traffic or need to stay late at work or start early and you will need your nanny to offer you the flexibility and good will that you don't want to extend to her.