If you start work at 9 am, is it OK to walk through the door at 9 am ?

[mmhhhkkkk]

Or is that a bit ' late ' ?

I couldn't imagine working somewhere where this mattered. As long as you get the work done, why clock watch? We're all adults.

If I was the owner of a company and my employees said that they could get the work done in 35 hours then I’d be questioning my wage bill or their job descriptions.

35 hours as opposed to 37.5 obvs!

It is all to do with seniority and type of job. When I was more junior, in my project-led, creative field, I remember a job where lots of eyebrows were raised at people coming in a few minutes late, yet nothing was said about the regular late nights expected. Being a good manager, as far as I’m concerned, means you trust people to complete the work needed, and if they want to do this 9-6 or 10-7, what does it matter? If you nitpick over 15 minutes here or there, people are much less likely to put in extra effort for you.

But contrary to that, during certain parts of the project, time is crucial - so if it means being there at 9 to begin, I would expect people there and ready to go at 9 - because then being a few minutes late impacts on the rest of the team, eg if travelling together / unloading etc.

Whether you are paid hourly or on a day / weekly rate / salary also matters. If you are paid only for the hours you work, then work those hours and not more (but actually work them - no clocking in at 9 and then making breakfast) so clock on, then start your computer.

If you’re on a salary / daily rate, set your own hours to complete the tasks by the deadline.

Workers should be empowered to do their jobs, not infantilised.

I've no experience of being/having a nanny, but would think it's more like teaching than an office job ie people should be ready to start work when they arrive.

When I was more junior, in my project-led, creative field, I remember a job where lots of eyebrows were raised at people coming in a few minutes late, yet nothing was said about the regular late nights expected.
This used to annoy me when I had an office job in a similar sort of area (and was junior). I'm an early bird and it suited me to come in at about 8 and get myself sorted and things done when it was nice and quiet. Most people would trickle in between about 9.30 and 10 and would stay until 6 or after. I'd be ready to leave at 5 and would get 'Oh, have you got something on?', 'Off somewhere nice?' etc, despite me having done a good 90 minutes when everyone else was still in bed/dragging their arses in!

If I start at 0600 I am not allowed to punch in earlier than 0557, so I arrive and punch at 0557, am ready to begin at 0600.

Obviously hourly-paid employees like me have different rules than salaried ones.

I'm not coming before my shift starts if I'm not allowed to punch in early.

@enjoyingscience

I had a fucking useless team member have a huge go at me once because he clocked his hours to the minute but the flexitime system rounded it to the nearest 5. He wanted me to know he was being robbed of 10 minutes of flex. (Or similar - I can’t remember the maths!)

This same person did not appreciate being told his morning porridge and extended shit break should take place before clocking in.

Personally, I hate clocking systems, I think they encourage crap nitpicking behaviour and point scoring between employers and employees.

This..

When I've been paid by the hour in office roles - I've been at my desk starting up and then logging in... If I'm not being paid to be there earlier to wait for the slow IT system to start I'll use my paid hours to do it.

When I worked in child protection, we wohdl sometimes do breakfast visits at 7.30- 8 am,.... Or sometimes we would get in for when the usual phone lines opened at 930am...BUT this flexibility was repaid when we often would have to work after 5 (usual leave time) ...when we took urgent calls that had to be actioned then... Esp if out of hours was short staffed.... Several times I was leaving the building at 5 ish and one if us would have a category 1, come through (emergency), so we would all stop to help with the myriad number of tasks to do...think the latest I left was almost 9pm. We weren't paid directly for it but had time off in lieu.

I loathe working in clock watching environments.... Treat.me as a capable adult and you'll be rewarded with good work.

I had a 9-5 job once where if I dropped the kids at school and travelled in I arrived at 9.10am. The decent manager I had at that job tweaked my hours to 9.10 to 5.10.

The next role where I was patronised and micromanaged pressure was put on me to arrive bang on 9, therefore putting kids in breakfast club for 10 minutes and paying £5 a morning. My first meeting/appointment was never before 9.30 so it made no difference whatsoever. The manager was being a dick. I refused and they had to back down, as I knew they needed me more than I needed them. I've left anyway because that wasn't the only thing about that workplace that was toxic.

@JustJustWhy

If you always walk in bang on time - and always walk out bang on time it speaks volumes.

Yeah... as a number of people have said, it speaks volumes that you are efficient and good at your job. I can only surmise that people who stay late DELIBERATELY, are a bit shit at their job, and can't get their work done in the 9 to 5 hours that most other people do. So they HAVE to stay over. Either that, or they are ass-kissing the boss. (Or possibly both of the above!)

As @therocinante said.

"I don't expect the people I employ to work a single minute more than what they're paid for - it's their job, what they do to pay for their life, and nothing more. Prizing people who routinely go beyond that creates a culture where you stay longer and longer hours to be seen as more dedicated is unhealthy and places work at the centre of people's lives. If your team can't get their work done in the amount of time a week you've given them to do it, you need to hire more people instead of exploiting tropes about loyalty and dedication to encourage unpaid work."

Agree 100% with this! Although, sadly, there are many bosses who are not as nice as you therocinante ... I know quite a few people who have managers who accuse people of not pulling their weight, and not being dedicated to their job, if they don't do overtime when asked, and don't want to go on courses, and to meetings in their OWN TIME.

I know someone right now who is stuck at work from 8.30am, to 7.30pm or even 8pm, 2 or 3 days a week, even though her official finish time is 5pm. They keep her working overtime with meetings and deadlines, and say she cannot be dedicated to the job if she wants to leave 'early.' (AKA on time!!!) She is currently looking for a new job. Not easy in the current climate!

I used to work at a place for 3 days a week when my kids were at primary school, and the manager used to get told by HIS senior (at head office) that the staff need to go on training courses, and learn more blah blah blah. Ridiculous as fuck as we all knew our damn jobs! Occasionally, they would try and push someone into doing a long college course. (Like one day a week for the entire academic year...)

One time they picked on me, and the course was something I was NOT interested in doing, and would not even be that useful for my job! ALSO, it was every Friday - a day I didn't work. I did Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday!

When I refused as it was on my day off, the manager was incensed, and said I was hugely ungrateful, as the company were paying for the course..

I said 'you work Monday to Friday, what would you say if you were told that you had to go on a course that you are NOT INTERESTED IN, for nine months, and it's on a Sunday.. 9.15am to 4.30pm, EVERY SUNDAY for nine months. A day you are not paid for. A day OFF.'

He said he would still go, (but he wouldn't have.) He told me he can get HR to say I HAVE to go. Force me onto a course, at a college 25 miles from my home (work was 3 miles,) on my day off, and a day I am not paid for??? 'Jog on' I thought.

It was never mentioned again.

@JustJustWhy

If you always walk in bang on time and always walk out bang on time it speaks volumes.

But that's ridiculous, it shouldn't reflect badly that you value your own time

What jobs have a clocking in and out system. I dont mean on a computer.
I have only ever worked for local and county authorities and have never done this. I've seen it on old films and didnt think they existed any more.

@SirChenjins

If I was the owner of a company and my employees said that they could get the work done in 35 hours then I’d be questioning my wage bill or their job descriptions.

You do know there have been multiple studies done which show that trying to work people flat out for the full day is actually counter productive right? It leads to work being rushed, no time for "give" if some unexpected work comes in, no space to reflect and improve on processes and existing work. Good managers are meant to encourage staff to take a ten minute break between cases, for example.

Depends on the job, if I had to boot a computer each morning then I wouldn't be in early to boot it but I would hit the on button no later than 9:00, if it takes 2 mins for the machine to start up then so be it, they don't pay me to come in at 8:58 to press a button.

I once managed a public service point which opened at 9am. Officially we began work at 8.45 am. Staff would often arrive at 8.45 and use the 15 minutes to comb their hair/have a quick coffee/visit the loo/smoke etc. My rule was that I want you on the counter ready to deal with the public at 9am. Not a minute later. That allowed for the occasional late bus and the "getting ready" process.

You do know there have been multiple studies done which show that trying to work people flat out for the full day is actually counter productive right? It leads to work being rushed, no time for "give" if some unexpected work comes in, no space to reflect and improve on processes and existing work. Good managers are meant to encourage staff to take a ten minute break between cases, for example

You do know that at no point have I said 'work flat out for the whole day', right? Now, if a staff member wants to come in at 9, spend the first 20 minutes of their day reflecting and improving on their work then great - but if multiple staff across the organisation want to come in at 9, drink coffee and chat for 20 minutes about non-work related things before even looking at the on button on their computer and then leave bang on 5 on top of the time that's already built into a day for breaks, give time and so on then that's a lot of time lost when they could be reflecting and improving.

@notacooldad

What jobs have a clocking in and out system. I dont mean on a computer. I have only ever worked for local and county authorities and have never done this. I've seen it on old films and didnt think they existed any more.

Most NMW and hourly paid jobs - retail, factory work, restaurants etc - have a clocking in and out system so that people can be paid for the hours they work. Especially if you have employees on various shifts and who don't work on a computer there needs to be a reliable way to record when they start/finish.

I used to work in a clothes shop when I was a student and we just clocked in on the till system when we arrived as we didn't have a separate employee entrance so we just came in the front door like customers, put our bag/coat in the back room and logged in on the nearest till before going to find out what specific task we were assigned that day. Now I work in a supermarket where we have a separate employee entrance and we have a clocking in machine where we swipe our staff access card and it logs the time we start/finish because we all have specific roles, not everyone uses the tills (or even on the shop floor) so they otherwise would have no other way to register their presence in the building.

If you're salaried then there is less need to keep a track of the specific hours you work and if you work in an office on more than NMW then you're more likely to have your work hours tracked by the time you sign in/swipe your ID to get access to the building, or when you log in to the computer system but there is less need to track the exact minutes

The cult of work is alive and well on mumsnet. If you are paid for 9 to 5 you certainly should not have to be there before 9. Your employer should factor in the time it takes to start your computer for goodness sake.

Its late. I temped. Logged in around 8.53 grab a coffee. Start my work. If you only coming in at 9 its 9.15 before you get going

@moynomore

The cult of work is alive and well on mumsnet. If you are paid for 9 to 5 you certainly should not have to be there before 9. Your employer should factor in the time it takes to start your computer for goodness sake.

Doesn't happen though. If you work in a contact centre and hot desk, you can't walk in at your start time. It's been that way since 2005 when I started in one! If you walk in the door of ours at your start time, you're late because you aren't ready to take a call

@Mary46

Its late. I temped. Logged in around 8.53 grab a coffee. Start my work. If you only coming in at 9 its 9.15 before you get going

So if you arrive at 8.53 it takes 7 minutes to get going, but 15 if you come in at 9?

If you walk in the door of ours at your start time, you're late because you aren't ready to take a call.

Well they should pay people to start 5 minutes before they should be on the actual calls then. There's a difference between making sure you're sat at your desk at 9 and having everything in place to take a call at 9.

@Whitefire they won't though. In every single job I've been in you've had to be there early to get ready, and I've been working since 1998
You can get logged in at my current job within maybe 4 mins, but we are salary and not hourly paid

I'm a teacher so hardly.

Completely depends on the job. If working in a shop and you can literally work onto the shop floor at 9am then that’s fine but for most office jobs for example that’s late because you would need to be at your desk logged in and ready to go at 9am.

At my old job if someone occasionally came dashing in at 9am on the dot it was fine but not every day. You would usually be expected to be actually starting work at 9am therefore arriving before that.

I think you should have at least switched on your computer (if applicable) by 9am. Mine takes at least 5 minutes to be ready for working on and that seems quite unfair and not my fault the tech is so badly outraged. That would be 5 minutes of me waiting to work