To think I should not have to kiss a man by the third date?

[littleloopylou]

Really, I want to know. Is this unreasonable?

@littleloopylou

I'm different. I used to meet men through work or study. I would probably be called sapiosexual or something now

I feel utterly worthless, like this guy only had a sexual interest in me.

Even if he did only have a sexual interest in you - how would that make you worthless, Loopy?

All that it makes you is someone who has the backbone not to be manipulated into kissing men before she feels ready to :)
Good for you.

You have weeded out a guy who was not prepared to wait & move along at your pace. That's a good thing. Women should say "no" to men much more often, especially at the early dating stage. How they respond can tell a woman a lot of what she needs to know.

Also, this guy could be no more nefarious than simply wishing to move to physical more quickly than you. But that doesn't suit you, so you are not compatible. Good! - so you each cut your losses & move on.

I know some of how you might be feeling though. Some of the best relationships Ive had, even quite casual ones, have been with men who were prepared to let us get to know each other quite well before jumping into bed. Modern OLD dating style can be efficient, but it also feels pretty soulless much of the time. But when you find a guy who is interested enough in your character to wait for your body - the anticipation, the weeks of flirting, the feeling of security because 'A Gentleman Waits' is marvellous.

You'll just need to NOT kiss a lot of frogs before you find the guy who is happy to invest time in getting to know you, & who understands & shares the joy of flirting & anticipation.

Can you put what you want on your profile?
Even with OLD some men are willing to wait because they (like you) don’t click with most women.

@littleloopylou

I don't understand how so many people here think there must be a spark from the get go.

The ex boyfriends whom I remember the most fondly - and with whom i had the most chemistry - are men who I spent weeks around before the attraction started to grow. Just because some people can feel the spark immediately doesn't mean this is true for all people.

I do not think people are saying that there must be a spark from the start, but there should be a level of attraction. Additionally I would say that if there is going to be a spark it would be showing by date three.

As people have said, you are not wrong for not kissing someone you do not want to, but equally he is not wrong for feeling rejected by you not wanting to kiss on a third date.

It really comes across that you want a friend, where as he wants a relationship. If you want friends then you need to look for that rather than going on dates with people you only want friendship with.

@littleloopylou

I don't understand how so many people here think there must be a spark from the get go.

The ex boyfriends whom I remember the most fondly - and with whom i had the most chemistry - are men who I spent weeks around before the attraction started to grow. Just because some people can feel the spark immediately doesn't mean this is true for all people.

Of course not, but you're unlikely to be compatible with someone for whom it develops much sooner and who wants someone who feels similarly.

@littleloopylou

I don't understand how so many people here think there must be a spark from the get go.

The ex boyfriends whom I remember the most fondly - and with whom i had the most chemistry - are men who I spent weeks around before the attraction started to grow. Just because some people can feel the spark immediately doesn't mean this is true for all people.

Nobody has said it’s true for all people.

It is true for some people though and it sounds like it is for this guy.

It’s ok for you to both want to do things your way - it just means you’re not compatible with each other.

@TractorAndHeadphones

Can you put what you want on your profile? Even with OLD some men are willing to wait because they (like you) don’t click with most women.

I think many men are willing to wait for sex, willing to wait for deep intimacy, but I cannot imagine you will find many who are willing to wait 4+ dates for a kiss. To me that says friendship rather than dating/relationship and if they just wanted someone to sit around and have a chat with they would be out with friends, not going on dates.

He doesn’t want to hang around for something that “might” go further, or might not.
OLD means that there are loads of other people he can date where it’s obvious whether there will be legs to a relationship. Kissing, and to some people sex, is part of ascertaining that.

Also people on friendship sites wont want you covertly looking for a relationship. Friendship sites have married people or people who dont want relationships and it will not go down well for you to try and 'pull' on there.

Pull = old fashioned english word for get into romantic situation with another person.

To be fair, as a woman, if I'd been on 3 dates and not had a kiss I wouldn't want a 4th.

Sorry but the more you post, the more…entitled? you sound.

He’s not entitled to kiss you. You’re also not entitled to hundreds of hours of his time before you decide whether he’s someone you want to actually be romantic with. Yes you wanted to see him again, but the terms were “spend more time getting to know each other without romance,” which for most people looking to date is simply wasting their time. You don’t get to decide what he must invest in you.

You don't have to but I wouldn't want to go on a third date with someone I'm not attracted to.

No you're not being unreasonable but neither is he in not wanting to see you again.

@SoundBar

Why go on 3 dates with someone you don't want to kiss? For me the attraction is there in the first 10 seconds, either a yes or a no. Not that I'd act on it that quickly of course..

That's nice dear.

Not helpful to the OP, but how marvellous of you to offer your snap judgement.

You must have missed her early update that she wondered is she "would be called sapiosexual or something these days".
FWIW OP - maybe you are, or maybe you are demisexual.

Don't allow any PP to tell you otherwise, just because they're keener to tell you about how they date 'correctly' than to actually read your posts & understand why you would not want to engage sexually as quickly as they would.

[quote littleloopylou]@Findingthelight1 of course I didn't say anything about my sexuality. I think it's a bit weird that people characterise not wanting to get physical early on as a sexuality, in fact - it's very othering. I don't see why it should or would be viewed as being so unusual that it needs a special label

I just told him that I'm used to meeting people through work or study and getting to know them more gradually.

Given covid and the fact that i have a child to look after, i see OLD as the only real option. It is very upsetting to see that dating me is so boring that I can't expect to meet someone through this means[/quote]
But it was you who gave it a special label in your OP! It was you who othered yourself.

Sapiosexual is imo bollocks. But it was you that used the phrase, so people are just running with the language you chose to use.

Society and online dating etiquette isn't going to change just because you want it to, so you need to find a way to deal with that (ie be more upfront about what you want and expect, whilst accepting it won't work for some people who you like) or don't old. No one has said you are too boring, overexaggerating isn't going to help

@littleloopylou, slightly different scenario but I understand.

For religious reasons, I won't have sex outside of marriage. I'm upfront with this with guys I want to date. Most are not interested in dating without sex. I accept that it's a very narrowed pool of men - that's just life. But ultimately they're not right for me if they won't accept it, and, if you look at it another way, at least I'm not wasting time with men only after one thing.

Sometimes, I get down about it. I think I'll never find anyone. But then I remind myself how awful I'd feel if I compromised my values, and that I'd rather be single than in the wrong relationship. And the down periods pass.

And there are some men who will entertain it. It's not a hopeless cause. You just need one guy.

So my advice is be upfront about it, hold your head high and own your values/standards - but also accept that most men feel differently, and that's nobody's fault, just the way the world is.

Not unreasonable. You don’t owe him your body just because you’ve been out to dinner.

If you are being pressured by him, or others, now then run for the hills.

Never kiss or have sex with a man unless you really, really want to. Ever.

If a man didn't want to kiss me after three evenings in my company, tbh I think I'd knock it on the head too. He's perfectly entitled to feel that way, but I'd feel differently. And I think I'd probably also start feeling put off, as it would feel like I was on extended trial to see if I measured up. After all, if we date for weeks with nothing and then he finally decides he's not feeling it after all, I don't think I'd be able to stop myself from thinking "well, I can't complain this wasn't foreshadowed...."

He probably felt utterly worthless, that you had no sexual interest in him.

Works both ways.

OLD might not be the dating medium for you. At least, you might need to be very selective about what corners of the OLD-iverse might suit you. Maybe be a bit more imaginative in finding online chat mediums, or social groups, where you can get to know people gradually.

Ultimately, you would be very unreasonable to think that the world of OLD (and all the men in it) ought to have been created (and primed) to suit your particular needs and wants. Or to take it too personally when it turns out that other people's dating styles don't match yours.

OLD is what is it is. Most people are there for a sexual relationship. You already know that you are something of an outlier, or at least towards one end of the normal curve, in terms of the speed and depth to which you want to get to know someone, before sex. You cannot be surprised that the average OLD-user is not the same as you. It would be statistically unusual if they were.

@littleloopylou

And actually, the fact that I wanted to see him again tells me there is something there. I can't be bothered with most men after our first meeting.

I would try one text ot explain. It's likely he's acting from a place of feeling rejected. So lay out that you DO like him and want to continue seeing which, which isn't how you usually feel but that it takes you longer to get to the physical stuff so it's his call if your company is enough for right now

If it isn't, you're well rid

I don't think you're being unreasonable, but I do think it's unusual. Why date someone if the end result isn't some form of relationship? If you're not attracted to him that's fine, but I think he was perfectly reasonable to end it.

Everyone is different. I would have slept with him by the third date but as with everything it’s personal choice and what you feel comfortable with.

I can well understand attraction growing.

I recall really lusting after a few men but their personality dampened it when I got to know them.

Conversely I have gotten to know guys and after getting to know them, fancied the pance off them.

Personality is a huge factor.

Pity OP.

Perfectly reasonable to want to take things slowly.

[quote littleloopylou]@Findingthelight1 of course I didn't say anything about my sexuality. I think it's a bit weird that people characterise not wanting to get physical early on as a sexuality, in fact - it's very othering. I don't see why it should or would be viewed as being so unusual that it needs a special label

I just told him that I'm used to meeting people through work or study and getting to know them more gradually.

Given covid and the fact that i have a child to look after, i see OLD as the only real option. It is very upsetting to see that dating me is so boring that I can't expect to meet someone through this means[/quote]
With OLD this is just how it is. Most people are very clear that they want a relationship and won't want to spend ages building a friendship.

You might meet someone through it, but it will be harder.

I don't understand your issue about Covid and having a child in this context... Surely if you can get childcare to go out on a date, you can get childcare to go to a book group or a sports group or some kind of social hobby that you enjoy and meet people through that.

@littleloopylou

Here is what happened. He tried to kiss me. I pulled away. I started trying to explain. He told me that I don't have to explain. Then he texted me to say that we should reconnect when I'm ready to date or something like that.

He didn't want to hear you out - so he is not for you.

That's not a judgement on you.

"You don't have to explain" is a little ominous, frankly.
If he were interested in you, the person, he'd want to have heard.
As for "reconnect when you are ready to date" - he couldn't be clearer that he's not prepared to wait, could he? That he will only give you time if you are ready to 'date' (i.e. shag).

Again - this doesn't make him a monster!
Just a guy with fairly normal expectations of OLD.
If you are going to carry on doing OLD, you'll need to buckle up & ride this out, because it can be a brutal minefield to the ego. Many, many, men (& plenty of women) view "dating" as synonymous with "shagging", so you are going to have to commit to an even more rigorous weeding out process than most women - as well as the weirdos, liars, cheats & scammers, you need to protect yourself from feeling cast down every time you meet a man who isn't prepared to wait for you - by that I mean find enough mental 'armour' that you can manage that process without taking it personally.

Most of us toughen up by adjusting our expectations of OLD & accepting that it's a conveyer belt, because we're not meeting 'naturally' & seeing what develops out of friendship. Many people manage by dipping in & out, as it can feel like hard work ;)

But to give you hope, there are men out there who are also happy to give friendship priority over sexuality, & also prefer to get to know someone before sharing bodies. Again - you just have to do a lot of weeding out, be upfront with them before it gets to the third date, find out if they feel similarly, & not take it personally if they do not.

Good luck!

You seem to value friendships that develop into relationships - that's fair enough, but OLD is not the place to find that. It has to happen naturally and not be contrived. You either get on with life, and see what happens, or actively look for romance, which is a very different scenario, with different expectations.