To think I should not have to kiss a man by the third date?

[littleloopylou]

Really, I want to know. Is this unreasonable?

OP are you on the autistic spectrum/have ADHD…?

Wanting to spend a long time getting to know people before starting to feel attracted to them, or ready to instigate a relationship with them, that is, only dating people you're already friends with, is fine. It's not that unusual. It's how many, many women (and men) meet their partners.

So, stop trying to give yourself wanky labels. Just describe your usual pattern of behaviour in normal words.

Stop going on dates. Dates are brief meetings undertaken with a view to ascertaining the possibility of sexual attraction, then pursuing that. That's not what you want to do. Dates do not fit your relationship search and development pattern.

Stop throwing a toddler tantrum because the (mainstream) world of online dating is not set up to cater for your needs - which are to do something other than dating!

When you're ready to take a more constructive approach to searching out places and approaches to meeting people who might turn into friends and maybe eventually lovers or partners for you, I'm sure people here will be able to help you.

Stamping your feet and shouting 'it's not fair', then demanding that other people solve your problem for you, is not going to achieve that.

"Unless most people just kiss when they aren't comfortable? Do most people do this?"

Most people dont go on a second date if they arent comfortable with the idea of kissing the person.

Yeah your right Op everyone else is wrong 🙄
It doesnt matter really though, the man in question has called it quits, and you can pontificate all you want but hes made his feelings perfectly clear which, he is entitled to do.

I'm unlikely ever to want to kiss someone who I don't know very well. I don't actually think this necessarily is a sign of incompatibility

It's very much a sign of incompatibility with someone who doesn't want to wait that long.

Do most people kiss someone when they don't feel comfortable with it? Is that it?

Stop being disingenuous. No, that's not it. It's that most people, if they are attracted to someone, are comfortable with kissing sooner than you are. Fine if you're not, but do you truly not understand the point that many people aren't you?

it looks like I will have to consistently break my own boundaries to meet someone in the nightmare world of dating.

If what you're looking for is a long term friendship that naturally develops to more, OLD isn't geared for it, though you may get lucky.

You're unlikely to have more luck doing things you don't want to do with people you don't like. But you know that.

I'm a little confused, though. I don't think there is anything wrong with kissing on the first or third date, or any time. I just don't like kissing someone until I feel comfortable that we really like each other. So it's not a value. Unless most people just kiss when they aren't comfortable? Do most people do this?

Well I guess I feel that it's not very reasonable to expect a bloke to go on endless dates with me while I am deciding whether we really like each other and whether I feel comfortable with him - that is kind of a waste of his time, as he has already shown that he likes me if he's going on multiple dates with me. I guess if I wasn't comfortable with a bloke by the third date, that's a pretty good sign that there is no future for us and it's best to call it quits.

(BTW I'm not talking about full sex on early dates - just some indication that there is a physical attraction.)

As PP have said, there' s absolutely nothing wrong with your approach, it's just that it impacts the other person as well. I think online dating will be a challenge as it isn't really geared to your approach - perhaps a targeted dating agency would be better. And please tell your dates up-front about your approach, so that they are aware and not thinking you're just playing mind-games with them. Good luck OP - dating is indeed a major challenge! Such a challenge, that I'm chosing to stay single!

I have to laugh at the people calling you selfish and he doesn't want to wait around for months for nothing!

There are many many women waiting around weeks, months, years on a guy to say they're exclusive or propose marriage. Now that is selfish!

A man will survive not kissing or having sex for a little while until she is ready to.

The expectations, very likely created by men for men, to kiss or shag or the first date and definitely by the 3rd date is ridiculous.

Women need to start saying no to men more often and expect to be courted and actually get to know a woman as a person before jumping in bed.

@littleloopylou

He didn't respect my boundaries! He wasn't interested in hearing why i didn't want to kiss him, but he sent me a follow up message making a point about how it would be better if I did things his way! I'm just trying to understand what happened.

He's been clear as day about what happened. If you're still confused, you definitely aren't ready to date. This is just about the least confusing thing that could happen.

You don't owe him an explanation for not wanting to kiss. And he doesn't owe you an audience for a monologue about it either.

There are many many women waiting around weeks, months, years on a guy to say they're exclusive or propose marriage.

And they're told on here not to hang around waiting for it to happen...

No YANBU but if I didn't want to kiss someone after a date then I probably wouldn't want to date them.

@littleloopylou

He didn't respect my boundaries! He wasn't interested in hearing why i didn't want to kiss him, but he sent me a follow up message making a point about how it would be better if I did things his way! I'm just trying to understand what happened.

You frothing at the mouth as to why he didn't want to hear a long explanation of you're kiss-rejection would indicate a lack of awareness for his boundaries.

I'd be terrified if a date started to explain why they didn't want to kiss me. I'd definitely cut it short out of fear that a long list of my flaws might follow.

Everyone who is flipping out at me and saying I'm being unreasonable

Nobody is flipping out at you, again you are taking things very personally here.

my issue here is that I'm unlikely ever to want to kiss someone who I don't know very well. I don't actually think this necessarily is a sign of incompatibility.

But you have a different view of "knowing well enough to kiss" than the majority of people. That's ok and you shouldn't do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. However it is an incompatibility if the other person has different expectations to you. I think you need to accept this instead of berating people for being different to you.

Do most people kiss someone when they don't feel comfortable with it? Is that it?

No that is not it. Most people don't need countless dates in order to feel comfortable with a kiss. You do, again that's ok, but you can't be angry that others have different boundaries.

@RantyAunty

I have to laugh at the people calling you selfish and he doesn't want to wait around for months for nothing!

There are many many women waiting around weeks, months, years on a guy to say they're exclusive or propose marriage. Now that is selfish!

A man will survive not kissing or having sex for a little while until she is ready to.

The expectations, very likely created by men for men, to kiss or shag or the first date and definitely by the 3rd date is ridiculous.

Women need to start saying no to men more often and expect to be courted and actually get to know a woman as a person before jumping in bed.

You realise some women actually want to have sex with men by the third date or earlier? Its not about little, women giving in to mens desires, it, s absolutley fine to have sex at any time as long as both people are consenting 🙄

@DrSbaitso that's my point exactly. I don't see how i can force myself to kiss someone when it feels too soon, but it seems that I am unusual in how long this takes, which means most men will discount me for dating early on. It makes me feel terribly sad to think of being alone forever, or even the next several years, just because it takes me a bit longer to warm up to people.

@TractorAndHeadphones sometimes i think i might be slightly autistic, but i have never been diagnosed. I'm very attuned to my daughter's needs and emotions, which suggests that I am not. I had a traumatic childhood and I think I may just have a bit of a protective shell.

@littleloopylou

He didn't respect my boundaries! He wasn't interested in hearing why i didn't want to kiss him, but he sent me a follow up message making a point about how it would be better if I did things his way! I'm just trying to understand what happened.

I'm not sure you understand what boundaries are. He respected them by ending the relationship because you didn't want to take it further and he did.

Okay, fair enough, the follow up message was probably pushing it a little but Id read that as he really did like you very much.

The truth is that it doesn't matter why you have the boundary. He may well totally understand and sympathise. Doesn't mean he has to live with it.

I think your issue is that most people go on a "date" when they've already reached the stage of feeling some sense of physical attraction.

If for you that takes some time, meeting people by going immediately on dates isn't going to work. That doesn't mean you're "fucked", it means your going to have to widen your social scene to enable you to meet more men in casual/group settings where you have some time to get to know people a bit before starting one 2 one dates.

I dont think either of yabu. He thinks it's reasonable to kiss you because by going on 3 dates you've (inadvertently) sent a message that you are interested in him romantically when actually, you're still at the screening stage. He's replied saying get back to him when you want more - fair enough? Will you have any opportunities to see him in a more casual/group way that might help you feel ready to go further?

I don't think it's anything to do with online dating.
That didn't exist when I was younger.
I wasted enough time chasing boys and doing the "pick me" thing to quickly learn if they weren't interested, they weren't interested.
If they didn't want to kiss me after a couple of dates I would have thought they didn't like me enough and not bothered again.

@RantyAunty

I have to laugh at the people calling you selfish and he doesn't want to wait around for months for nothing!

There are many many women waiting around weeks, months, years on a guy to say they're exclusive or propose marriage. Now that is selfish!

A man will survive not kissing or having sex for a little while until she is ready to.

The expectations, very likely created by men for men, to kiss or shag or the first date and definitely by the 3rd date is ridiculous.

Women need to start saying no to men more often and expect to be courted and actually get to know a woman as a person before jumping in bed.

And those women waiting for a proposal would be told to leave the relationship. It sounds like you're insinuating that men must give in and tolerate anything a women wants because they're....men. Nope! It works both ways.

[quote littleloopylou]@DrSbaitso that's my point exactly. I don't see how i can force myself to kiss someone when it feels too soon, but it seems that I am unusual in how long this takes, which means most men will discount me for dating early on. It makes me feel terribly sad to think of being alone forever, or even the next several years, just because it takes me a bit longer to warm up to people.

@TractorAndHeadphones sometimes i think i might be slightly autistic, but i have never been diagnosed. I'm very attuned to my daughter's needs and emotions, which suggests that I am not. I had a traumatic childhood and I think I may just have a bit of a protective shell.[/quote]
Well maybe you either need to look somewhere other than OLD, or just carry on OLD but be prepared for this to happen and hope to get lucky, which could happen. Perhaps there is a website/app that caters for people who need a long time like you do.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but just as you don't owe kisses, the world doesn't owe you a relationship. Given how long you need, you surely need to be prepared to wait!

I don't think you are being unreasonable, but neither is he.

I wouldn't want to continue with someone who didn't know by the third date if they were physically attracted to me/wanted to shag me. I think both points of view are equally valid and you're just not compatible. I think saying 'he's washed his hands of you because he won't get a shag soon' (to paraphrase) is a bit unecessarily demonising. I mean, anyone can end any relationship for any reason they like and for most of us a rejected kiss on date three would feel like a brush off.

Women need to start saying no to men more often and expect to be courted and actually get to know a woman as a person before jumping in bed.

Yes, all us women are little flowers who are constantly being pressured to do things we don't want.

As a woman, I would like a kiss at the end of a first date if it went well and I was attracted to the person. There are lots of people like me. If it didn't happen on the second date I wouldn't be hanging around for a third.

@littleloopylou

How on earth do people see me as breaking his boundaries? I basically said fine, that's confusing and disappointing but have a nice life. He sent me a follow up saying wouldn't it be better if we were cuddling in bed!

I posted here because I'm bewildered by the whole thing.

I don't think you broke his boundaries. I guess what people are saying is that it seems you thought there was something wrong with him in not being prepared to wait indefinitely to kiss you? That you're bewildered by him not being prepared to wait. I think on OLD people assume things are going to move pretty quick, sex on the third date is probably the expectation of a lot of men tbh. I don't think I could do OLD if I was single.

@littleloopylou

I'm different. I used to meet men through work or study. I would probably be called sapiosexual or something now

I feel utterly worthless, like this guy only had a sexual interest in me.

I"m very much a sapiosexual but know that if I don't want to/or haven't kissed a man by our third date, then I am definitely not attracted to him.

If the shoe was on the other foot and the man hadn't kissed me by our third date, I would assume he wasn't attracted to me/we were nothing other than platonic friends.

@littleloopylou

He didn't respect my boundaries! He wasn't interested in hearing why i didn't want to kiss him, but he sent me a follow up message making a point about how it would be better if I did things his way! I'm just trying to understand what happened.

But he did as he didn't try to force you or persuade you to kiss him. He just didn't want to hear an explanation and tbh, neither would I. If someone didn't want to kiss me by the third date, I would feel we weren't a good match. Which he has done. He hasn't been rude about it.