To say being late all the time isn't a trait you are just rude

[username4s]

AIBU to thinks it's not funny. it's plain rude and shows a lack of respect for the other person?

I often see/hear about people who are always late and it's as if it's just a funny trait of theirs. I don't agree it's shows a lack of care for other peoples time. Are these same people always late for work/school runs/other important commitments or do they suddenly manage to organise themselves and be on time.

@JustLyra

I really struggle with this now. I hate lateness, I find it the height of bad manners when someone is repeatedly late. I was always the kind of person who'd be sat in my car for 10 minutes because I'd arrived too early just so that I wasn't late.

However, my youngest child has numerous medical conditions and I'm now often late because of a seizure, a phone call from a consultant, a blocked line or tube, or the likes. And I hate it. I absolutely hate it.

Yesterday I was 15 minutes late because I couldn't get the bloody lid off a new bottle of medication until I took a knife to the plastic seal. My friends didn't mind, primarily because we now do things like meet "between 10 & 10.30", but eventually they'll all get fed up with it.

Totally different and no true friends will get fed up with you.

@Kanaloa

No, I’m saying don’t be inconsiderate. If you’re aware you can’t possibly be on time, don’t agree to meet at a specific time. The selfishness isn’t in the being late, it’s in making the promise when you’re aware that (according to this thread) you have absolutely no control over whether or not you are able to keep that promise.

I totally agree with this.

There have been times when I've declined to take part in something because I know that the journey or the venue will be too difficult for me to negotiate. It's sometimes been a bit sad for me not to be able to do something, but better that than to ruin an experience for others.

But now I have so many strategies and tactics for organising myself - alarms, reminders, specific places for my keys etc, routines, all sorts of things. I'm way more likely to be ridiculously early than even a minute late!

I think it's weird to take it personally tbh. Yes it is annoying but it doesn't reflect poorly on you if that person is late to everything.

If someone was really late I'd call to make sure they were ok. If we were doing something I'd just start if they were late or rebook if I had somewhere to be after.

I also think you never know what struggles someone is facing. Some people struggle to get out of bed some days or are all ready to leave but are too anxious to step out of the door. Being understanding is so important. Yes some people may be being arseholes but then I shouldn't think you'd be meeting up with them anyway in that case.

I think it's weird to take it personally tbh. Yes it is annoying but it doesn't reflect poorly on you if that person is late to everything.
It is personal though. It certainly affects you personally.

I also think you never know what struggles someone is facing. Some people struggle to get out of bed some days or are all ready to leave but are too anxious to step out of the door. Being understanding is so important.

Absolutely. But don't you think it's only fair, if someone arranges a meetup & knows they're likely to be late, that they tell the other person - who might be anxious or busy or struggling themselves - & explain it's not personal?

For those saying they leave 2 hours when they know it's takes an hour but are still late - it may be worth asking yourselves if leaving that extra time is the issue.

Sounds odd - but hear me out!

My ds is autistic. He works to a routine. But if he has an hour he can manage to do the jobs as it fits into that hour.

If he had 2 he'd do the jobs but more slowly knowing he had time and gets more easily distracted as he knows he has time to be distracted - if that makes sense?!

I am chronically early. I would never make my earliness however someone else's problem. I would never turn up to someone's house early. If I arrived early I would go for a walk or hang around somewhere until I was on time. Meeting people in public, I would do the same.

I have chronically late friends. I would never end the friendship over it, as they have so many other good qualities. It would impact what I would agree to do with them though. If I was making plans to do something, I would consider - will this wind me up or spoil the event for others if this person is late. If the answer is yes, then they don't get an invite (or I will decline their invite). We had to ditch one person from a regular group who went to the theatre together as she would always be late and typically either have the tickets (so no one could go in) or we would have her ticket etc.. Or turn up to the dinner before hand really late but then still want to order food etc.

I'm having to step back from this thread. I've found it deeply hurtful.
People can't understand that a variety of people makes the world go round.

It seems to be split into a few different thoughts:

1. Timekeeping is very important to me, it should therefore be as important to everyone else.
2. Have you ever tried a watch?

We're all made differently, and we each have different strengths and weaknesses. I would love to explain to each person what it is like from my viewpoint, as a disorganised, badly managed person. How it feels, how hard it is to live like this.

It's not easy to just wake up and be a different person. If money spent on stationery translated to being well organised I promise you I would be running my life as smoothly as air traffic control. I can pour time and money and energy and various solutions into life - my difficulties mean it's not easy to translate that into a positive outcome.

If only using a diary, or just caring more, meant that people with chronic executive dysfunction could fix themselves, there would be no need for educational psychologists, psychiatrists and methylphenidate.

I cannot give any more fodder to some of the snide, awful people in this thread who seem to be enjoying their superiority. My talents don't lie in organisation and time keeping. They lie in being caring, compassionate, giving and creative. I've done more for friends that I love than some people here would ever consider.

If anybody would genuinely like to understand more you are very welcome to message me but I can't feed the trolls any more and I'm going to hide this thread.

This is my favourite resource on ADHD, it's a long, gentle fascinating look into the disorder of the disorder.

It's that sort of thing re ticket/meal that I find really irritating too @SugarCaneHarvest

I'm more blunt now and will make sure they are responsible only for their ticket, and I arrange to meet them inside wherever we are meeting.

Based on reading this thread, I think that would probably be least stressful all round.
I'm never without a book and a coffee either, and I'll wait only as long as is convenient.

Before you go @AntiSocialDistancer, I will watch the video, but how would you prefer people to behave when you're very late? What works best for you?

I'm a bit in the middle so can see both sides:

Tendency for lateness (or stressful just in time) in the mornings or on leaving the house but pretty reliable for later in the day.

It definitely isn't a personal/intentional thing. It's like a hangover - every time it happens I promise myself it won't happen again, then it does!

I am a night owl and despite being a professional and a parent still struggle to wake up. I can set my alarm for a logical calculated time but my sleepy Jekyll-Hyde persona just snoozes or even calculates if I skip eg making lunch/getting petrol I can have another 15 min. Then when I finally am properly awake it's a mad regret-filled rush. I often won't admit to myself I'm already late (and text ahead) as I'm so ashamed and optimistically thinking I can catch up the time. Am also guilty of planning to leave dead on time and then squeezing tasks in until that point, then having omitted a step - eg it takes 8 min to walk from car park.

Only takes missing keys or the car needing de-icing to push from barely on time to late. Have been late for work/school.

"Scary" one offs eg interview/flight more likely to snap me awake and plan a 1-2 hr error margin, so often ok but I have nearly missed trains.

Later in the day it is just easier to do the same process for some reason as my brain is more functional. Tend to be very punctual/early once the day has started.

I know I need to go to bed earlier, but no matter how fatigued I have been by 2130 I'm usually buzzing with energy. Even after being strict with early nights I still don't snap awake early.

People aren’t being ‘trolls’ because they don’t agree with you.

I realise it must be hard to live with but others can’t be expected to deal with it. Maybe as you expect others not to take it personally when you are late, you shouldn’t be taking it personally that it upsets others who are on time.

I had a friend like this. She knew it annoyed me and tried harder to be on time but when I was on maternity leave it started again as she clearly thought I was sitting around doing nothing. I remember once I was running late to meet her as a relatively newborn DD had vomited as we were leaving. I literally ran to our meeting place with the pram to make it on time and she kept me waiting for half an hour. Another time she left me pacing the street for half an hour in the pouring rain for half an hour with a crying DD.

I no longer meet up with her.

@Blueskyrainshowers

Before you go *@AntiSocialDistancer*, I will watch the video, but how would you prefer people to behave when you're very late? What works best for you?

My time management skills are much better these days but as has been suggested a number of times on here - I commit to less things. A few of my friends are flexible with time and I doubt anyone has created this consciously but over time these are the ways loved ones and I have come to make things easier.

"Let's get dinner at 7, meet at 6 at nearby place for a drink?"
This one always works best. My friends are flexible and we're happy to wait for people to arrive.

Travelling together is helpful. "I'll come to yours at 6.30 we can leave at 7 to get to the restaurant?"

Personally - I've found it helpful to tell good friends what time I'm leaving and what method I'm using to get there. It helps create more of a natural plan, writing it out makes it easier to make a commitment and helps me step by step. A friend would probably ask me "I'm going to drive, I'll set off from here about 15 minutes before. What about you Anti? Is traffic bad on Friday evenings if you're driving?"

If I plan to get on public transport I will message friends (or they ask in advance) what time bus I plan in getting. If I am late and miss the X bus it's easier to message and say "I've just missed the bus, I'll get the Y time" - and then it's easier to establish how late I'll be.

_

And how do I want people to react when I'm late? I couldn't possibly feel any worse about it if people try to make me. So

"Hey! Glad you made it!

every time is the best way to react. An explanation about the difficulties it's caused if I'm late is totally understood, if necessary and not obvious . Natural consequences are totally fine, there's no need for people to add onto them verbally. "Hey! Glad you made it! We've been here a while but wanted to see you before we went home, how are you? I've got 5 minutes before I have to dash".

If people don't want to be friends with me I totally understand. Like I said, I'm not that late a person any more, but I feel like a former shell of myself, restricting my commitments right down in order to function. I hope all the shitty commentators here (not you at all BlueSky) feel heartened that I can't work, struggle to socialise, volunteer etc as I can't bear any form of criticism at the minute if I am late or forgetful. I've shut myself off from most people.

@DottyHarmer

Oh, so you’re creative now, unlike all us plodders, ruled by the clock.

Frankly some of these posts are really insulting. I have enormous empathy for anyone with a disability (from personal experience). A small number of people have a disability which might render timekeeping problematic (of course any bowel problem would be no. 1 on the list). Most late people however are just at best thoughtless and at worst incredibly inconsiderate.

Oh, so you’re creative now, unlike all us plodders, ruled by the clock.

Well yes, people with ADHD are often found in the creative industries. Here's an article in Scientific American about links between ADHD and creativity.

This upsets you - why exactly?

Why do you think that being creative being a common feature of ADHD people is any reflection on you at all?

You seem determined to be angry and set on making up things to be angry about!

Oops! Article link: www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-creativity-of-adhd/

Thank you @AntiSocialDistancer I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that down .
Very best wishes to you

If only using a diary, or just caring more, meant that people with chronic executive dysfunction could fix themselves, there would be no need for educational psychologists, psychiatrists and methylphenidate.

Yes! It’s like neurodivergent people haven’t thought about things like this.

At my workplace we have 2 members of staff with autism and ADHD. We make reasonable adjustments to enable them to perform on a level playing field with their NT colleagues. They may be late, but they make up the time at the end of the day, they may take a bit longer but their work is perfect and no tiny detail is missed. We help them as much as we can with all manner of strategies. And as much as their timekeeping can cause issues sometimes, they bring a whole load of other skills to the table. I’m glad I work for such an inclusive company.

My daughter is lucky so to speak, I guess, in that her disability is it bit more visible.

When I explain that DD’s Tourette’s mean she can’t wear a mask/take a LFT/leave the house because her eyes are stuck shut we get, well, can’t you just make her/explain how important it is/can’t she just open her eyes/just try a bit harder - if only we had thought of that 🤦‍♀️

We make reasonable adjustments to enable them to perform on a level playing field with their NT colleagues. They may be late, but they make up the time at the end of the day, they may take a bit longer but their work is perfect and no tiny detail is missed.

There’s the difference. They have made people aware they will not be on time and made appropriate adjustments with the support of colleagues.

Very different to making plans to meet at a specific time then not showing up at that time/being late consistently in a social setting and expecting others who are waiting not to take it personally or in some cases not to even bring it up, just say ‘hi glad you made it!’

If you know you’ll be late consistently, you’d be better to make your friends aware of this or not accept time sensitive invitations. So say let’s meet for a drink, about 6-7, or let’s meet at mine sometime in the afternoon, after 2. Not let’s meet at 1pm at the restaurant then don’t show up till 1.30.

That’s the issue here, it’s expecting people just to mutely accept you constantly being late and not get upset about it because you ‘might have adhd/bowel problems/other issues’ that preclude you from being on time.

However, if you were aware of these issues when you made the agreement to meet at that time, and chose not to divulge them or tell the other person you would probably be late, then you were aware you would inconvenience them. Perhaps through no fault of your own, but definitely through no fault of theirs.

@Lavender24

I had a friend like this. She knew it annoyed me and tried harder to be on time but when I was on maternity leave it started again as she clearly thought I was sitting around doing nothing. I remember once I was running late to meet her as a relatively newborn DD had vomited as we were leaving. I literally ran to our meeting place with the pram to make it on time and she kept me waiting for half an hour. Another time she left me pacing the street for half an hour in the pouring rain for half an hour with a crying DD.

I no longer meet up with her.

This reminds me of when I was meeting someone at Green Park tube with my 16 month old. They were 45 mins late... awful.

But if you are talking about people who are constantly late, then you are aware that there are issues and are also perfectly capable of making arrangements around that. I have one friend who cancels stuff at the last minute all the time, so I make arrangements to meet up with her in such a way that I don't mind if she cancels. I have a friend with a very demanding job, so we fit stuff in around her job, and sometimes that means I cook her a meal and she complains about her job while she eats and then goes home to work some more, and that's fine, too. I don't need excuses. I do get the feeling from Mumsnet that a lot of people who post here don't actually like their friends all that much.

@Buffoonborisisatwat

What about those annoying people who are consistently EARLY! Say you agree to meet them at say 1 o'clock and they arrive at 1230 and make you feel guilty for keeping them waiting. How bloody rude is that?

Tu quoque (fallacy)

I would hate to think people assume I'm being rude. My DS has ASD and quite obviously autistic with his behaviour in public, but my own disability is quite hidden as I have learnt to hide it and be ashamed of it over the years because people have shouted at me as a child for being stupid, clumsy, careless, or just plain difficult. I am dyspraxic. I don't like to tell people I don't know very well because I assume well why would they care? And no one really knows much about dyspraxia, even my kid's teachers. So it often only comes out in confrontations where I feel as though I'm forced to admit it. I still get 'oh I had no idea you look fine to me!' or 'but you look so normal!'...its almost as though they would prefer that I didn't have a disability myself and just say "yeah im totally 'normal' if it makes you feel less awkward!'

Absolutely. But don't you think it's only fair, if someone arranges a meetup & knows they're likely to be late, that they tell the other person - who might be anxious or busy or struggling themselves - & explain it's not personal Yes absolutely i would expect them to call.