To say being late all the time isn't a trait you are just rude

[username4s]

AIBU to thinks it's not funny. it's plain rude and shows a lack of respect for the other person?

I often see/hear about people who are always late and it's as if it's just a funny trait of theirs. I don't agree it's shows a lack of care for other peoples time. Are these same people always late for work/school runs/other important commitments or do they suddenly manage to organise themselves and be on time.

Actually, people with ADHD often have either dyspraxia, dyslexia or dyscalculia as well, so it often does preclude the ability to do simple arithmetic. In my case, I can add those numbers easily if, and only if, I can remember them for the time it takes to do the calculation, otherwise I end up adding a different set of numbers.

@Buffoonborisisatwat I 100% agree with the “always early” comment! If I invite you over for dinner, and ask you to be there at 4 pm, if you show up at 3 pm (we’re not talking a few minutes early, of course that happens occasionally, we’re talking an hour or more early), then you run the risk of being turned away and told to come back at the correct time. It’s rude to just assume that I’m ready that early, and I’m likely walking around naked, doing my hair and makeup, or finishing off dinner, or who knows what else! Don’t expect me to be ready early just because you are. Show up at the correct time.

While it's sometimes due to genuine difficulty and an unwanted trait, it's often due to someone having got away with the behaviour for so long they have no motive to make more effort to be on time. Whatever someone's mental health or neuro divergence, being consistently late makes the other person feel the late person feels their time is more valuable than others'. Or they'd find coping mechanisms (like I did) to combat the issue.

@BreadInCaptivity

So you're saying that your DS has no challenges with his condition then?

He has coping strategies in place for every single part of it and nothing (even when he is living independently) will ever impact anyone else?

I have coping strategies in place that allowed me to get a law degree. I have coping strategies in place that allow me to manage multi-million £ projects at work. I am exhausted every single day by the number of coping strategies I use to try and live a normal life. Completely exhausted.

There are still areas that I am working on - this is one of them.

I think that you're lacking quite a lot of empathy not to understand why a post that opens up that you are pissed off that people like me are using our disability as an excuse might be quite shitty.

Out of interest, how will you deal with things if your DS doesn't manage to stay fully on top of his coping strategies once he's living independently?

Will you be angry at him too?

I'm not late for friends.

But I have to struggle against the natural tendency to be late so i think a disposition to lateness is, in fact, a character trait or a cluster of traits. For me I have high optimism (I assume stuff doesn't take very long); plus busyness,and a desire to do lots of things and please lots of people (as @bonbonours said, try and get your kids to the club if you can, because being in a rush is worth it, and there simply isn't the 20 spare minutes so it's be in a rush or don't go at all) ; high tolerance for risk (the traffic might be bad or good, but if its risk it or not go, I'll risk it).

The final trait I think is germane is one that hasn't been mentioned here yet, which is a kind of self-denial or readiness to trample over your own boundaries. I really struggle with self care when it comes to giving myself free time, healthy food, replenishing activities of all kinds. I will run myself into the ground with kids and work. So when I am meeting a friend, in my head that's in the box of " I planned something nice for me". When time crises happen or something has to give, I will very readily react to this by wanting to give up my own comfort. So I could be stuck at work or with a crying child and prioritise them over my waiting friend, as psychologically the friend is waiting "as a treat for me" and I will be the one to lose out on the luxury of a nice activity with her.

I am also good at communicating and prioritising though, so this rarely impacts on my friends. But it's something I have noticed and have to engage with when planning.

@DaisyWaldron

I'm currently on my final warning from my GP after missing two appointments, so I just don't go the doctor any more.

I've missed exams.

I've missed events which are very, very important to me.

I've missed deadlines to claim thousands of pounds worth of money.

I've missed flights, but I have found a way of avoiding this, which is to book an early morning flight, and arrive at the airport the night before and try and get a bit of sleep on the floor near the check in desk. I still panic about it, though, and spend and hours obsessively going over contingencies.

Most of those things happened a lot more before the ADHD diagnosis, when I was trying to do things the neurotypical way, and thought that if I just tried a bit harder, I could be on time for things.

I can usually manage to be on time for a regularly repeating event, so if I were to have a standing date for brunch with you at the same café every Saturday at 11, I would probably be mostly on time after the first 6 weeks or so, once the preparation had become a routine, rather than a vast sequence of decisions which all have to be made correctly in the right order. And the hours of planning that go into developing a successful, timed plan for leaving the house and going somewhere are worth it for a regular event, but I can't put that amount of effort into every meet-up I have. .

And if I'm late, I might make a joke about it, because that's a lot more socially acceptable than being honest about the immense shame and guilt and sense of failure and worthlessness I carry around with me because things that other people can do with just a bit of thought and effort feel like the labours of Hercules to me.

to you.

I missed an appointment for a lung x-ray recently, my GP thinks I may have COPD. Gutted.

But according to the tunnel-vision people on this thread, I must have missed it because I think my time is more important than the doctors. Riiiight.

My DH is late to pretty much everything - except meetings with one very important client and golf tee off times. Because he has learned the hard way that those two things won't wait for him. Which shows me that being late for everything else is a choice for him.

I'm not sure why he is like this. I do know that his family are all habitually late too and after 30 years of marriage I won't change him. He is a lovely man in many other ways but his persistent tardiness pisses me off. Nowadays we tend to set off for things separately and meet at our ultimate venue. That way if he misses the flight/ferry/curtain up/appointment/reservation he only has himself to blame and I'm not angsty on the journey.

Oh ffs. No one thinks people who are neuro diverse are just doing it to be annoying.
Get over yourself.

@BillyBearSpam OP is referencing people who are always late. Of course things come up. A one off is not the same as someone who is always late, obviously. As for legitimate reasons where the person has difficulties in functioning that impact their ability to be on time, I don’t think OP was referring to that either. OP is talking about people who just consistently have no respect for people’s time and just go “🤷‍♀️ oh I’m so quirky, deal with it.” It’s not. It’s just rude.

@DaisyWaldron

Actually, people with ADHD often have either dyspraxia, dyslexia or dyscalculia as well, so it often does preclude the ability to do simple arithmetic. In my case, I can add those numbers easily if, and only if, I can remember them for the time it takes to do the calculation, otherwise I end up adding a different set of numbers.

Derailing slightly as I'm not late but yes, I can stare at and work with a set of figures for hours but as soon as I close the spreadsheet I can't tell you any of them - not one. I need to keep notes in front of me - I jot down every crucial figure in a notebook I keep with me. Makes doing P&Ls a longwinded nuisance and I could never do Dragons Den!

It's an annoyance to me every day!

@shesellsseacats

So why/how did you miss it @shesellsseacats - genuinely want to understand?

People don't miss flights or interviews as often as being late for dinner at a friend's house because they aren't doing the everyday things till the moment before setting off to the airport or interview. Eg. I will have childcare arranged and hand over in good time before an interview, but when I am setting off for something else, and baby has to go with me, she will decide to poo and let it leak through to the vest!(!) needing a strip down and full change. And yes it happens so often just before school run. Like a pp said, it not about You!

@DrinkFeckArseBrick
I am you. Everything you said resonated with me. It is absolutely not anything to do with thinking we are more important, not valuing other's time, not respecting the on time person. It's just not.

I really have tried to change and set alarms earlier , allowed 'too much' time to get somewhere, have EVERYTHING organised the night before etc.. but it still doesn't work and I promise you on time people is nothing to do with our feelings towards you or us disrespecting our time. It's as annoying for us as it is for you waiting there. I am never ridiculously late but regularly ten mins because of the above. The dishwasher tablets are in the fridge, keys not put back where they should be etc.

I will always lose a key, forget my mask, leave my phone charging instead of remembering it , miss my train etc as a result. Some people just aren't very organised and really struggle with stuff that other people just take in their stride. It's hard to explain this disorganisation to people who are well planned out, have great time management as the obvious answer is 'well just plan it then' but even then it's not that simple.

I promise you we are as annoyed with ourselves as you are with us. It's just not that easy to change our ways.

I’m often late. I have ADHD and 3 children under 4. I make a huge effort to be on time and still often end up late. I’ll be honest I think having 3 kids does that to the best of us. I would hate to think my friends think I just don’t give a shit about wasting their time.

@wheresmymojo

In answer to your questions:

Of course he has challenges.

Yes he now has coping strategies for all his issues though some are more successful than others.

Are those strategies tiring? Yes, some of them are. I'm extremely empathetic towards that.

Of course I'd not be angry with him. I'd be as supportive as I have been throughout his life and will be for the rest of mine.

@BillyBearSpam

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

A similar thread was done on this not so long ago.

People have genuine reasons for being late. Anxiety, ADHD, OCD, IBS, childcare, pet care as a few examples. It's not personal.

On the odd occasion then fair enough but not every single fucking time!

@excelthetube actually yes they do. They will tell the ND to 'leave a bit earlier', 'set an alarm', whatever. And there are plenty on this thread saying that if you know it's a difficulty you have that you should find strategies to fix it, and suggesting that even in the neurodiverse it is possible to be on time when you want to. There's rarely any suggestion from anyone that they understand that we just can't help it a lot of the time.

The comments here really baffle me. How can that many people be in defense of being habitually late? It isn’t a trait. It’s a choice. There are many, many, MANY tactics to prevent yourself from being late. I’m disorganized! Okay, so get everything organized the night prior so there’s minimal fuss. Time gets away from me! Okay, so set alarms on your phone to go off at regular intervals to remind you of what should be done by now for you to be ready on time. I underestimate how long it will take to get ready! Okay, so get up earlier. Pay attention to how long it actually takes you to get ready if you don’t already know. I mean, there are solutions and choosing to ignore them doesn’t make being late a “trait.” It’s not cute. Respect people enough to treat them like their time is valuable too. Things happen and every once in a while being late is unavoidable. Kid has a meltdown, traffic jam on the way, etc. Fine! Totally normal! I’m absolutely forgiving of those scenarios. But the type of people (you know who they are) who you have to tell them an hour earlier just for a chance of them showing up on time… you’re just inconsiderate and it ain’t cute.

Obviously this does not refer to those with disorders that may impact their timeliness. That should be a given but after reading some of these comments apparently I have to say it. 🙄

@BreadInCaptivity

*@wheresmymojo*

In answer to your questions:

Of course he has challenges.

Yes he now has coping strategies for all his issues though some are more successful than others.

Are those strategies tiring? Yes, some of them are. I'm extremely empathetic towards that.

Of course I'd not be angry with him. I'd be as supportive as I have been throughout his life and will be for the rest of mine.

Then I hope people are kinder to your DS than to tell him he's using his condition as an excuse when he (inevitably because he's human) slips up or says on a forum that he still struggles with one aspect of it.

You have to bear in mind that your DS has been 'lucky' enough to be diagnosed at a young age, rather than being nearly 40.

He has had support putting coping strategies in place rather than being mocked for being lazy and forgetful.

He still lives with his parents and isn't juggling having his condition and all the coping strategies it demands with a full time demanding job, running a home and looking after children.

My coping strategies were enough to mask everything except being a bit of a procrastinator, unusually clumsy and forgetful until I was in my early 30's.

But those with disorders that affect their timeliness have a trait towards lateness (or earliness - in my case it works both ways).

You can't say it's a choice and then say "obviously not talking about people who struggle with it". Either it's a choice for everyone, or it's not a choice for everyone.

I genuinely don't understand your argument.

@Enwi

That's a very good point. To the posters saying that their friends who are sometimes late are disrespectful and don't value their time..

Do these same friends generally act (once you meet up or when you are on the phone to them etc) as if they disrespect you are don't value you? I suspect not (though obviously there will be some cases on which case I would question why you are friend with them).

In which case does this not suggest that they struggle with certain things but in no other way show you that they disrespect you?

So why/how did you miss it @shesellsseacats - genuinely want to understand?

The letter with the appointment came. I knew what it was but was busy doing other things at the time (probably trying to get out of the house) and I put it down somewhere random, meaning to open it later. I then promptly forgot it existed.

A week later I came across it and opened it, and the appointment was for that very day, I'd missed it by a couple of hours.

This is typical ADHD stuff - no matter how hard I try, I can't break the habit of just putting things down in random places, if I have something in my hand, if my attention is drawn to something else. I'm constantly retracing my steps trying to find things.

As I have two DC, I have a contant barrage of distractions so this happens a lot!

This often contributes to being late and is massively frustrating. I'll go get the thing I need from wherever it is, then something else will distract me and before I know it, the thing is neither in the place it lives nor in my hand and I have zero idea where it is, but I really need to leave the house. When I put it down, sometimes I'm vaguely aware of doing it and think I'll remember where it is, but then find I just can't.

Also it's absolutely typical ADHD to forget stuff exists if you can't see it.

Have you ever had to do something in a massive panic, really quickly? I bet you have. Imagine if you were living in that state all the time? Can you imagine you might drop balls all over the place? That's what ADHD is like for me a lot of the time. There is a plus side to this - ADHD people can be great in a crisis as often our whole bloody life is one so we don't freak out and can roll with it!

On the odd occasion then fair enough but not every single fucking time!

Eh? I don't have ADHD on the odd occasion. It's with me every time, funnily enough.

So, if every late person has a good reason for it and isn't being rude, how do we help you then? If we're, say, arranging to go to the flicks in a group of 4. You want to come. I want you to come. The other 2 people also want you there.

You can't help being not ready when we come to pick you up. So we miss the first ten minutes.

What's the solution? Genuine question. Do we drive you mad with reminders on the night / afternoon? Is that too intrusive/unhelpful? What can friends do so that it works for everyone?

And I will add, yes I have coping strategies, but they are exhausting.

It's like coping with day to day life in a third language you don't speak very well, and then everyone says "but you're just choosing to find this difficult".

I can't put in 100% of the effort all of the time. I tried and it broke me, completely and utterly. 100% effort for 20 years. I attempted suicide (a long time ago), because I'd internalised the message that I just needed to try more, and I'd run out of try - I felt my failure to manage to try even harder meant I was morally deficient and didn't deserve to live.

So now I put in 70-80% of the effort, unless it's a special occasion, and just have to live with being rude. Because it's a better option than exhausting myself into being dead.