To not want to be primary caregiver?

[ttcissoboring]

Not got kids yet but planning to. I don't know any woman that's not the primary caregiver IRL and it's starting to panic me. I don't want to be primary caregiver. Is this going to be enivitable?

Is it impossible to go back to work as soon as I am feeling physically able to and split the parenting at that point? A year off work seems the default but there is no way I want and could do that. Men go back after a week and there is no judgement as to 'how could he leave the child so young' woman does it and the judgement is like she has committed child abuse, I find it very sad and frustrating. And the judgement seems to come from other women as much as it does men.

Does anyone who has children consider themselves not the primary caregiver and completely equal with how they parent with their partner?

The idea of parenting doesn't appeal to me unless it's 50/50 ( of course I understand anything could happen tragically to DH where I'd have to be full caregiver and I'd have no choice)

Is primary caregiver inevitable because I'm a woman? And am I being somewhat naive to this experience?!

Please tell me your experiences of switching this narrative if you have kids, are a woman and not the default parent but share the duties equally from very early on.

[quote CutePanda]@ttcissoboring why do you want DC? If your DC will be under the care of nursery workers for most of their waking hours, what’s the point? Could both you and DH go part-time to ensure 50:50 duties?[/quote]
So fucking offensive 🙄

If your partner is up for it, it's completely doable, dads being the primary carer is becoming more common, which is great. I'm the primary caregiver at the moment but we'll be 50/50 when I'm back at work. I have no interest in giving everything up to be "mum", and if anyone thinks that makes me a bad parent that's not my problem

Tbh my general experience ( and this is only general, obviously lots of variety within that generalisation) has been that if there is a disagreement about the level of parenting input it’s normally the mother who picks up the slack, often doing the vast majority. Simply because (again in general) men seem far more comfortable to just not bother and well, someone has to do it, so even when it seems like it will be equal it doesn’t work out like that.

At the end of the day that is a big generalisation though..just seems to be what I’ve experienced myself, observed in friends or family or colleagues and of course read about countless times on these pages.

I suppose it’s worth considering how you’d feel if you did have to step up - you’re ok to do so of something god forbid happened to him, but how would you feel if something did not happen to him and he just decided being an active 50/50 or more parent was not for him. Because experience suggests you’d have to do it and this is generally a really common reason for relationship breakdowns.

Do not worry about the posters expecting you to be fawning over a baby that hasn't even been conceived yet.

Posters who suggest that your mindset will change once the baby arrives do have a valid point.

Your desire to ensure you don't have to compromise your work and lifestyle is perfectly reasonable. However, your concerns over who will be taking the maternity/paternity leave are not actually important in the big picture. Most couples cannot afford to have a SAHM or SAHD after paid parental leave. It's not just the money; your child bearing years are also your promotion and pension earning years, so you should not jeopardise these unless you really have to.
You should factor in both of you returning to work, probably full time after paid parental leave

This is the point where your 50:50 ratio will be established or destroyed and it's all down to childcare

@AudHvamm has it spot on. It's the childcare: whoever does the drop offs and pick ups will now become the primary caregiver. If you are not yet at work when the toddler wakes, then it's you who will do the feeding dressing and transport to nursery. If you are first out of work, then you'll do those tasks in reverse (and you'll also prepare the family dinner)

You should consider having a nanny, or finding a very local childminder, or a very local nursery. Do you have parents or relatives who could help out? Otherwise, the childcare facilitation will become the job of the person who is at home and has the nursery closest to their workplace. Once you step into this role, you will never leave it!

TBF though, you do not seem to have considered the fact that childten are like farts: you hate every one else's, but relish your own. The primary caregiver role is honestly not that bad. You just need to get the childcare sorted.

I would also like to mention something else you may not have considered: If you do get lumbered with an unequal share of child care, you should spare a thought for the onerous role of "breadwinner". if you are the breadwinner, your partner may feel you've dodged the nappies and tantrums, but it's not necessarily the best role as you now have the grinding responsibility to keep a roof over your family's head and food on the table. This is a role that in general they take on without argument. They don't usually get the option to go PT or become a SAHD.

@ttcissoboring

You really do need to consider if children are right for you though, because it comes across like you would view them as an inconvenience. That's not s nice way to grow up.

See - this is the judgement I am referring to! I have already decided I would like children.

This statement is completely unnecessary and judgemental.

You’ve posted asking a lot of questions so you’ve effectively asked for people to give their “judgement” on what you have said and then don’t like it when someone puts forward their perspective on your post.

When my four kids were young, we worked around each other as that was the only way to avoid huge childcare bills. Whilst difficult from the point of view of not having a lot of family time together, it did mean the kids all have a really close bond with dh as he did a lot of the parenting in those early years. I did take off at least 4 months with each baby though before going back part time. I could not have gone back sooner when breastfeeding and with broken nights, post birth recovery problems etc.

And also to add - while full time nursery and so on is an option that doesn’t cover housework, weekends, drop offs and pick ups, the emotional load.

How is that divided now? Does he do absolutely 50/50 housework, life maintenance and emotional labour now, before a child comes along? If so that’s encouraging!

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude @SkinnyMirror I think you may be missing my point and perhaps that’s my fault for not being clear.

I’m not stating breastfeeding is more beneficial on the whole, I’m saying that there are a specific set of benefits that come with breastfeeding like higher immune systems, lower illnesses etc.

That’s just fact. If FF is better for you and your family because of mental health, an inability to latch or just plain choice, that’s great - do what suits you. I’m not talking about personal situations.

I’m saying that scientifically, there are specific benefits to breastfeeding that you and your baby would receive if you BF. Whether you can or can’t or do or don’t, that’s just fact.

I would suggest, if you haven't already, sit down with your DH and have an honest conversation about this. Him hinting he'll do a fair share of the parenting is not enough imho. Talk to him about what you want and expect as you both go into parenthood. Make sure you both are clear about what is wanted from eachother.

I disagree with those questioning if you really want kids. I'm sure there's a shed load of men out there that agree to go into parenthood with the expectations the mother will take care of majority of childcare and would not be willing to do it if their partners told them they expect them to take time off of their career to care for their child. We live in a society where that is acceptable but it's not the other way round. I don't think that's right and the only way opinions will change is if the norm changes.

I would expect some judgement from people OP but as long as you and your DH are on the same page and stand strong then who really gives a shit

@heathspeedwell

OP I can't believe so many posters are giving you a hard time when all you have done is ask a perfectly reasonable question.

It sounds like you are a very thoughtful person and I think you and your DH will make great parents and really good role models for you kids.

@heathspeedwell you beat me to it.

Many of the replies on this thread are baffling.

How many threads are there every day with people bemoaning the fact that they have to shoulder all the responsibility for childcare and the "mental load" whilst their partner swans off to their mysterious hobby and continues to live the life of a single person?

The OP has clearly said that she wants the parenting to be shared 50/50. What on earth is wrong with that?

I went back to work part time (and from home) when DD was 4 months because I love being her mum but I needed something for myself. Everything has to fit around her though, she’s the priority now not my career.

That’s the only reason why I think you need to rethink parenthood. You don’t realise how all consuming it really is until you’re in it. The way you speak makes you sound like you’re putting yourself first and not the potential child.

In regards to 50:50 care, I think when you start off being the main carer for the babe then it’s hard to transition. Because your partner won’t know the perfect way to put DC to bed, or the spoon they like their food off of etc. Having children is a sacrifice and a huge privilege at the same time. I think you need to think about that.

In our case I’m very much the primary carer and that’s how I want it. When ttc (which was a long journey for us too) and pregnant we definitely discussed being closer to 50/50 and my plan was to return to work after 9 months or so (I actually remember talking about an opportunity I’d probably want to take after 5 months). However when she arrived everything did very much change, I’m still a (mostly) SAHM mum after 13 months and I’ve actually started some steps towards a career change and freelance work. DH definitely shares care, he does plenty, but for practical reasons it’s been mostly me up to now though that will shift as I hopefully make a go of freelancing.

In my circle however the woman being the primary carer isn’t the absolute automatic norm. My sister achieved some very big professional qualifications, promotions and built an incredibly successful business from the ground up all whilst having small children. Her husband’s career took a back seat and he was at times primary carer although I think it varied over time. (Other sister had 4 kids and was a stay at home mum who did literally everything until fairly recently so we’re a real mix in our family). Another relative has gone back to university to train as a nurse and her husband has compressed his hours so he does more than half the childcare. Of the other mums I’ve met at groups I know one who returned to work after 3 months, splitting the maternity leave with her husband and now they very much share childcare (with family help as well), another who works part time as does her husband so they split it, and sadly one mum who has had some serious health issues since birth and spending a lot of time in hospital so her husband has by necessity become primary carer.

@CutePanda
Fucking vile comment

Do whatever works for you. But respectfully, until you’ve had a child you won’t know what you want. There is no love or bond like it. You might love maternity leave and being with your baby, or you might not. You do you.

Yes the OP has said she only wants a baby IF the parenting is 50:50, well ok fair enough, what I don’t get is why post this on mumsnet? How can strangers give any advise as to whether the baby’s dad will pull his weight 50 percent of the time? Who knows, I think that conversation needs to be had with the potential father. It also seems naive to then complain about people being “judgemental” when the whole idea of posting on a public forum is to ask others for their judgement! Some posters have said it’s unrealistic to expect having a baby to come with such “conditions” - I happen to agree, how very “judgmental” of me 🥱

It is possible; I planned to do the same as you. Ended up in work after 4.5 months and then post pregnancy depression soon followed. It was hell and the only way out was to find a more family friendly job (I went to 3 days but the industry I worked in didn’t really have respect for PT).

You will, as a parent, be judged. Sadly it comes with the territory. Every choice you make will be judged by another. Make your plans and keep them close to your chest - it’s no one else’s business.

What I would say is, you make all the plans you want but you cannot know how you will feel once baby has arrived. All my plans went out the window so just be prepared to be flexible and make changes. Be kind to yourself.

I think it is good that you are really considering parenting roles before the event. Far better to do that than resent a child if the other partner doesn't step up.

I have 4 children all born at different stages of my life (with the same partner) the age gap spans 13 years from eldest to youngest. So career-wise both of us were in different places when each of the children was born. We also had different extended family issues to cope with.

With the first 2, I was a SAHM by choice and circumstance. I had elderly parents and a high flying husband. I loved it. I put my equally high flying career on hold from choice.

During that period I did another degree and retrained and when the two youngest came along I went back to work term time only and my DH went part-time as he was higher up the tree then and could afford to so. Nurseries were not for us, and we worked around it so that one of us was doing the day to day care, or we had help at home when that just wasn't possible.

I suppose my point is that you need to sit down and both spell out your needs and wants and career aspirations. Then, work out a plan to get there so that neither of you feels they are doing the bigger share of the load, either physically or emotionally.

Obviously, it doesn't always work out absolutely equal, but if there is an understanding of expectations on both sides it is much easier.

Have you considered/ can afford a nanny? This could be the perfect solution. I have been a nanny for 20 years and have had both shared care and full charge jobs and one of my jobs I worked for 11 years doing 11/12 hour days so did the most of the childcare and those children have wonderful parents who they adore (we are all still in touch now) I think every family looks different and only you can decide what works for you. The bonus of a nanny is consistency with a very young baby and someone who will love them and they will love plus nannies will take care of poorly babies unlike nurseries and it’s a much warmer nurturing relationship in my opinion (biased naturally lol). Good luck with whatever you decide. X

My DH & I are both self employed too @ttcissoboring and I did my first job (away for only a couple of hours) at 7 days post partum with each of my children. I bf both too. It came as quite a shock to realise that I was definitely the primary caregiver role in those first few months, however, once past the baby stage, it started to even up and I actually found that whoever was at home was the default parent that the DC looked for.
Parenting for us is definitely 50:50 but a lot of the organisational labour falls to me, often for reasons cited by a PP - the network of mums who’ve been there, done that & offer advice. But the emotional labour of parenting is absolutely shared equally & our DC are close to both of us.

[quote seaandsandcastles]**@ChazsBrilliantAttitude* @SkinnyMirror* I think you may be missing my point and perhaps that’s my fault for not being clear.

I’m not stating breastfeeding is more beneficial on the whole, I’m saying that there are a specific set of benefits that come with breastfeeding like higher immune systems, lower illnesses etc.

That’s just fact. If FF is better for you and your family because of mental health, an inability to latch or just plain choice, that’s great - do what suits you. I’m not talking about personal situations.

I’m saying that scientifically, there are specific benefits to breastfeeding that you and your baby would receive if you BF. Whether you can or can’t or do or don’t, that’s just fact.[/quote]
I didn't miss your point.

Interestingly, when I was consulting medical professionals about DS and his issues the doctor told me that the best thing I could do for my child from a medical perspective was to formula feed because he needed special formula and my breast milk made him ill.
I'm not saying all those benefits you list don't exist but they tend to be pretty negligible in many cases. I just disagreed with your statement that from a medical point of view breastfeeding is always best for mum and baby - because it isn't.

You also seem to think that mental health issues are a choice. They really aren't.

My dad was the main parent, worked fine until he went off with OW and she ensured he never saw any of us again.
Up to then it worked because he had a flexible job - so that should be OK for you OP since your DH is also self-employed.
Having the father as the main parent was totally OK, in fact it was more than 50/50, he was by far the main one.
Btw I was the same as you - not having children just to have other people look after them, but after a few months I felt very trapped and even self-employed it is hard to work with a screaming baby and constant distractions, so a childminder/nursery a day or two a week to start with was a life-saver. Then when they are a bit older, they benefit from mixing with other children in playgroup, preschool etc. So don't be adamant that you won't use childcare.

@ttcissoboring

Also, I don't want to use mainly nurseries. Me and DH are self employed so actually when I say 50/50 I'm planning to take a day or two off a week but I want DH to do the same.

We would involve nursery 2-3 days a week. That's the plan for now anyway.

I'm not having kids to never see them, posters make so many assumptions it's frustrating.

Perhaps I'm not so cold hearted after all some posters might be pleased to hear!

I think both reducing hours\days to equally care for the child is a great idea. I think you need to agree this type of set up beforehand so you are both on the same page. Also how will you make sure the other tasks are shared “booking jabs/buying new clothes/ getting hair cut/making lunch box for nursery/ doing the school application. A lot of the time it’s not just the actual care of the child that falls to the mother, but the other practical events of having a child too. Eg I’ve sorted hair cuts for kids going back to school, their uniform, spoke to them about preparing to go back to school by getting in bed earlier etc. This is stuff that has automatically landed at my door….and it’s not on. Your 100% right to think about this before kids. Unequal responsibility for parenting breeds resentment… unless everyone is happy with role they have taken.

My dh is better at some parts of parenting than I am and I'm better than him at others. When we're both around we tend to pick up the bits we're best at, but we are both perfectly capable of doing it all when needed. Dh is currently a sahd and I work ft. Our dd is in school so he does pretty much everything around the house as well as sorting dd. When he returns to work we'll share more equally and get a cleaner and use wrap around care. We did close to 50 50 when she was 1-4 and both worked part time. It was harder to juggle but set us up for pretty much any scenario. Of course it can be done. We worked in partnership, we trusted each other and on days we worked left the other one to it. It's been great for our family

If you feel this way before you have children, then don't have them. You can still work and have kids and there's childcare and efforts you can go to to make that happen, but they will always be your priority.