To not want to be primary caregiver?

[ttcissoboring]

Not got kids yet but planning to. I don't know any woman that's not the primary caregiver IRL and it's starting to panic me. I don't want to be primary caregiver. Is this going to be enivitable?

Is it impossible to go back to work as soon as I am feeling physically able to and split the parenting at that point? A year off work seems the default but there is no way I want and could do that. Men go back after a week and there is no judgement as to 'how could he leave the child so young' woman does it and the judgement is like she has committed child abuse, I find it very sad and frustrating. And the judgement seems to come from other women as much as it does men.

Does anyone who has children consider themselves not the primary caregiver and completely equal with how they parent with their partner?

The idea of parenting doesn't appeal to me unless it's 50/50 ( of course I understand anything could happen tragically to DH where I'd have to be full caregiver and I'd have no choice)

Is primary caregiver inevitable because I'm a woman? And am I being somewhat naive to this experience?!

Please tell me your experiences of switching this narrative if you have kids, are a woman and not the default parent but share the duties equally from very early on.

@ChequerBoard

Ignore the judgemental martyr mummies *@Newmumatlast*, your setup sounds ideal to me. Some people just can't accept (or are jealous) that it's perfectly possible to co-parent on a 50/50 basis.

You will notice that the 50/50 advocates on this thread are acknowledging that there are many styles of parenting and that their way is one of many that can work. It's the die hard Earth mothers who belittle and insist that any other way but theirs is wrong.

So disheartening that this misogynistic claptrap is still being wheeled out. When will women stop trying to keep other women down?

I agree. I absolutely accept that there are other ways but in my view its more about the quality of parenting and love/kindness/care - you can be a crap parent whether you are SAHM or working mum or a bit of both. As long as you're doing the best for your family and your child is thriving than why can't different set ups be accepted. Why say awful things like people shouldn't have had their children? I know alot about child protection - I can guarantee my child is safe and well with good attachment!

@SkinnyMirror

People always focus on the baby years but actually often children need you more later on.

This is so true. The baby years were quite easy to manage as nursery was open all year round and very flexible. School is different!

Because I was established at work I was able to juggle things to fit around school rather than look for a job that worked.

This is exactly my plan. Obviously I am playing it by year as my daughter grows but because I did maternity as I did, I seem to have been able to return with no impact on my career and have actually had one of my most productive years this last year. My plan is to work hard and save and try and get myself more established while I can and while her needs are more easily met then be able to take a step back later on. Some women in my profession have ended up working very part time or not at all for nearly 15 years because they went off then as the children's needs grew they felt they couldn't return full pelt. So I am trying to work smart and effectively take my maternity leave later haha! Obviously acknowledge it depends on people's line of work as to what suits best too but for me, I can be more flexible the more I advance and as I can also charge more I can then also be more flexible about workload

Obviously acknowledge it depends on people's line of work as to what suits best too but for me, I can be more flexible the more I advance and as I can also charge more I can then also be more flexible about workload

Absolutely, the type of work you do is obviously a factor. What's often very interesting ( and depressing) is that men often work in roles that could offer significant flexibility but they either don't take advantage or the workplace culture doesn't make it easy.

I know not all women want to work when they've had children but there are a number who do but can't because of their husbands job . If more men were willing to work flexibly and more workplaces were willing to facilitate this then we'd see a real cultural shift I think ......

DH and I do 50/50 as far as we can, but I BF so of course that places more of the onus on me. Plus, our DD just naturally comes to me for everything comfort, which I hadn't necessarily expected or banked on.

Thanks again for more recent posts all very useful insights - and I agree it depends on line of work.

Majority of my work is done via teams I technically do not have to be in the office anymore (whilst being in the office some days would help, it's not essential to do my job).

So technically I can literally switch my laptop on and do just as good a job. Appreciate children are a distraction but I hope having that flexibility will make the 50/50 more achievable.

It really depend on what your partner is like and the problem is that until you try it neither of you know what kind of parents you will be. We split childcare and household chores 50:50 but I do 75%+ of the child related admin. Kids would be naked and there would be no swimming lessons or Christmas presents without me thinking ahead. I also do 90% of the child related worrying but that’s not DH’s fault!

Also, some of your experiences are incredibly inspirational.

I think a lot of my desire to carry on career is From seeing my mother (single handed Raise three of us) and she insisted on going back to work part time from us being a young age - not because she had to but to give herself adult conversation and to encourage a good work ethic in us. I think that was a valuable lesson I would like to pass into my children.

Also, I feel she was incredibly present - she was always at sports days, parents evening and I didn't miss her at all when she was at work - I loved my siblings company as much as hers!

I understand (before the pile on) life changes and things have to take a back seat especially early years - but I do not want to give up everything for motherhood / I don't think that approach works for everyone.

I want my children to be independent not attached to me every waking minute I want them to grow up to explore the world and not be scared etc. Attachment parenting isn't for me on that basis.

That doesn't mean (as many posters jump to the conclusion) that I want to shaft childcare to other people - that's not what I'm saying at all.

It isn't mutually exclusive, a child can have a well rounded upbringing being around parents and others. I think it would be arrogant of me to suggest I'm the only person that can provide childcare for my kids - I don't think that would be fair on DH either.

I think life and kids have the habit of throwing curveballs, that you can never be sure that reality will match plans.
My husband and I always expected to be 50-50 caregivers and both of us work full-time professional jobs. I took a year off on maternity leave and my little one started nursery at that point. Much as I'd have loved to consider the mat leave as a holiday, it wasn't. My LO was very clingy with me, and other than nappy change, wouldn't go to my husband when he wanted comforting. At night, he still won't go to him. He's 2 and only just sleeps 2-3 hour stretches. I'm also the planner and the better cook. I'm also the one that gets bothered by mess more, so we're going to get a cleaner when covid allows. But my husband still does all the nappy change and bathtime and bedtime. And the outdoorsy stuff, which gives me some time to relax.

You have to be flexible and keep going with the thought that "it gets better" and the kisses and cuddles are what make it all worthwhile

I'm not sure you can have hard and fast rules until you see what happens after the baby arrives.

I am not particularly maternal, never wanted kids and then DH persuaded me that actually it might be a nice idea.

I was fully signed up to Operation Get Pregnant, followed by Operation Be Pregnant and Operation Give Birth - but it didn't really dawn on me that I got an actual real live human being that I was responsible for until after she was born.

Total terrifying shock to the system, combined with an utterly feral mama tiger feeling - I would have killed for DD without a second thought, and was immensely protective.

I very nearly didn't make it through the birth and was in hospital for 8 days, and took a good 5 months before I started to feel in any way properly normal again.

DD then had appalling separation anxiety from 5 months to 2.5 years. Babysitters would not return, family refused to try more than once, even DH wasn't much use. She could scream non-stop for 4.5 hours - probably longer... that was the most we ever tried. Nursery we had to have several goes at as none of them would keep her when she would scream the place down until I came back.

DD also never slept for more than 3 hours at a stretch till she was 4, and dropped all naps by 6 months. We were sent to see loads of specialists on the NHS and the only thing that eventually worked was just letting her stay up till midnight and getting her into an adult sleep pattern (which has never changed yet - she's now 12...)

Having been very career focused, I ended up being a SAHM until DD started school. Once I made peace with that idea (helped by my employer sacking me while I was pregnant - I sued and settlement was enough that I could take extended leave) I absolutely loved being at home with DD... nobody would ever have guessed that, least of all me.

I'm still not gooey over babies, and I admire anyone that wants to spend time teaching or looking after children, but when it's your own child it's somehow different.

With any luck you won't have any of the nightmares I had - traumatic birth, losing my job and court mess, having a completely non-sleeping baby and the separation anxiety issues (now Miss Independence personified), and you may find you can have the life you are hoping for, but I would suggest going with the flow a bit more and just seeing what happens and how you feel at the time.

ttcissoboring
Thank you for that post, I've just started work after years at home and I'm terrified it'll impact the kids, nice to hear someone say they remember more than the fact that their mother worked

I think you might be a bit muddled about attachment parenting though @ttcissoboring

The idea of attachment parenting is that close and secure attachment in infancy leads to more secure and independent children in later life.

I am not making any comment on whether or not this is true - but just saying that in terms of your understanding of the theory behind attachment theory you have I think got it a bit awry.

Also attachment theory does not necessarily prescribe e.g. parenting - carrying baby at all times and breastfeeding until they start school.

It means, to me at least, parenting with attention and sensitivity to the attachment needs of the baby/small child and keeping those needs at the heart of every decision/approach.

It is possible to do that in a 50:50 way.

A baby who is cared for by two stable caregivers 50:50 is having a very stable attachment experience.

The route to confident, emotionally healthy and independent children is to provide what they need that is appropriate to their developmental stage and make independence demands on them that are appropriate to their developmental stage.

This can work both ways - not forcing a child into independence before they are ready but likewise not smothering a child unnecessarily and putting all ones own anxieties on to them.

Obviously it is a art not a science in getting it "right" but it is a thing you can feel your way for and become better at the older your child gets and the more experienced you get as a parent.

I want my children to be independent not attached to me every waking minute I want them to grow up to explore the world and not be scared etc. Attachment parenting isn't for me on that basis.

You cannot grow independent confident children without strong attachment as a basis.

Attachment parenting isn’t ‘never leaving’ your children or using childcare - it’s creating a nurturing, solid environment for your children to develop knowing they always have you to fall back on.

I also do second how very different you can find yourself once baby is actually here. Having a baby stirs up all sorts of stuff you didn't even know about yourself and echoes/unconscious reminders of your own time as a baby.

I have had friends who were totally going to be SAHMs until their baby started school - and went back as soon as they could to work as they HATED it.

Likewise others who planned to go back full time and employ a nanny - and throw all that out of the window to be a SAHM.

Others who were going to be very very attachment parenting based and instead find themselves following strict routines (which shall be nameless!) and feeding schedules, and the other way round.

Couples who planned to share the parental leave 50:50 and when it came to it she didn't want to. Or where he did so and then "stayed on" to become the main carer.

@Merryoldgoat

I want my children to be independent not attached to me every waking minute I want them to grow up to explore the world and not be scared etc. Attachment parenting isn't for me on that basis.

You cannot grow independent confident children without strong attachment as a basis.

Attachment parenting isn’t ‘never leaving’ your children or using childcare - it’s creating a nurturing, solid environment for your children to develop knowing they always have you to fall back on.

^^ This - @Merryoldgoat has said what I have said but much more succinctly!

I was an extremely confident and independent eldest child who toddled off to nursery and school trips without a backward glance and achieved extremely highly.

But what I have come to understand is that, underneath all this, I have an extremely insecure and anxious attachment style, which I am having to do a LOT of work on now.

If you look at all the attachment style experiments on youtube, the children who demonstrate the most relaxed attitudes and interest in exploring around them are those who demonstrate that they have a secure attachment style with their caregiver.

If you are secure that your person will always be there when you need find them again, or to go back to them, you are free to explore and grow! And you can take this person "into" you - internalise them - so that they are with you inside always, so you don't feel alone in the world.

When I say attachment parenting I am talking extremes - ie / child cannot be left with anyone else ever for years.

Each to their own but I personally wouldn't want that approach. Doesn't mean I believe I'm no attachment parenting either. There's a balance perhaps is what I'm getting at

But what I have come to understand is that, underneath all this, I have an extremely insecure and anxious attachment style, which I am having to do a LOT of work on now.

This is interesting - how detached would you say parents your parents were?

@Bumpsadaisie

If you look at all the attachment style experiments on youtube, the children who demonstrate the most relaxed attitudes and interest in exploring around them are those who demonstrate that they have a secure attachment style with their caregiver.

If you are secure that your person will always be there when you need find them again, or to go back to them, you are free to explore and grow! And you can take this person "into" you - internalise them - so that they are with you inside always, so you don't feel alone in the world.

Might check out some of those on YouTube when the time comes thank you

My parents were overall loving and supportive and attentive - and my achievements are a testament to what they did for me.

My mother was bereaved of her next child, my brother, in my infancy and was depressed and preoccupied when I was very small (understandably). I don't know but my hunch is., based on the evidence of other close attachments I have since had which I think have recreated that original dynamic - eg with my husband and my psychotherapist, that I spent a lot of time as a toddler very worried about her, whether she was alright, and trying to coax her into life and enthusiasm with my various precocious achievements.

As with many of their time, they had poor emotional literacy - little capacity to reflect or manage emotions or have the words to colour/explain them. The approach was to try to feel as little as possible as if you started feeling things, a situation would spiral out of control. Emotions good or bad were just not really talked of. Expressing warmth and love was OK to a restrained point but there was great embarassment and worry that it would turn "sissy". Bad behaviour and anger would be dealt with swiftly by sending you away to your room or shutting you out of the house.

It took me until I was in my 30s to become more emotionally literate - ie to be able to know what I felt, and to be able to reflect on it/describe it rather than actually have "do" the feeling. So to say "I am feeling really angry!" rather than just being in a rage.

They were lovely parents and did the best they could with the tools they had - their own experiences as children were much more deprived than mine.

@ttcissoboring

When I say attachment parenting I am talking extremes - ie / child cannot be left with anyone else ever for years.

Each to their own but I personally wouldn't want that approach. Doesn't mean I believe I'm no attachment parenting either. There's a balance perhaps is what I'm getting at

Fair enough - but as you say that is an extreme interpretation of attachment theory.

There are a few things that come out here. Whatever anyone says, there is always the 'how I want to parent before baby is here' and 'how I parent once baby is here' sometimes they align, sometimes they don't. You won't know which until they get here.
I know I didn't really appreciate before that a child can't just be left with anyone. Sounds obvious now, but I really didn't get it until I knew my children.

My mother worked part time until I was in secondary school. I've chosen not to work. I've always felt though that the best example I got was from my dad. He worked full time, but did everything for us apart from breastfeed us. He was a 50/50 parent before it was a thing. He'd do nursery runs for my older brother. He'd have him at work with him while mum worked. He'd cook at weekends. He'd clean the house. It was never a 'thing' though. It was just dad. That example though has stayed with me and that partnership and parenting is what I expect from DH.

@ChequerBoard

Ignore the judgemental martyr mummies *@Newmumatlast*, your setup sounds ideal to me. Some people just can't accept (or are jealous) that it's perfectly possible to co-parent on a 50/50 basis.

You will notice that the 50/50 advocates on this thread are acknowledging that there are many styles of parenting and that their way is one of many that can work. It's the die hard Earth mothers who belittle and insist that any other way but theirs is wrong.

So disheartening that this misogynistic claptrap is still being wheeled out. When will women stop trying to keep other women down?

It's not just 'diehard Earth mothers' as you patronisingly put it that belittle. As I said earlier @ChequerBoard you were just as belittling with your comments about having 'no ambition'.

It's not just misogynistic to say that women should say at home. It's misogynistic to criticise any woman's choices. Your posts are littered with judgmental comments and belittling.

We are 50/50

We have both had turns of being stay at home parents, we have both had turns of being part time at work. We currently both work full time and we share the parenting and the housework.

The only thing I did 100% was breastfeed.