To not want to be primary caregiver?

[ttcissoboring]

Not got kids yet but planning to. I don't know any woman that's not the primary caregiver IRL and it's starting to panic me. I don't want to be primary caregiver. Is this going to be enivitable?

Is it impossible to go back to work as soon as I am feeling physically able to and split the parenting at that point? A year off work seems the default but there is no way I want and could do that. Men go back after a week and there is no judgement as to 'how could he leave the child so young' woman does it and the judgement is like she has committed child abuse, I find it very sad and frustrating. And the judgement seems to come from other women as much as it does men.

Does anyone who has children consider themselves not the primary caregiver and completely equal with how they parent with their partner?

The idea of parenting doesn't appeal to me unless it's 50/50 ( of course I understand anything could happen tragically to DH where I'd have to be full caregiver and I'd have no choice)

Is primary caregiver inevitable because I'm a woman? And am I being somewhat naive to this experience?!

Please tell me your experiences of switching this narrative if you have kids, are a woman and not the default parent but share the duties equally from very early on.

"You really do need to consider if children are right for you though, because it comes across like you would view them as an inconvenience. That's not s nice way to grow up."

This comment and similar are incredibly unfair on OP. She's being practical and sensible in thinking things through now rather than many who have children happen at them and then go oh shit what do I/we do now?? Or they discover they
or their partner are not the person they assumed they would be on becoming a parent. Like some have said - you may feel different when it actually happens, or indeed your partner might too. It is incredibly sensible to think these things through now. So you've explored some of the different what is, options, plan b, c or even d!!!!
This does not make op sound unnuturing or that her child will be an inconvenience. She is preparing carefully. THIS IS WHAT A GOOD MOTHER SHOULD DO. Checking out the location for her nest, checking her nest for weak points and ensuring fellow creator is on board. Which parent will sit on the eggs? Both parents need to plan this in advance. Can't have both parents just randomly flying off at the same time!! I will say it is also incredibly wise to be thinking this all through now. Do men do the same??? No. I don't think they do. I think many men just assume that the woman will be PC. They will just carry on as usual and take the mother's responsibility for the majority of parenting for granted. You see that so so many time on here people!!! It happens. Good for you op. XXX And booo to those having a go.

DH took 3 months off when DD was born so the early days were very much 50/50 which I would strongly recommend. One thing to consider though is that going part time DOES damage your career - I wish it wasn't the case but it is - and if you're both planning on going part time you need to be prepared for a double whammy impact on your family earning power.

People can try to make this different, with all the rad-feminism, and 'MY man can do 50/50 of all the childcare, and I will NOT have it any different' stance, but things are never going to change - ever.

Unfortunately, judging by the comment on this thread you're probably right. It seems many women view men as incapable of being up children!

You can even get your man to promise/agree to do 50% of the childcare, and he may promise that, and may even mean it, but it won't happen, not in the majority of cases.

It does happen in my experience and that of my social circle. Men who don't pull their weight are viewed very negatively by men and women

Having a baby is totally different for a man than it is for a woman. From the onset, the man can fuck off to the pub an hour after the baby is born. The woman can't.

Maybe not an hour after but women can 'fuck off to the pub' relatively soon after if they should want to.

I still stand by what I said about the OP's attitude being oddly transactional, and also quite cold.

Whereas I think that's a good way to think about it before you have children. It's good to have a plan.

In our house my DH is the primary caregiver and a SAHP and that was the way we chose to do it as I earn a lot more and he will also be for our impending arrival.
I must admit we are much more balanced than some of the stories on here in terms of primary caregiver and other parent. For instance we are 50/50 at weekends and evenings in terms of stuff with DD and we both get leisure time. Maybe that is because I am more aware or female, who knows.

*bringing up

@Latecomer131 You'll probably get slated for saying that but I 100% agree. I did breastfeed for a variety of reasons but I was shocked how weak the evidence for benefits was in relation to how much it's stated. None of the websites have references to actual research papers, just references to other websites which laud the benefits without presenting any evidence. It's shocking. FYI I work in healthcare research and there's no way you'd get away with that in other scenarios. NHS is only evidence based to a point it seems.

Where I work there’s shared parental leave, so the mother takes the first six months as maternity leave then the baby’s father takes six months mother returning to work.

After I had my eldest I returned to work at fourteen weeks post partum. I hired a nanny for baby at that point.

Above was due to life situation at that point.

I think you need to sit down and agree with your partner that you want to return to work at x time after having baby. And make plans for childcare.

Then you can reassess when baby arrives. But at least you know if you don’t want to be the main carer then you have planned for it. Might make you feel less trapped and worried.

[quote oklets]@Latecomer131 You'll probably get slated for saying that but I 100% agree. I did breastfeed for a variety of reasons but I was shocked how weak the evidence for benefits was in relation to how much it's stated. None of the websites have references to actual research papers, just references to other websites which laud the benefits without presenting any evidence. It's shocking. FYI I work in healthcare research and there's no way you'd get away with that in other scenarios. NHS is only evidence based to a point it seems. [/quote]
See www.human-milk.com/science

My friend breastfed and took I think 6 months off. She went back to work full time? Dad is stay at home dad to their 3 year old. She's the main breadwinner and he wanted to stay at home. It works for them. So you're totally fine. Ignore judgemental people who struggle to imagine wanting things differently

It can work but you have to be strict with yourselves about it.

Literally the entirety of society is going to gasp at your husband's amazingness every time he takes the baby for a walk. And people will privately and not so privately view you as lazy. That has an effect and pretending it won't happen is not a good plan because it rubs off gradually until he thinks he's amazing and yet somehow you're guiltily doing most of the housework and still feeling guilty as hell.

You need clear communication and it needs to be constant. Pretending his mum and your aunt aren't privately raising eyebrows doesn't do you any favours. If you can make it work for you the rewards are great - my kids would have barely known their father if he hadn't taken 50:50 early on because he died when my oldest was five - but don't do it blindly.

I don't think it's quite so black and white especially when they are young, a lot of our parenting is 50/50, school holidays are split and jigged around both of us working, I work part time and my husband full time but he works shifts so if I need to do over time or going out etc he's around for them, I primarily do the school runs but it's not just parenting you have to share it's life in general primarily I cook, primarily my husband cleans, I decorate, he does diy, I plant the plants, he mows the lawn etc

I have two DC now 18 and 14. I went back to work when each child was 3 months old and have always been the primary earner in our household.

Its not always been easy but I have balanced parenthood with a very successful career. DH and I have always worked on the principle that they are equally our children and we share whatever is necessary to keep them healthy and happy.

It can work but you both have to be absolutely aligned to the fact that you are parenting on an equal basis. Obviously there are times when one takes the lead depending on the DCs needs and work commitments etc but it balances out in the longer term.

@FuckPilledLatteplus

Men and women ARE different. You can’t compare mothers and fathers when it comes to looking after babies. It’s insulting as a mother to be told you’re not that important, anyone could do your job.

It's not insulting, apart from birth and lactation there's no reason a man can't care for a baby. Likewise an adoptive parent, grandparent etc. I'm a mother, I don't feel like I'm more important than my son's dad, that would be unfair to my DP. Anyone could do my job, once you get past breastfeeding, my son would have the same attachment to any primary caregiver.

MN is quite heavily populated with holier than thou mothers with low opinions of men in my experience.
Glad you're ignoring the ignorant people telling you not to have children, what judgemental cows.
My dh and I are completely 50:50 and we both love it. We each work 3 days, with grandparents doing childcare on the overlapping day. We've never had any of the problems some parents have of baby only ever wanting mum, we have our own careers, enjoy our social lives, get enough sleep. We adore the baby and she adores us and we're a really happy family.
Hope you have a great time on your parenting journey 😀

I get wanting to have a plan and not wanting to be the primary parent, I wouldn't either. But you do have to consider every possibility and be happy to continue with having a child even if the worst happens.

Maybe you will get pregnant, you will split all care 50/50, or your partner will want to be a sahp, maybe it will all be fine.

But your problem is you can get pregnant, and suddenly your partner changes his mind. He either refuses to quit his job, refuses to lose a few days of work or simply walks out. In all situations, you are now the primary caregiver. You are it, with a partner at home possibly not helping or only doing some of it.

That's your problem, you don't know the future and can't control the fathers actions, only your own. Only go into having a baby if you are actually fully happy to do it on your own, incase anything bad happens. Sucks, but least you won't be surprised then or pissed off if left on your own.

I honestly couldn't give a shit who raises a baby, as long as both parents are trying. When one fucks off, or only does a half arsed job, that's when I judge, regardless of sex. But if the dad wants to be a sahp? Who gives a shit.

@Boofoof

Hi OP my DH and I have been TTC, and discussed how we would split responsibilities before we started thinking about children. Like you I don't want to be the primary carer for a number of reasons: I am the primary earner with very good progression prospects, my career is important to me and I have worked hard to get where I am (and need to keep up practice to keep up to date/ certified), I greatly value the company of other adults, and I need the push to socialise and be challenged for my mental health. My DH is very on board with being a stay at home dad after my initial period of maternity leave (I do plan to take 12 months), which we plan to balance with me compressing my hours into a 4 day working week. I expect we will get some stick for it from some family members, but ultimately only we know what will work for us as a family/household. Try not to worry too much about judgement from others, you and your partner know best what will work for you as a family to support your wellbeing and happiness.

We are in your proposed situation and what I’ve found is that people are constantly asking what my DH is doing for work. He’s actually self employed and works freelance in his old industry occasionally when it fits around childcare but it is constantly questioned. If it were the other way around I know people would not bat an eyelid that I was the stay at home parent!

@NameChange30 Is this supposed to go against my point? Because this is exactly the kind of pseudo scientific crap I was talking about. Where are the links to real life peer reviewed research using proper methodology to control for factors like socioeconomic status? I definitely don't see that here.

OP, I've only read your posts so apologies if this is the same as others.

One thing I will say is that even if your DH steps up to do his share of the actual childcare, or more even if he drops more days than you, it can nonetheless be a constant challenge for the mother. My DH is great. My friends and family all think that I am soooo lucky. And I am. BUT.... even when he was a SAHD, it was amazing how much of the thinking I had to do. Now at school, he's working but is the primary carer, but I do 90% of the researching and organising for after school activities. I organise the bulk of the play dates etc. My personal pet peeve is that while we both work, I am the main breadwinner by a very large margin and yet, because my job is WFH, if the kids are sick/need to isolate etc, DH just assumes I will handle it. It doesn't even occur to him that he might need to reschedule his work.

Similarly, when they were little, we'd be out and Dh would always do his share (or more) of looking after the DC but we'd get back, and he would disappear into another room unless I came in and said, "DH, it's late, the DC need to bath/bed/supper/whatever." It's not that he wouldn't do it, just that it literally did not occur to him unless I pointed it out.

It would be easy to read this and think, "oh, her DH is just a complete twat" but believe me, looking around, he is 1000x better than any of the other men I know. And I am still ultimately, the primary parent. In my case at least I know I can leave them with him an dit's fine. But if I went away for two weeks, I can assure you that the quality of the food they'd eat, the variety of activities etc would drop off pretty damn quick.

I think people are saying rethink/delay motherhood because you seem to see it as a project to be completed rather than the complete life changer that it is.

There's a reason why women end up as primary carers most of the time. Once you're through pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding your career has taken a thumping and your partner's hasn't. It's not impossible to share 50/50 but it risks jeopardising two careers rather than one. Not ideal but it's reality.

To be honest you sound young because you seem to assume you could 'do it better' than most other mothers. That is the arrogance of youth and inexperience! It's not impossible to share everything but there are strong forces that push people into the patterns most families fall into.

Babies need their mother... My maternal instincts don't let me just leave her. Are you sure kids are definitely for you?! It's life changing and will definitely require you to be present!

You're getting upset with people telling you to think very carefully about having children but I don't think it's necessarily intended to be judgemental.
Here's the way I see it, you don't have to be the primary carer, no..... if your dh is keen to do it and is better suited to it then go for it, no judgement involved
But
Somebody needs to be the primary carer. Imagine if you had a child but both of you secretly wanted to be the secondary carer, what would then happen to the child? They'd end up sort of shuffled back and forth between parents and childcare without that certainty that they are a top priority to somebody. That can be damaging to a child's self-esteem.
Nothing at all against working parents, I am one myself but you and dh need an open and honest conversation about how parenting would look to you both not dropping hints and hoping for the best.

Once you're through pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding your career has taken a thumping and your partner's hasn't. It's not impossible to share 50/50 but it risks jeopardising two careers rather than one. Not ideal but it's reality

Me and my husband did one 'hit' each with two children, so I was primary carer for 2 years first time around, he did it second time around doing three days childcare a week and working weekends. It also depends how much the other parent is prepared to help you get back on track- are they prepared to move for you, support you in working difficult hours or late nights, and so forth. Many men really quite like having their wife at home keeping the fort running and so don't actively deliver the type of support you would need to balance out the inequalities at the institutional level.

Also, if you always prioritize the person earning the most at any given time, this will always disadvantage women as they select slightly less well paid jobs, and also tend to marry slightly older often, so of course it seems 'obvious' to pick the higher earner, but, if you both kept going, often the lower earner can really pick up later in their career. Long game and all that.

@Spyro1234

Babies need their mother... My maternal instincts don't let me just leave her. Are you sure kids are definitely for you?! It's life changing and will definitely require you to be present!

Babies need a loving carer or carers. That doesn't have to be the mother.

What you call your maternal instinct means something quite personal to you.

I never had that..... I felt happy leaving DS with DH or MiL quite early on because I knew he would be cared for.

I'm not denying that some people feel that hormonal pull but there is also an awful lot of societal pressure and expectations at play.

Also, if you always prioritize the person earning the most at any given time, this will always disadvantage women as they select slightly less well paid jobs, and also tend to marry slightly older often, so of course it seems 'obvious' to pick the higher earner, but, if you both kept going, often the lower earner can really pick up later in their career. Long game and all that.

100% this. This factored into our planning. DH is 10 years older than me but my earning potential will match or exceed his because I've not sacrificed my career.

@54NameChange30 , that so-called "science" link that you posted is just a collation of cherry picked quotes from academic papers with no assessment of the quality of the studies cited.

At least Emily Oster critically engages with the academic literature and evaluates the quality of the studies. The only RCT evidence is extremely underwhelming. fivethirtyeight.com/features/everybody-calm-down-about-breastfeeding/