To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

[shouldbeworkingmore]

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

Covid and catch up in the NHS have to be paid for somehow. Bed blocking is a major problem in NHS beds.

Those who try to stir up intergenerational strife should at least do their homework, or pick and choose their statistics less. As it happens I had reason to look up the assistance current parents can get towards childcare today. Tax free arrangements and free hours, together with much more flexibility with WFH and shared parental leave - we had none of that. We also had mortgage rates totally unrecognisable to today's younger generations,

The fact is that every generation faces its own challenges and difficulties. The difficulties my generation faced were very different to those of our parents. They are all very real at the time. We all mostly just got on with it.

@shouldbeworkingmore

I said basically the entire working population... there is a difference

So how many then?

? You're like a dog with a bone.

@icelolly12 Not as noticeable as extortionate care costs in old age that bankrupt you and the next generation, and/or inadequate care.

Except that housing value isn't included in means testing for care in the home, so someone can be sitting in a £2m fully owned London house, getting care paid for by the working population, and at no stage do they have to look at downsizing or taking out any financing against the house, which their also-wealthy children then inherit. Meanwhile the average full time worker earns £35k a year and has almost no savings.

That's vastly unfair, and increases inequality through the generations.

if the majority pay a little more whether it's income tax, national insurance or some other tax, maybe just maybe our older people will not have to worry about their later years, whereas now they are so worried about spending their savings or selling their house that they are suffering. Plus all the others problems with lack of carers, poor quality conditions etc etc.

Well to target the majority it needs to be spread across a variety of taxes which is what I've been saying.
I also don't think this money will do anything to fix care long term.

You're like a dog with a bone.

😆 It's ok to say you don't know

@shouldbeworkingmore

You're like a dog with a bone.

😆 It's ok to say you don't know

I don't know or care!

As it happens I had reason to look up the assistance current parents can get towards childcare today. Tax free arrangements and free hours, together with much more flexibility with WFH and shared parental leave - we had none of that.

Yes the young have it so good that I'm not sure why the fertility rate is so low!

I don't know or care!

Ok....

See ya!

Now here's a thought, and one that will irk you op.

It will make no difference to me whatsoever, except for paying a bit of extra NI although I grant you it should be tax and I agree I should pay an increase from my pension, because my disgracefully unfair occupational pension and full state pension will probably stretch to my care home fees. And I'll pay the extra NI.

Good Lord. The thought of being fully funded from one's own reserves and earnings. Some of us will simply continue to fund others.

The DC shouldn't be hugely affected either way due to tax planning but have no fear, we will have paid all of our dues in absolute spades.

I imagine your eyes are a beautiful shade of green.

@Hopeisnotastrategy

Covid and catch up in the NHS have to be paid for somehow. Bed blocking is a major problem in NHS beds.

Those who try to stir up intergenerational strife should at least do their homework, or pick and choose their statistics less. As it happens I had reason to look up the assistance current parents can get towards childcare today. Tax free arrangements and free hours, together with much more flexibility with WFH and shared parental leave - we had none of that. We also had mortgage rates totally unrecognisable to today's younger generations,

The fact is that every generation faces its own challenges and difficulties. The difficulties my generation faced were very different to those of our parents. They are all very real at the time. We all mostly just got on with it.

When the baby boomers were under 40 years old, they held over 13% of total household wealth. Millennials are now reaching 40, but own 5.9%. Everyone has their challenges, but intergenerational financial inequality is a matter of fact not perspective - and it's about to get worse as the children of wealthier boomers are left with large inheritances and the poorer get stuck with student debt and a 1 year rental contract. Childcare tax credits and free hours don't go far when you both need to work.

www.visualcapitalist.com/charting-the-growing-generational-wealth-gap/

@RosesAndHellebores

I imagine your eyes are a beautiful shade of green.

What do you think I'm jealous of? I think you need to actually read my posts, perhaps you've confused me with someone else.

@shouldbeworkingmore

As it happens I had reason to look up the assistance current parents can get towards childcare today. Tax free arrangements and free hours, together with much more flexibility with WFH and shared parental leave - we had none of that.

Yes the young have it so good that I'm not sure why the fertility rate is so low!

Probably too busy being up their arses and posting on social media? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

No shortage of fecundity in these parts, thank you.

[quote OverTheRubicon]**@icelolly12* Not as noticeable as extortionate care costs in old age that bankrupt you and the next generation, and/or inadequate care.*

Except that housing value isn't included in means testing for care in the home, so someone can be sitting in a £2m fully owned London house, getting care paid for by the working population, and at no stage do they have to look at downsizing or taking out any financing against the house, which their also-wealthy children then inherit. Meanwhile the average full time worker earns £35k a year and has almost no savings.

That's vastly unfair, and increases inequality through the generations.[/quote]
Do you mean with an illness rather than being old as most homes are seen as an asset and are included as are savings

@RubyRhubarb

This does rather read as though the OP thinks they'll never get old. I can see the concern re NI and would be happy to pay more income tax myself both in my salary and future pension......but I suspect that income tax rises are coming to pay off the COVID costs, many women have already been disadvantaged over the pension age changes at short notice so that could be one of the reasons they're using NI as otherwise that'd be a double whammy.

I didn't think I'd ever get old either but here I am at 58, struggling to balance, work, family and my lovely mother who has just been diagnosed with moderate to severe dementia. As it's vascular dementia, there's no medication to slow the progression - it only works with Alzheimer's.

She is deemed to still have capacity to make her own decisions and so we lurch from one crisis to another due to her poor decisions, lack of judgement etc. It's like looking after an elderly toddler with the controls (not a great word but I can't think of another one) you have as a mum. Also there is no employment legislation that supports people in my situation unlike it that in place relating to maternity, childcare etc.

I could write a thesis on the nightmare of sorting out hospital appts, support for mum, how to fund (she had a tiny amount of savings but owns a small house so self funding although I'm hoping to get attendance allowance for her as that's not means tested but it's a huge complex form) etc which I won't bore you all with here.

It does need to be sorted and the younger generation have the time to hopefully sort this out for themselves. It's too late for mum and I'm saving as much as I can for my old age as I don't think the state will support me either.

Because young people already have higher housing costs, little opportunity to make money on savings, higher pension ages & less favourable private pensions, wage stagnation.

Any one born from 1961 onwards has the same pension age (67) as a much younger person but little time to plan for it, many workplace pensions pay out later as well, I know mine does due to changes a few years ago. Housing costs - big issue but does depend on where you live, wage stagnation doesn't just apply to the young and looking at friends my age, it can be really difficult to get work once your past 50.

A wise post that strikes a chord.

Sending you best wishes RubyRhubarb. 💐

Oh I see if this comes to pass.

We need some middle ground

@OverTheRubicon please state the source of your statistics.

@RosesAndHellebores

Now here's a thought, and one that will irk you op.

It will make no difference to me whatsoever, except for paying a bit of extra NI although I grant you it should be tax and I agree I should pay an increase from my pension, because my disgracefully unfair occupational pension and full state pension will probably stretch to my care home fees. And I'll pay the extra NI.

Good Lord. The thought of being fully funded from one's own reserves and earnings. Some of us will simply continue to fund others.

The DC shouldn't be hugely affected either way due to tax planning but have no fear, we will have paid all of our dues in absolute spades.

I imagine your eyes are a beautiful shade of green.

What’s the point of this post? You’ll pay for yourself and your DC aren’t affected, congratulations. But the discussion is about whether raising NI for care is fair. And as always the burden is on those unable to accumulate assets.

No shortage of fecundity in these parts, thank you.

It's always prudent to look at such things statistically though.

@icelolly12

I think it's quite clear from this thread with people moaning about council tax, income tax, ni, inheritance tax, pension contributions..) that whoever has to pay more whether it's the rich, the poor, the young or the old it's going to be "unfair" to a proportion of society, and that's why we're currently in a position why we can't care for our elderly as people are just too self centred.

We could start with those in charge not wasting money. Completely fair to everyone.

Oh except for private companies and the Tory’s mates 😎

Also you could have multiple taxes that affect every demographic. That way it is also fair.

Why am I not a politician yet?!?!? Would mumsnet vote for me

@TractorAndHeadphones, perhaps you need to read back a bit.

The elderly lady who lived next door to me (in her house worth close to 1 million) used to ask the neighbours to assist her with meal preparation, shopping, cleaning and mowing the lawn, because she wouldn't pay for care. With her £200 annual winter fuel allowance, she treated herself to a couple of bottles of decent champagne . I mean, I kind of, like her style, but when you have single parents struggling to buy food for their kids it's just not right.
When she died she left almost £3million in her will to her (obnoxious) son, who saw her once a year and didn't even bother to arrange a funeral for her (pre covid).

@TractorAndHeadphones I was confused too, glad it's not just me!

The HS2 is a total waste of money. That money would have helped

I would happily pay more for Social care and the NHS if it was ring fenced. Almost as a seperate SC and health tax