To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

[shouldbeworkingmore]

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

@icelolly12

Is anyone really going to notice a 1.25% increase in NI contributions? Seems a very hysterical reaction. 1.25% increase for better care for our elderly which includes us when we need it seems a good deal to me.

Of course they'll notice.

That would be £1.25 on every £100 over £9,580, no matter what you earn over that.

So if you earn a not ridiculous £75k, you'll be stung for an extra £670.

That's going to be very noticeable for most people.

[quote icelolly12]@shouldbeworkingmore. "To 'only' target those who pay NI... "

Well that's basically the entire working population; hardly a segment of discriminated minorities.

Hopefully we'll all ultimately benefit from improved adult social care, whether for ourselves or our families. I won't hold my breath though.[/quote]
No it's not. Lots of people have 2 or 3 part time jobs, so earn the same as someone working full time, but don't pay any NIC on either of them. Lots of people are self employed through their own limited companies, taking dividends instead of wages, and there's no NIC on dividends. Lots of workers are over retirement age, so are exempt from NIC. A huge proportion of "workers" don't pay NIC!

@SofiaMichelle "So if you earn a not ridiculous £75k, you'll be stung for an extra £670. That's going to be very noticeable for most people."

Not as noticeable as extortionate care costs in old age that bankrupt you and the next generation, and/or inadequate care.

Something has to give.

@Blossomtoes I would look at income as opposed to NI & raise CGT & maybe IHT (the most unpopular tax), higher stamp duty on 2nd homes. Perhaps homes should be included for care in the home but it should be a set amount eg 5-10% of the value.
What options do you favour?

Not as noticeable as extortionate care costs in old age that bankrupt you and the next generation, and/or inadequate care.

Most older people don't go into care homes though & property isn't included for care in the home means testing.

Correct, and social care isn't only about care homes.... it's largely paying for carers coming into people's homes so they get to remain in their own home...

@SevenOldLadies

I’d prefer them to introduce a new “social care tax”, payable by everyone, regardless of age, whose income from any source is above a certain level.

That's what our 4% increase in council tax last year was supposed to cover

What options do you favour?

I quite like things as they are. We’re resigned to the house going if either of us needs care. Our kids don’t need our money so it wouldn’t be the end of the world if they didn’t get an inheritance. We’re perfectly happy to be entirely self financing - we even have a care home fund!

Well that's basically the entire working population;

Except it's not & as above what about those that earn from investments?

@Blossomtoes

What options do you favour?

I quite like things as they are. We’re resigned to the house going if either of us needs care. Our kids don’t need our money so it wouldn’t be the end of the world if they didn’t get an inheritance. We’re perfectly happy to be entirely self financing - we even have a care home fund!

So you'd rather the house goes than pay a few hundred quid a year?

Putting it on income tax would end up with me paying more than if it were on NI.

I still think it would be fairer to put it on income tax - more progressive and fairer to lower earners, and would ensure more people pay their share.

@Blossomtoes but I assume keeping things as they are isn't viable as there's a huge deficit.

My parents downsized & have money saved for care. They think it's great they have a choice over that care. Similar to your dc that's less inheritance for me but I don't care.

So you'd rather the house goes than pay a few hundred quid a year?

It is so weird that some people can’t get their heads around the idea that for some people, the idea of broader fairness and a better functioning society is attractive even if it isn’t in their own personal self-interest.

@shouldbeworkingmore

Well that's basically the entire working population;

Except it's not & as above what about those that earn from investments?

I don't know the statistics, but I'm pretty sure that is a small percentage of the population who earn their entire income from investments, and those few, no doubt have offshore accounts and accountants to wangle their way out of paying taxes etc too.

You don't think most working people pay national insurance?

So you'd rather the house goes than pay a few hundred quid a year?

Yes, why is that outrageous?

What about those who won't inherit anything?

So you'd rather the house goes than pay a few hundred quid a year?

Absolutely. We won’t need the house any more if we’re in a care home. Meanwhile we’re living on pensions so we’d prefer the money in our pockets, you can’t spend a house.

You don't think most working people pay national insurance?

Where did I say that?

You claimed it's the entire working population though 🤔

And what about people who don't have houses to sell to pay for care?

Meanwhile we’re living on pensions so we’d prefer the money in our pockets, you can’t spend a house.

Exactly which is why I facilitated my parents downsizing. Why have it in the house when they can have a better lifestyle now.

@icelolly12 what happens to those people now?

@shouldbeworkingmore

You don't think most working people pay national insurance?

Where did I say that?

You claimed it's the entire working population though 🤔

I said basically the entire working population... there is a difference

@icelolly12

And what about people who don't have houses to sell to pay for care?

What happens to them now?

Putting it on income tax would end up with me paying more than if it were on NI.

I still think it would be fairer to put it on income tax - more progressive and fairer to lower earners, and would ensure more people pay their share.

Same here but it's fairer that I pay more than a lower earner.

[quote shouldbeworkingmore]@icelolly12 what happens to those people now? [/quote]
Many rent while they are working and can afford to...

I'm not claiming that this is some utopia. All I am saying is that there is no fair system, hence so many people moaning about their individual situation like it's a personal attack... and if the majority pay a little more whether it's income tax, national insurance or some other tax, maybe just maybe our older people will not have to worry about their later years, whereas now they are so worried about spending their savings or selling their house that they are suffering. Plus all the others problems with lack of carers, poor quality conditions etc etc.

I said basically the entire working population... there is a difference

So how many then?