To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

[shouldbeworkingmore]

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

Where do you think the money should come from then ?
People keep moaning about the state of social care and the NHs but dont want to pay for it. Why does it unfairly impact younger generations, people over 30 do work as well you know.

It shouldn’t be additional NI as retired people don’t pay NI. So yes it is once again the young having to pay

Yes it's unfair as people over retirement age don't pay NI. Pensioners do pay income tax if their income is high enough. Any extra tax should go on there, or something like a land value tax.

Decent social care means younger people aren't facing a lottery about whether their loved ones need care and whether that means they have to give up their lives to provide it. All social security type interventions benefit all of society because communities have different generations - if you've ever lived anywhere with almost no social services, you'd know about it. Families have to stay in hospitals 24/7 when loved ones are there, providing food and basic toileting and other care. If someone becomes disabled or unable to work, extended family - usually the younger members - are expected to step up financially and practically.

Trust me, a small increase from the deductions in your wages and a society where people are treated well is well worth it, the problem is historically states like the UK haven't got the balance right. But the so-called high tax, high social services states have very few younger people complaining about what they're contributing to social care which should tell you something.

Because young people already have higher housing costs, little opportunity to make money on savings, higher pension ages & less favourable private pensions, wage stagnation.

I just think the burden should be spread wider.

Where do you think the money should come from then ?

everyone

Young people will benefit from the improved social care too though so why shouldn't they pay towards it.
Someone paying now who only has a few years left at work is very unlikely to benefit from better levels of social care, as I'm sure these changes will take decades to be implemented/funded.

I think if we want to provide good social care it is the price we must pay.

It unfairly impacts the young because no doubt the extra tax they’re paying won’t be funding care by the time they need it themselves. It unfairly impacts the poor who don’t benefit from having a threshold on care costs because they have no assets anyway. It unfairly impacts those in the north where houses are barely worth the £80k threshold, so if they spend £80k there’ll be nothing left. The only ones who benefit are wealthy families who can pay £80k and still have some assets left to pass down. And call me crazy but I don’t think we should be implementing taxes that only benefit the rich!

YABU.

Those over retirement age who are working don’t have to pay NI. That would seem like a good place to start at least? It’s always seemed unfair that they can be on very good salaries and for some reason no longer have to pay NI?

I agree, it would be more fair to increase income tax, or preferably, put a tax on wealth (not including your primary residence).

Young people will benefit from the improved social care too though so why shouldn't they pay towards it.

I guess if the money is ring fenced & proven that it will improve future standards then that may be more palatable. But surely this is just to plug today's gap & with an ageing population we will need further increases?

Where do you think the money should come from then?

Everyone

But it will come from everyone who's working, no matter what their age
As for the retired (of which I'm one) IMO the pension triple lock needs removing, along with some of the jam such as winter fuel payments unless on certain benefits

@Puzzledandpissedoff You don't pay NI after pension age, even if still employed.

www.gov.uk/tax-national-insurance-after-state-pension-age

First of all social care SHOULD NOT be provided by profit seeking private sector companies. Then I might consider it fair to fork out more.
Inheritance tax needs to rise first as well IMHO.

If social care is funded properly now, there will be NO social care at all in the future - when young people will need it themselves.

I swear I heard on r4 this morning that it was going to be an additional tax, not NI. Did I mishear it or have they changed their minds already?

Isn't!

social care is not just about old people.
my adult dc lives in a care home, very few people are above retirement age. just disabled.
not all from birth.

@Blueleah

It unfairly impacts the young because no doubt the extra tax they’re paying won’t be funding care by the time they need it themselves. It unfairly impacts the poor who don’t benefit from having a threshold on care costs because they have no assets anyway. It unfairly impacts those in the north where houses are barely worth the £80k threshold, so if they spend £80k there’ll be nothing left. The only ones who benefit are wealthy families who can pay £80k and still have some assets left to pass down. And call me crazy but I don’t think we should be implementing taxes that only benefit the rich!

This! Nobody in my extended family has any real savings. Never mind home ownership! My other half and I own a little two bed flat valued at £70k that we will retire to in ten /fifteen years and we are desperately hoping we may be able to afford a cheap buy to let. Nothing spectacular, just a house to supplement our state pension. We have spent huge chunks of our lives caring for others. His mum had Alzheimer's and his brother stomach cancer. As the only sibling without a career he was expected to care for them. My son has autism and I've spent the last 22 years caring for him. It's an absolute miracle we are even on the property ladder! We certainly don't have any savings etc.

But it will come from everyone who's working, no matter what their age

I think it's unfair to just target those working as that doesn't necessarily target wealth. Plus it still impacts younger workers more.

You don't pay NI after pension age, even if still employed

You're quite right, and that's another area which could perhaps be looked at - I should have made it clearer that I was referring to those of usual working age

Yanbu, the burden should fall more on older than younger people. I already have to pay an effective extra 15% tax in the form of student loan repayments that older people never had to.

You do know young people get older, don't you op? And that social care is not just for the elderly?
How do you think social care should be funded? Only for those currently paying in?
The basic state pension is a pittance: £179 per week. How much of that would you like to see deducted for social care?
Pensioners who have other income taking them over the tax threshold are taxed just like everyone else and will have been paying NI all their working lives.
The alternative to funding social care is either families picking up the tab or leaving the vulnerable to not cope and die.