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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

998 replies

shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 09:39

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

OP posts:
TractorAndHeadphones · 03/09/2021 20:29

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@TractorAndHeadphones, perhaps you need to read back a bit.[/quote]
Doesn’t matter - your post doesn’t make sense and confused even the OP

CayrolBaaaskin · 03/09/2021 20:29

I agree op - it’s incredibly unfair to charge the working age population for a cap on are costs for pensioners. Even income tax would be fairer as at least it’s paid by all generations. I don’t agree with capping care costs at all though- we pay for care once the money has run out. Why should we all pay extra NI so some people can inherit more from their parents? How is that something we should pay tax for?

Property prices are so high that those with parental help are miles ahead already. Why should we increase that inequality by all paying more tax so the rich can get richer. It’s bonkers. Same with generational inequality- this is going to make it much worse

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/09/2021 20:36

Not a tax expert or economist so do t have an informed view about increasing NI.
However, heard a fact today that astonished me. Last year, for the first time since records began (anywhere) more of the global population was over 65 than under 5.
That’s just not sustainable. As I said, I don’t have the answer but things clearly can’t carry on as they are.

Surely the obvious first step is requiring those pensioners still working and earning over a reasonable threshold to pay NI too?

Georgie8 · 03/09/2021 20:39

Yes, know that, but it’s not right

TractorAndHeadphones · 03/09/2021 20:40

@MrsSkylerWhite

Not a tax expert or economist so do t have an informed view about increasing NI. However, heard a fact today that astonished me. Last year, for the first time since records began (anywhere) more of the global population was over 65 than under 5. That’s just not sustainable. As I said, I don’t have the answer but things clearly can’t carry on as they are.

Surely the obvious first step is requiring those pensioners still working and earning over a reasonable threshold to pay NI too?

You’re right. There’ll come a time when the proportion of working age people paying in wil be too small no matter how much they’re taxed. At this
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 20:42

@MrsSkylerWhite It's a huge issue & no one wants to address it. It really worries me for when I'm old & what the world will look like for my dc.

www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521.amp

Hence why China, quick of the mark announced their 3-child policy.

OP posts:
TractorAndHeadphones · 03/09/2021 20:43

At this point everyone will have to fend for themselves.

Whic is why instead of this ‘inter generational arguing etc’ tax should follow wealth. Being unable to work and earn income (pensioner) doesn’t equal no wealth.

TractorAndHeadphones · 03/09/2021 20:44

[quote shouldbeworkingmore]@MrsSkylerWhite It's a huge issue & no one wants to address it. It really worries me for when I'm old & what the world will look like for my dc.

www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521.amp

Hence why China, quick of the mark announced their 3-child policy. [/quote]
It is however unsustainable to produce more humans on a planet with finite resources, who in order to be supported will need even more humans.

The issue is the longer lifespans.
Retired at 55, died at 60-70 was the nor

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 03/09/2021 20:44

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I agree!!! Remove the triple lock and insist people sell their homes first
How will that work if one half of a couple needs care? You can't make the person who doesn't sell their home.
TractorAndHeadphones · 03/09/2021 20:45

Norm. Now it’s work till … 75?

Also my slipper fingers keep hitting post before ready to apologies.

shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 20:46

There’ll come a time when the proportion of working age people paying in wil be too small no matter how much they’re taxed.

Yep

OP posts:
CattyMcNips · 03/09/2021 20:47

I've no problems with it. I know my parents could afford care if needed but I cannot imagine how scary it would be to have an elderly relative that couldn't. I'm happy to fund the older generation.

XingMing · 03/09/2021 20:50

Higher rate taxpayers contribute more in tax obviously, but they also tend to pay for private education and health insurance, so they do not compete for services with people who earn less. They just pay twice over. And are not very unhappy to do so. So they, having paid their tax bill, they still prefer to make choices about how they educate their children and the delivery of their healthcare. That seems not unreasonable. I have paid my share via taxation, and I still prefer to pay again for health and education. I have paid twice.

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/09/2021 20:52

houldbeworkingmore

@MrsSkylerWhite It's a huge issue & no one wants to address it. It really worries me for when I'm old & what the world will look like for my dc.
Teresa May tried to address it. I’m not political at all, look at manifestos before deciding each time, but that didn’t go well for her.
I thought the proposals were reasonable 🤷‍♀️
We aren’t cash rich by any means but we do own an (now) expensive home. I’m human, clearly I’d like not to be forced into selling it to fund care. When the option though is that other people’s children fund my care, it’s clearly the right thing to do however uncomfortable that may be.

I think May’s proposal was that £100/125K was protected. I think that’s fair. An awful lot of people never manage to amass such a legacy despite working hard all of their lives.

We’ve paid our way all of our lives, why should it be different just because we’re old?

Between us, we’ve paid far more out in taxation than we’ve ever benefited from but we consider ourselves very fortunate to be in the position to do so and have no complaints about that.

Younger people have it tough enough already: our university education, for example, was free and we were given maintenance grants, not loans.

Our young people have risen to the challenges of these past 18 months with grace. To hammer them with further taxation now is just not right.

OverTheRubicon · 03/09/2021 20:52

[quote Hopeisnotastrategy]@OverTheRubicon please state the source of your statistics.[/quote]
I did - the link was right underneath. Hmm

Here it is again though, it's a US site but the wealth inequity is the same in the UK, I saw a similar chart based on UK data in the FT, and am sure it can be found with a search. www.visualcapitalist.com/charting-the-growing-generational-wealth-gap/

CovidCorvid · 03/09/2021 20:56

@XingMing

Higher rate taxpayers contribute more in tax obviously, but they also tend to pay for private education and health insurance, so they do not compete for services with people who earn less. They just pay twice over. And are not very unhappy to do so. So they, having paid their tax bill, they still prefer to make choices about how they educate their children and the delivery of their healthcare. That seems not unreasonable. I have paid my share via taxation, and I still prefer to pay again for health and education. I have paid twice.
That's your choice though. I'm a higher rate tax payer as is dh and neither of us pay for private education or healthcare. I'm happy to pay extra ni for social care and would be happy to do so even if I was paying for private health care. I do think a society should look after people who need help.
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 20:57

@MrsSkylerWhite you have similar views to my parents.

OP posts:
CovidCorvid · 03/09/2021 20:58

I feel more sorry for the non higher rate tax payers who might struggle with this increase. They're going to feel it more than the average higher tax payer.

Blossomtoes · 03/09/2021 20:59

How will that work if one half of a couple needs care? You can't make the person who doesn't sell their home

Perhaps we should change that. I could live with that.

shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 21:00

They're going to feel it more than the average higher tax payer.

Yep

OP posts:
OverTheRubicon · 03/09/2021 21:00

@woodhill houses are included as assets when looking at care homes, but that's actually not a huge percentage of older people, there are far more receiving in-home care. In that case, your house is not considered, even if you're a single person living in a 5 bed detached home worth a large amount.

Reverse mortgages can have major issues if taken out willy nilly, but that principle could have a role to play - either that, where you and any joint-owning partner have the right to stay in your home but with a certain amount of debt held against your housing value, or something similar to the 'death tax' that made people so angry with Theresa May, probably because at heart so many Tories want to have the right to both endless free care AND yet to pay lower taxes and pass their privilege on to their children... Hmm

Blossomtoes · 03/09/2021 21:00

I’m with you @MrsSkylerWhite.

shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 21:02

Yes @OverTheRubicon perhaps a charge could be put on the house for later or something as I'm not sure both should have to leave if only one is ill.

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 03/09/2021 21:02

Today 20:57 shouldbeworkingmore

@MrsSkylerWhite you have similar views to my parents.@shouldbeworkingmore

I might be them 🤣

Bucanarab · 03/09/2021 21:04

Where do you think the money should come from then ?

Realistically? Wealth redistribution policies and ripping up the tax code and starting fresh with none of the current loopholes.

Unrealistically? Cull everyone over 60. Would clear up this problem, free up housing stock and jobs, and help reduce emissions.