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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to pay this bill? Small business related.

124 replies

smallbizwoes · 02/09/2021 23:01

I really don’t know if IABU. I have had lots of good advice from Mumsnetters in the past, so thought I’d post the issue here and see what you guys think.

I have a small online business. A year or so ago, I met a soap manufacturer - also a small business - and asked her to make some custom soaps (Vanilla and Strawberry) for my business. She did, they were great, I paid the bill and took the soaps. All good. I then asked her to make another order, again I was very happy with what she’d made, took the soaps, paid promptly.

The third time, I asked for a new scent to be added to both custom soaps. I did not know this at the time, but the incorporation of the new scents seemed to be outside of the expertise of the soap maker. She said that she needed to buy in the new scents and I offered to pay a deposit. She said there was no need.

She made the soaps and I picked them up with the intention of paying the bill within the next week or so. However, when I got the soaps home, they seemed odd. A bit discoloured. Still never mind, I am sure if there was an issue the soap maker would have said. I assumed that they were still ‘curing’ and that they would be fine.

Within a few days of picking up the soaps, I experienced a family tragedy which meant that I had to travel overseas. I told the soap maker this and that I would deal with the invoice shortly. At this stage, I had every intention of paying the bill.

I was gone longer than I thought, to the point that I had to close down my business. To be honest, I completely forgot about the soaps as I had so much going on. When I returned home, I remembered the soaps and checked on them and they were terrible. The ‘Vanilla’ ones which were meant to be lemon-coloured were dark brown. The ‘Strawberry’ ones seemed to be covered in a weird mould. They had been stored in a climate controlled room, so it wasn’t anything that I had done. They were completely unfit for sale.

By this stage, I hadn’t heard from the soap maker and I assumed that she knew that the soaps hadn’t worked out as she would have kept samples. I did wonder why I hadn’t heard from her and thought maybe she was embarrassed by the soaps or didn’t want to work with me as my project was too difficult. To be honest, I didn’t think about it beyond that.

Anyway, I posted a general query on a public Facebook page. The soap maker added a post to mine, saying how she was ‘Most disappointed’. I contacted her immediately and she told me that unless I paid the bill, she would pass it onto debt collectors. I sent her a picture of the soaps and asked if she was aware of the problems but she didn’t respond to this. She followed up with 2 more emails saying that she expects full payment.

It is not an insignificant amount, it is £500. I know this isn’t her problem, but I had to close down my business and currently have no income.

I feel that because the bars were so terrible, I should not have to pay for them. Or at least I should only have to cover her costs. I just don’t know. What do you guys think? I want to be fair to her but equally I don’t want to lose £500 of money I don’t have for a product that I cannot sell.

OP posts:
Megan2018 · 02/09/2021 23:07

You haven’t dealt with the issue properly so you should pay. You can’t prove the issue with the soap is of the manufacture because you didn’t raise the issue at the time and you agreed to pay and didn’t.
You will very likely be found liable if she takes it to court.

Had to said you were dissatisfied at the time you’d have just cause to reject the items. But you didn’t, so you should pay. You’ve been totally unprofessional I’m afraid.

44PumpLane · 02/09/2021 23:08

I have voted YABU because it was your responsibility to check the product at the time of receipt of goods and to raise and issues or concerns at that point.

The soap maker has no idea that you have stored the soaps properly, she has no idea if you have done anything to them to make them unuseable.

I thi k the fair thing would be to discuss the issue and see if she will settle on a part payment.

Had you been in touch with her promptly with your concerns I'd be on your side.

I get that it sucks as you couldn't anticipate a family emergency, but sometimes it happens and you end up paying.

Mantlemoose · 02/09/2021 23:10

@Megan2018

You haven’t dealt with the issue properly so you should pay. You can’t prove the issue with the soap is of the manufacture because you didn’t raise the issue at the time and you agreed to pay and didn’t. You will very likely be found liable if she takes it to court.

Had to said you were dissatisfied at the time you’d have just cause to reject the items. But you didn’t, so you should pay. You’ve been totally unprofessional I’m afraid.

This
smallbizwoes · 02/09/2021 23:11

The thing is, they didn't look too bad at first. The issues (darkening and mould) have only appeared after a few months. Having done some research myself, it was because she used Vanilla without a colour stabiliser. I did not know that then (as I am not a soap maker) and it seems neither did she.

OP posts:
44PumpLane · 02/09/2021 23:14

It's been several months and you haven't paid or contacted her..... YADBU

ManifestDestinee · 02/09/2021 23:16

You didn;t pay the bill, and left her hanging for months, and then shut down your business, all without paying what you owed. If there was an issue with the product you long since missed the point to raise that.
You owe her, pay up.

Hekatestorch · 02/09/2021 23:19

I think you have dealt with this terribly.

Is it a reverse?

It was months between you picking it up and discovering the issue.

The fact that they went funny, from her point of view, could be down to you. Where you stored them for example.

I understand you had a family tragedy. But it was months between picking them up and you finding you were happy and you still hadn't paid. You could have paid, whilst making arrangements to fly overseas.

And then you decided to post publicly about this?

You can't expect to pick up a product. Not pay for months, make no contact. Then complain months later and when you do, do it publicly and expect her to be all OK with this.

Megan2018 · 02/09/2021 23:19

@smallbizwoes

The thing is, they didn't look too bad at first. The issues (darkening and mould) have only appeared after a few months. Having done some research myself, it was because she used Vanilla without a colour stabiliser. I did not know that then (as I am not a soap maker) and it seems neither did she.
That’s immaterial I’m afraid. You said nothing and agreed to pay, then vanished. The liability is yours.
Hekatestorch · 02/09/2021 23:20

Oh and also, your financial situation has no impact on wether you owe the money or not.

smallbizwoes · 02/09/2021 23:21

I should have dealt with it properly at the time, but I was so distracted with what else was going on. Also it was clear that something was wrong with them, but they gradually got worse and worse to the point where they are not fit for purpose.

OP posts:
3Br1tnee · 02/09/2021 23:22

What kind of soap maker can't change the scent of their soap? I wouldn't pay her, she's having a laugh. If she insisted on pursuing this I'd name and shame with pictures all over the internet.

Hellocatshome · 02/09/2021 23:24

The bit where you discovered the soaps were bad but didn't bother telling her immediately and only mentioned it when she raised the unpaid bill issue is where you went wrong.

Oliveandsage · 02/09/2021 23:28

I’m a small business owner, and although I sympathise with you and agree that the soaps haven’t aged well, you should had flagged this with the maker as soon as you noted they seemed odd on delivery. From the soap makers point of view, it could very well been your actions//treatment of the soaps which had caused the issue.

It would be completely unfair not to pay the maker anything, is it possible to come to an agreement? In my opinion, She should not be out of pocket for materials etc when she was completely unaware there was an issue with the product until months later where it is now not possible for her to rectify as you don’t run your business anymore.

Oliveandsage · 02/09/2021 23:29

@3Br1tnee

What kind of soap maker can't change the scent of their soap? I wouldn't pay her, she's having a laugh. If she insisted on pursuing this I'd name and shame with pictures all over the internet.
It’s completely unfair to do that, the maker didn’t even get a chance to rectify as she was unaware of the problem!

Granted, she shouldn’t have taken on the commission if she couldn’t modify the soaps as required, but she is not the only one at fault here.

Hekatestorch · 02/09/2021 23:31

@smallbizwoes

I should have dealt with it properly at the time, but I was so distracted with what else was going on. Also it was clear that something was wrong with them, but they gradually got worse and worse to the point where they are not fit for purpose.
But you didn't say 'I am not very happy with this batch. Can we revisit when I get home'

You told her on multiple occasions that you would be paying the invoice.

It can be assumed from that, you were happy.

BoredZelda · 02/09/2021 23:33

Also it was clear that something was wrong with them

In which case you should have raised it with her at the time.

It isn’t her fault your business closed or you had to go away for a while. Pay her what you owe.

Wickedwaterwitch · 02/09/2021 23:35

You didn’t tell her there was a problem straight away. But the goods aren’t ok, so she should probably refund you. Posting publicly without first talking to her wasn’t a good idea though.

smallbizwoes · 02/09/2021 23:36

Just to clarify, the post on Facebook was about something unrelated. We are just in the same Facebook group.

OP posts:
Lou98 · 02/09/2021 23:37

@smallbizwoes

I should have dealt with it properly at the time, but I was so distracted with what else was going on. Also it was clear that something was wrong with them, but they gradually got worse and worse to the point where they are not fit for purpose.

If it was clear at the time there was something wrong then you should have raised it then - not told her you would pay your bill then haven't and waited months to now say something is wrong. I run a business myself (not selling stuff) and if someone has an issue I expect them to raise it within 24 hours or so, if someone came to me months later saying they're not paying their bill (which should have been paid months previously) I would think they were trying it on.

As you say, £500 is not an insignificant amount, that probably pays a good portion of her bills. For her, it most definitely will be worth pursuing through small claims courts. It is also highly likely they will side with her as you never raised a complaint, you never let her know there was a problem, you won't win the claim. It will most likely end up costing you more than the original £500 if it ends up there.

YABU, it's unfortunate about your family emergency, but it would have took you 2mins to transfer her the money at the time. The fact your business is now closed down and you don't have an income is irrelevant, you bought a product and you can't just not pay

SylvanasWindrunner · 02/09/2021 23:40

Surely as a small business owner yourself, you know it's totally unfair to just not pay invoices? Confused Did you suggest you didn't think you should pay at all or just fail to pay the invoice?

Hekatestorch · 02/09/2021 23:41

@smallbizwoes

Just to clarify, the post on Facebook was about something unrelated. We are just in the same Facebook group.
So why did she reply to the post saying she was disappointed of it was unrelated?
smallbizwoes · 02/09/2021 23:42

@SylvanasWindrunner Neither really. To be honest, I hadn't thought about it much over the past few months. I did a couple of times wonder why I hadn't heard from her at all (not that it's her responsibility to chase me) and to be honest I thought that she'd realised the soaps were no good so had written them off.

OP posts:
SylvanasWindrunner · 02/09/2021 23:42

I'm guessing she saw the OP posting and wanted to let her know that she'd seen her and was still waiting for her money?

smallbizwoes · 02/09/2021 23:44

@Hekatestorch Yes, I wondered that too. It was business related, but nothing about her. I was asking a question about packaging.

OP posts:
smallbizwoes · 02/09/2021 23:44

I'm guessing she saw the OP posting and wanted to let her know that she'd seen her and was still waiting for her money?

Yes, I think you're right.

OP posts:
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