To think school uniform policy should be enforced?

[Runoverbyllamas]

Otherwise what’s the point?
Why bother to have a uniform, state it in detail online and in welcome packs, and then say nothing when kids aren’t wearing correct uniform?
We’re talking a state school with nothing needing to be logo, supermarket brands are fine and the colours are easily available.

A friend has had enough because she made sure her kids were dressed correctly and then others in the class were wearing leggings, trainers, wrong colours etc, and her kids were getting cross about it. On approaching the Head all she got was ‘be glad you can afford to get the correct uniform’. The kids who hadn’t were in premium brands ffs! Plus my friend actually saved to make sure she had the right things, she doesn’t have a lot of money to spare.
The school PTA also does preloved at very small cost to parents, so there’s just no excuse.
One of the more annoying parents of the kids in trainers told her that ‘PFB doesn’t like school shoes’ as if that’s a good enough reason.
This has been going on for at least a year now, and friend is getting more and more frustrated that nothing is being addressed.

AIBU?

Friend's about to have to move (military family being moved posting) and she's got into a heck of a lot of debt to try to sort out the new school's ridiculously strict uniform.

I hear your friend on the school move thing - mine switched schools right near the end of last year - but I did ring and ask the Head (tiny school so he quite often answers the school phone) if they were OK to swerve logged uniform and just come in in supermarket stuff in the right colour for the tiny remaining bit of the term - which was fine. Ours seem to all start in September in the fancy logo and coloured stuff and then by the end of the year people are just in plain unlogoed supermarket top up stuff.

I like the fact the kids' school HAS a uniform in that it reduces the amount I've got to think on a morning - but I do like the fact that it still allows supermarket clothing and leeway for sensory/motor skills type issues (DD2 can't manage some clothing still - especially post-lockdown after not needing to wear school shirts - she doesn't have the finger strength to do it properly at present and her list of sensory "things" gets longer by the week at the moment)

Just concentrate on your own kids, I'd say! Not sure what is so bad about trainers. My DD wears trainers everyday - much more practical for school. This is allowed by her school, by the way. Lots of the girls wear leggings on P.E days too, tbf not on normal uniform days. But honestly I couldn't get worked up about a DC wearing leggings and trainers. As long as they are comfortable, who cares?

The website and school paperwork stated very clearly what uniform was required, and that they expected it to be worn correctly as it was all widely available from a range of shops, secondhand was available too, and should it not be correct the kids would face sanctions (unspecified).

I can understand why your friend is annoyed, but it’s possible the website hasn’t been changed for years. Often things are more flexible than websites, or formerly uniform lists, would imply, which parents don’t know unless they know the school. Often the Y7s will have the uniform to the last button, so the whole cohort is the same, while the older children have more variation. If pupils start higher up a in a new school, the will differ more from the rest of their classmates. They’ll just have to wear what they have for now (and they won’t be the only pupils wearing the correct uniform whatever they tell their mum) and she can think twice how to replace things when outgrown/outworn.

[quote GreenLakes]@trumpisagit

Trainers are certainly not suitable for any school imo.

Schools are professional environments, which means smart black shoes should be worn.[/quote]
Every post about uniform reveal weird opinions - children have to dress in formal black shoes because it's a professional environment - do trainers offend the professionals because children are not professionals - don't think that's too radical? - Don't you find that uncomfortable, that a whole profession can cope with kids wearing comfortable shoes - school uniform is a really weird fetish, the Brits just can't let go of.

that a whole profession can't cope with kids wearing comfortable shoes

@TheReluctantPhoenix

Schools will never win.

Some parents think uniform is vitally important whereas others don’t want it at all.

Schools are, however, package deals. They are not a la carte.

Of course it is reasonable to complain if you feel that you have been treated unfairly or you think a school has failed to follow its own policy. However, ultimately, only the school sees the whole picture of the needs of individual children. And, ultimately, if you and the school are totally opposed, it is time to move schools.

This response pisses me off! Move schools? Have you tried? There is no choice! All our local schools have banded together on the superficial uniform thing - so tell me where to move my kids - there is no fucking choice from the madness that insists that people need to dress the same to succeed.

Debate about uniform aside, the best option for your friend would've been to have been told clearly what the uniform actually is. And what they actually expect.

And if their policy didn't include logoed items from the beginning, that would have been ideal.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Sirfredfredgeorge

Uniform is given away free:

• at stalls by school
• on the local facebook page
• on the class list app
• on local whatsapp groups

This is communicated in letters and emails from school, widely by word of mouth, with adverts on the notice board by the local shops etc. Honestly you have to put effort in to not be able to manage to get some.

Effort that you are required to put in because you are poor. Because if you are poor you are clearly feckless and lazy and have loads of free time? Ever heard of the working poor - who do several jobs just to exist? You live under a bloody stone. None of this is easily available where I live.

As far as I know, none of those places offer uniform for free in my son's school. Best I know is a little fair where each item will 50p, but have no idea if my son's school is amongst that.

@inappropriateraspberry

All those saying they may not be able to afford uniform - there are grants/free uniform available for those that are struggling. It is not a surprise - all parents know if there is uniform in the local schools, so can prepare. I always see inform for sale or free on Facebook - it's not expensive for the basics in the right colours.

That is not universal! It depends on the school what they spend their pupil premium on.

When my DD started Primary I was very unwell and in hospital so money was very tight. The school were great and let us go in the school 2nd hand shop where we could get items for 50p. This undoubtedly saved me a lot of money. I managed to get 2 pinafores, a polo, a fleece, a P.E t-shirt and shorts in her size. They also gave her a free water bottle and said not to worry with black shoes/trainers - she could just wear the pink sparkly trainers she had! I still had to buy a pinafore, a pack of polos, tights/socks, plimsolls, book bag, cardigan, P.E bag, joggers and hoodie. Also got her some school hair accessories which while not essential I wanted her to look nice. Cost around £100 which was a fortune to me at the time.

I must remember to tell my GP she's not professional, maybe she should consider a shirt and tie combo.

Might pop in and speak to my solicitor too.

My DC are parents themselves, with 3 DGC starting school this week . I work in a school with a very mixed catchment . My thoughts are uniform makes life in the morning a doddle , it’s a spun line that people can’t afford uniform , it’s going to be the haves who will wear expensive clothes and trainers and the obvious have nots who will be put under pressure to come up with clothes their families can’t afford . So students will have a self made uniform of designer clothes. The punishment for not conforming is ridicule instead of detention. Uniform is a leveller . Our 6form is non uniform, but by this age they are savvy enough to be their own people who aren’t impressed by clothes one way or the other .

3 children were expelled from our primary school because they took the school logo off the school top. Wearing a logo went against their religious beliefs. The head wasn't prepared to compromise.

@Popetthetreehugger

My DC are parents themselves, with 3 DGC starting school this week . I work in a school with a very mixed catchment . My thoughts are uniform makes life in the morning a doddle , it’s a spun line that people can’t afford uniform , it’s going to be the haves who will wear expensive clothes and trainers and the obvious have nots who will be put under pressure to come up with clothes their families can’t afford . So students will have a self made uniform of designer clothes. The punishment for not conforming is ridicule instead of detention. Uniform is a leveller . Our 6form is non uniform, but by this age they are savvy enough to be their own people who aren’t impressed by clothes one way or the other .

I have said before on this thread that uniform is not a leveller in any way shape or form. It is bull that it is. Students still know who is poor and who has money. Students going to school with holes in their shoes while others have brand new shoes as and when needed. Cleaning of uniform (and themselves) is also a big clue to a lot of people.

Other countries manage perfectly well without uniform and if they do have a uniform it is normally a lot more basic than in the UK and they certainly don't have the draconian rules that you will be excluded if you have black instead of white socks on etc.......

Of a uniform is needed it should be a very basic uniform of a plain, non branded tracksuit with a polo shirt available from a variety of supermarkets. Schools should not be allowed to specify branding, they should certainly not be allowed to give contracts to sole suppliers of uniform.

It might be obvious to children who the poorest kids are, but not having a uniform is an extra way in which children can be picked on or feel lesser than their peers. And it extends right through the spectrum of wealth. I don’t think it is helpful for children of any social background to feel pressure at school to have the ‘right’ trainers or latest gear. You’ll never eliminate it of course, but uniform reduces that pressure.

I think the answers are probably:
-simple uniform with minimal/no branded items
-fairly enforced (giving children and parents a chance to remedy if they don’t have the uniform, but not a ‘free for all’ where people are routinely floating the rules so they can show off their trainers)
-options (second hand sales, loans, financial support) for those on lowest incomes
-good pastoral care that recognises signs that children not in uniform may need investigation for the underlying reason, not immediate punishment.

@so750

3 children were expelled from our primary school because they took the school logo off the school top. Wearing a logo went against their religious beliefs. The head wasn't prepared to compromise.

I do hope their parents challenged this, as its a direct breach of the official guidance on the part of the school. They could also get sued for discrimination.

For many children it's not about the uniform being available free or cheap or grants being available it's about the household functioning enough to be able to have it available regularly. If mum hasn't got out of bed all week and oldest child has been trying keep little ones fed, it's unlikely laundry has been done.

I've had a situation where a child left their uniform (that school had given him) with a teacher, who took it home to wash because if it went home with him it got sold

Has anyone considered that some parents just don't care about school uniform?

I can more than afford the proper stuff but my son goes in the supermarket version because it doesn't really matter. It's not all about poverty.

At times it's impossible to know what goes on in people's houses - but punishing and shouting at kids for their parent's decision on school uniform is fucked up bullying shit and it still goes on regularly at primary and secondary and these kids are still scared, embarrassed and humiliated and it still happens regularly - who thinks of these kids - do they not matter?

Yeah your friend needs to butt out.
I used to work in a school.
Kids who didn’t wear uniform long term (ie we always had a few one or two eaters with mum forgot to dry uniform, left my school shoes at dads and won’t see him til Wednesday etc) were either…

in abject poverty (yeah they had Nike trainers but they were there only pair of shoes for their whole life for a year, for pe for home for school)...

SEN with Sensory issues

Or sick. Like had ehlers danlos, or cancer with dry skin from treatment that meant they needed soft clothes, or had eating disorders that mean regular clothes hung off them, or had a stoma so the stretchy top band of leggings kept it nice and neat.

Your friends being a knob.

@LegendaryReady

For many children it's not about the uniform being available free or cheap or grants being available it's about the household functioning enough to be able to have it available regularly. If mum hasn't got out of bed all week and oldest child has been trying keep little ones fed, it's unlikely laundry has been done.

I've had a situation where a child left their uniform (that school had given him) with a teacher, who took it home to wash because if it went home with him it got sold

Yes this too! 🥺 you’ve just reminded me of a little boy B, who I used to give breakfast every morning. He’d be going into year eleven this week. I do hope he’s ok ♥️💔💔

@Boomclaps

Clearly there are some DC who are either unable to wear uniform or circumstances make it difficult for them to do so.

However ime the vast majority of DC are perfectly capable of wearing correct uniform- the issue is either parents not bothering/ wanting to appease DC/ DC themselves not complying.

As I said earlier, DS wasn’t exactly thrilled at having to wear shorts to school all year until year 6. However, my role as a parent was to ensure he wore his uniform correctly and so he did with no issue. The vast majority of parents could and should be doing the same.

@LegendaryReady

For many children it's not about the uniform being available free or cheap or grants being available it's about the household functioning enough to be able to have it available regularly. If mum hasn't got out of bed all week and oldest child has been trying keep little ones fed, it's unlikely laundry has been done.

I've had a situation where a child left their uniform (that school had given him) with a teacher, who took it home to wash because if it went home with him it got sold

But to a greater or lesser extent you’ve got that problem with or without uniform - they need to wear clothes, ultimately!

Uniform has the advantage of being able to disguise the kids who are wearing the same school shirt every day of the week - unless it’s really stained or smelly no-one will notice, you can get away with it. But if you’re not in uniform, people will notice that you’ve been wearing the same T-shirt for days at a time, or that you only have 3 t-shirts that you’ve been wearing all year on rotation.

But GreenLakes making a child wear shorts all year round until they are 11 is ridiculous. There's no rational reason for doing it, it's just the school caring more about their 'image' than about their students' wellbeing. That's the sort of uniform obsessiveness that I have a problem with. I get it, the UK is obsessed with uniform and ascribed mythical qualities of egalitarianism and bullying prevention to it. It's like a religion, and it will take time for the UK to outgrow their childish faith in the power of uniform.
But at least make it comfortable, practical, affordable for all. All these people going on about how 'everywhere' has free uniform and second hand stalls - that is simply not true.

DumplingsAndStew

I must remember to tell my GP she's not professional, maybe she should consider a shirt and tie combo.

Might pop in and speak to my solicitor too.

No Dumplings, you’ve missed the point of the post you were referring to. Doctors and solicitors are professionals environments, therefore you must always wear black shoes when you go to the surgeries/offices to consult them!