To think shyness ruins your life?

[shylady75]

I’ve always been chronically shy. School was a real ordeal for me - I never made many friends and whenever the teacher singled me out I would go bright red and freeze up. This made me an easy target for bullies from a young age.

In adulthood I hoped things would improve as I got older but they never did - I now blush and sweat profusely whenever any sort of attention is directed towards me.

I was a straight A student at school but never achieved much career-wise, and I blame my shyness for this. Let’s face it, no one wants to hire the blushing sweaty awkward person over someone ‘normal’, no matter how good their CV.

I do have a lovely DH and two DC, who are also showing signs of shyness and that worries me a lot - the last thing I want is for them to turn out like me and struggle the way I did.

I see a lot in the media about people being more accepting of mental health issues, but shyness to the extent that you’re blushing and sweating is still a big taboo.

AIBU to think shyness is a terrible condition that ruins lives?

I'm not disagreeing as I'm not shy in a traditional sense.

But I'm going to give a "grass is always greener" side of the story.

I appear confident. But it's more out of anxiety that I talk. Too much. About shit.

So then after a situation I can have hours/days of regret and wish I was a quiet person!

I've found my people. Sertaline, and also getting older, have helped. But I refuse to present in work and have a lower paid job as a result. I spent about 10 years trying to develop my presenting skills, resulting in panic attacks, etc. I would've taken beta blockers but asthma meant I couldn't. I eventually realised that I wasn't going to be good at everything, so I'll put my energies into things I can do. For me, that's 1 to 1 communication. Also, I've become more at ease with saying to my colleagues, I have anxiety, so please don't put me on to present etc.

Actually maybe I'm confusing anxiety with shyness?

I'm not sure I'd use the word shy, would have as a child. Now I know I have social anxiety that's what I think of it as. I also have GAD, and trauma related mental health issues. I've been through periods where my social anxiety is absolutely crippling and others where it's limiting but not so overwhelming. Though I still can't even have an ordinary phone conversation with a friend, when I had them. I've had to push myself completely out of my comfort zone for my DC, stand up against STBXH, phone people, push for them to get them help and assessments for SEN, push the school for supports, chase up things, fight their corner. All the while dealing with crashingly low self esteem and losing the few friends I had.

My 10 year old DD has social anxiety, GAD and is I think Autistic, she's on a waitlist for assessment. I'm very aware I'm not a good role model for my DC. She's had some improvement from attending group CBT counselling for anxious children. I pushed myself through a lot to get her there. I'd love to do some CBT around my social anxiety, the work DD did on stepladders and challenging fears was really useful. I really think it can help if you can find the right psychologist. I've been trying to make little changes on the school run, don't have much other adult contact, saying hi, joining a group on the edge, parents of DS friends, adding the occasional comment. I'm trying to view it as social skills practice, a friendship doesn't need to result and if they think I'm a bit standoffish or struggle for words or talk a bit too much, it's still ok. Sometimes my anxiety goes the other way and I can't shut up and say things that make me cringe and fixate after. But I'm trying to treat myself the way I do my DD and remind myself that it's ok to mess up and other people will forget these things a lot faster than I do, or might not even really notice them. I think it can be soul destroying and ruin your life, but i don't think it has to be those things.

@shylady75

I’ve always been chronically shy. School was a real ordeal for me - I never made many friends and whenever the teacher singled me out I would go bright red and freeze up. This made me an easy target for bullies from a young age.

In adulthood I hoped things would improve as I got older but they never did - I now blush and sweat profusely whenever any sort of attention is directed towards me.

I was a straight A student at school but never achieved much career-wise, and I blame my shyness for this. Let’s face it, no one wants to hire the blushing sweaty awkward person over someone ‘normal’, no matter how good their CV.

I do have a lovely DH and two DC, who are also showing signs of shyness and that worries me a lot - the last thing I want is for them to turn out like me and struggle the way I did.

I see a lot in the media about people being more accepting of mental health issues, but shyness to the extent that you’re blushing and sweating is still a big taboo.

AIBU to think shyness is a terrible condition that ruins lives?

I do sympathise as I'm a natural introvert and also found (and find) it hard to make friends.

However, I can assure you, I went on to have a very good career and I have hired a blushing, sweaty, awkward person before. A good interviewer can look past nerves and shyness.

Shyness won't stop you from getting hired if you turn up to the interview. I will freely admit though that it can make you doubt yourself and want to not turn up in the first place (and if you don't show, you can't get hired).

I don't think shyness ruins lives, but I do think it's a lot harder to be an introvert than it is to be an extrovert. Society is more geared up to accept bubbly, loud people who have no problem making loads of friends.

@NatashaRf

I'm not disagreeing as I'm not shy in a traditional sense.

But I'm going to give a "grass is always greener" side of the story.

I appear confident. But it's more out of anxiety that I talk. Too much. About shit.

So then after a situation I can have hours/days of regret and wish I was a quiet person!

I do both, struggle to speak and other times can't shut up and kick myself later. I'm trying to remember that my behaviour isn't as big a part of other people's thoughts as it is mine. If someone talks a lot I'm honestly quite happy to listen and would most likely be breathing s sigh of relief I'm not trying to think of things to say.

I'm on anxiety medication too, but it doesn't help with my social anxiety, more my general anxiety level and my panic attacks.

I'm trying to teach DD it's ok to answer what you really want when someone asks or to tell them you don't like what they're doing. She's a people pleaser like me. I'm hoping the active encouragement and reassurance will help. We're also doing ongoing CBT. I don't want her to spend her life putting herself last and trying to make everyone else happy.

I was very shy as a child. Repeatedly told so by my mum. Now i look back and realise i was too scared of being rejected. Because my mum just didn't interact with me, snapped at me loads and generally led me to believe i was unlikeable.

That certainly affected me. I see dd sometimes being shy. I ignore it. I also make sure that I listen and laugh with her. Spend time with her to show she is a valuable person. (My mother still thinks it is funny to call me pathetic, useless and hopeless even now - it's a wonder i have any confidence at all!).

Help your kids by showing them that they are valuable people. They will much less scared of social rejection and resiliant as they grow up.

OP you've got two kids so you must have talked to some bloke and shagged him at least twice, right?
You may have got married. You might have had to buy a wedding dress and many other clothes in your life. You go into shops. You were at school. You spoke to teachers. You might even have a job. Or if not spoke to people in shops and offices. Rang to get a doctor's appointment a few times. Went to the dentist, told them what was wrong.
ERGO. You have functioned pretty well as a human being thus far if I'm not very much mistaken.
Your problem is 'uncomfortable feelings' sometimes when doing stuff that involves other people. These uncomfortable feelings might shape your behaviour sometimes.
There's a lot in 'shy'. The word is not that descriptive and means a lot of different things to different people and has many levels.
Your issue is not the 'shyness' but how worried about it you are, how much time you spend thinking about it and what conclusions you draw about yourself when you get those uncomfortable feelings.

Is this more of a social anxiety? As you might be able to go to the doctor and see if there’s something they can do.

Also, invest in a good foundation if you are worried about blushing. Something slightly lighter than your skin tone. It will give you more confidence.

@loserloser - please change your username for starters!! People who make you feel bad do it because it makes them feel superior. Can you imagine anyone saying to an extrovert "bloody hell you're loud, do you ever shut up, you do my head in with your big gob" - no, because they'd get a mouthful back! It's their shitty behaviour, not yours

I was terribly shy as a child and my dad was too. My mum saw it coming out in us kids and didnt want us to lead as restricted a life as my Dad. She trained to be a youth worker as she knew we would struggle to attend without her-and she wanted us to play and mingle. Very insightful of her really. This is one very specific approach but is there a club or activity you can sign up to as a family so your children have exposure to different people and things but without being too distressing for them. One family i know do a karate class together for example. I talk to my children openly about my shyness and often say gosh i felt really nervous about getting started but I absolutely loved that and would be happy to do it again.

I am still naturally shy by default but have learnt to cope and fake it till i make it-and the older i get and the more open conversations i have with fellow professionals the more i realise everyone is battling something which effects their performance at times. There is no such thing as 'normal'.

I work in an industry which a lot of shy people gravitate too and a high number of my team have autism. They have really struggled at interview in particular in some cases. But i don't write people off if they can do they job well. Most interviews these days are quite informal and relaxed-you root for the candidate-a bad interview is shit for everyone. I prefer eye contact and a nervous smile and even someone admitting they are nervous is fine. Again-i think people are less bothered then you think. And you can say its something you want to work on etc.

You might not be able to change but you can work with it and teach your kids some good habits. I had a parent i saw avoid ANYTHING that made them remotely uncomfortable. So the other parent had to step up massively to compensate.

Society definitely prefers extroverts. I hate how a personality trait is picked on like it's a weakness. In my school reports it was mentioned about being quiet/shy. What has that got to do with educational achievement. My DS is now starting school and is quite shy, despite him being at nursery since he was 9 months old. He had a lovely group of friends and I'm gutted they're not going to the same school as him as I remember how hard it was to make friends. They also wrote in his nursery report about how quiet he was which annoyed me. I want to know about his achievements in the eyfs not his personality

Interested to know @MsTSwift 's Mumsnet-banned methods are too!

I expect they might be similar to the ones I've employed with my DS (who is prone to shyness) which is to make him to do the things that make him feel uncomfortable, i.e. from an early age, if he wanted an ice-cream he had to go into the shop and ask for one; I refused to ask for him. At restaurants, if he wanted Fish and Chips, he had to order it (or else I'd order him something less appealing). I made him call grandparents on the phone to thank them for gifts (or he didn't get to play with the gift). When we were visiting our friends/family, I brought him into conversation, even though he was squirming with embarrassment and I knew he'd prefer to say nothing (e.g. "Tell Aunt Sue what happened when we went to the farm on Tuesday").

This technique is not very Mumsnet PC (and it obviously wouldn't work on a really shy child, who would be happy to forgo the ice-cream to avoid talking to a shopkeeper!) but it's certainly helped my DS be more confident in social situations.

Pointing out to/in front of a child that they are shy or quiet is the most unhelpful thing you can do as it drums it into them that that's how they are and makes them feel like crap. Lots of teachers were like this at my school. What is the point - just encourage them as much as possible.

@LargeBouquet

What, if anything, have you done to combat it?

Nice bit of victim blaming going on there!

Agree with person who said shyness might actually be ASD. I'm also clever (MA passed with distinctions) but I feel clueless in a real job in a way others just don't seem to. My son has ASD and his assessor was very clear that it had definitely come from somewhere ie me or his dad. I don't think either of us are NT to be honest both show a lot of dyspraxic and asd traits.

@Dippydinosaurus

Society definitely prefers extroverts. I hate how a personality trait is picked on like it's a weakness. In my school reports it was mentioned about being quiet/shy. What has that got to do with educational achievement. My DS is now starting school and is quite shy, despite him being at nursery since he was 9 months old. He had a lovely group of friends and I'm gutted they're not going to the same school as him as I remember how hard it was to make friends. They also wrote in his nursery report about how quiet he was which annoyed me. I want to know about his achievements in the eyfs not his personality

Yep, it annoys me too how teachers seem to constantly mention the child being quiet/shy as if it's something that can be "cured". What do the teachers expect the parent to do about it??

In my case, my shyness was made worse by teachers who'd pick me out to answer questions or go and write something on the board, or do presentations, etc. It doesn't work! Just makes things worse. And yes, being a gibbering wreck in front of your classmates, just gives them ammunition for bullying later on.

You can't just "cure" a shy/introverted person by making them answer a question or stand up and talk in class. You'd think that there'd be something in teacher training as to how to properly deal with shyness in classes, wouldn't you?

@suckingonchillidogs

Pointing out to/in front of a child that they are shy or quiet is the most unhelpful thing you can do as it drums it into them that that's how they are and makes them feel like crap. Lots of teachers were like this at my school. What is the point - just encourage them as much as possible.

Yes. I'm a teacher. Children adopt what they're consistently told about themselves as part of their self-identity. Tell a child they're anything often enough and they will believe it and become it.

Every teacher should know this; it's the reason we were trained to, and are assessed on, our ability to set high expectations.

I had a blushing problem in my teens and 20s.

It was awful! But more so because I'm not particularly shy, and sometimes I wouldn't even realise I was blushing until someone would point it out.

When I did get embarrassed about something I'd definitely blush but I'd burn and sweat also so I knew the difference.

I'm early 40s now and still have moments of blushing but I genuinely don't care now so it's no problem. I did hypnotherapy once for it which I think helped me accept it and move on.

I think it throws people because I'll stand up and talk in a meeting, sound confident but might blush.

@Dippydinosaurus

Society definitely prefers extroverts. I hate how a personality trait is picked on like it's a weakness. In my school reports it was mentioned about being quiet/shy. What has that got to do with educational achievement. My DS is now starting school and is quite shy, despite him being at nursery since he was 9 months old. He had a lovely group of friends and I'm gutted they're not going to the same school as him as I remember how hard it was to make friends. They also wrote in his nursery report about how quiet he was which annoyed me. I want to know about his achievements in the eyfs not his personality

But extroversion/introversion has nothing to do with shyness or social anxiety. The sole distinction between extrovert and introverts is in the manner in which they 'recharge', in solitude or in company. You would not necessarily be able to tell the difference between them as they behave in company.

@AnyFucker

What, if anything, have you done to combat it

It isn’t something that you can really just decide to “combat”

I did. At school I was quite shy. When I got on the train to go off to University, I told myself I was not going to be shy any more. I got off the train not shy. An act of will. I have not been shy since. That was nearly 60 years ago.

I think you're talking about social anxiety which can respond to therapy. If you are socially anxious you are likely to pass this to your children as you'll unintentionally be modelling unhelpful thinking habits and behaviours in response to worrying about what other people think of you/how you are going to come across etc.

@AnyFucker

It isn’t something that you can really just decide to “combat”

Plenty of people do. You might not have had success with it but please don’t make out like it’s beyond the reach of others.

@PyjamasAndWellies

I'm the same OP and it definitely has had massive impact on my life. The worst part is my career (or lack of) I freeze and my brain just shuts down in any kind of social or work situation where I'm expected to contribute. Like you said - people only want to hire someone "normal" who will fit in

I also have two DC and am terrified of them ending up like me. They are both already showing signs, but how can I help them if I cant even help myself?

I have previously been on fairly strong anxiety meds and they helped a lot with the blushing and sweating (and unexpectedly helped me get over my fear of driving) but I still struggled with actually talking to people

@MadameMonk - thank you so much for this post, something I will be giving a lot of thought

Yes, same here. I only managed to stay in previous jobs for between 1 and 3 years due to becoming overwhelmed by extroverted people around me. I'm fine in a 1-2-1 situation, i.e. sharing an office with another person, or meetings with just one other person where I can talk and work confidently. But I can't function in larger groups, whether at work, or socially, I just freeze, don't engage, don't participate, etc. I've never under-delivered workwise and always get good reviews in appraisals, etc., but as time passes, I always feel friction from other staff and (rightly or wrongly) I start to feel criticised, and the target of jokes, snide comments, etc. Ultimately, I feel uncomfortable and end up leaving for another job.

After a few firms like that, I started my own business. The nature of my profession means that most things can be done remotely, without meetings, without staff on site, etc., so that's how I've developed my business over the last 20 years. Most client interactions are by email/online systems or facetime, as are more worker/employee relations. By working remotely/online, I can easily limit interactions to 1-2-1, which is my comfort zone.

TrickyD

^ I did this too! I said what would happen if I arrived and acted as if I wasn't shy. Changed everything for me for good.