to be pleased with the Ofcam ruling on Piers Morgan

[TeloMere]

Even though I can't stand the bloke?

When you exchange vows, it is known as 'marriage' in many countries and cultures and traditions.
When you exchange vows and sign the marriage certificate after the ceremony, it is known as 'marriage' (or Legal Marriage) in many countries and cultures and traditions.

Don't you get it? BOTH are referred to as marriage, even though only one has legal validity.

Sorry, you’re alleging racism towards Californians…?

Denying the experiences of someone from a different culture is racist, however much you try to dress it up

It certainly would be if that happened.

[quote CorrBlimeyGG]@Blossomtoes Denying the experiences of someone from a different culture is racist, however much you try to dress it up.

This thread is horrible. Anyone happy to denigrate another woman needs to take a good look at themselves.[/quote]
Thank you! I'm shocked at the blatant, unrepentant and obvious racism in this thread. The racist ignorance is horrific, and any non-UK person who tries to explain is told they are tedious. Tedious for trying to educate some who are determined not to understand that different cultures have different vernacular and turn of phrase.

@Serenster

Sorry, you’re alleging racism towards Californians…?

And African Americans.

And any culture who is told, NO, there is only one definition of marriage, and all other definitions are wrong.

Tedious for banging on ad nauseum.

@Blossomtoes So you are saying you don't deny that different cultures have different meanings for words then? So you are denying everything you said previously? If not, then you prove it happened.

@Blossomtoes

Tedious for banging on ad nauseum.

Yes unfortunately I have to because of the ignorant racists on here. They are slow learners.

@DottyHarmer

Some posters on here sound rather sinister. Only the “correct” views are to be tolerated. What is the correct view? What if someone found with a knife in their hand and a body on the ground says, “I’m innocent” ? Do we have to believe them, or are we allowed to express doubts and attempt to prove them guilty?

What about Prince Andrew? His truth may well be that he was in the Woking Pizza Express at “the time in question” . Do we believe him? By some posters’ logic, yes we should.

From what I've seen, most posters have supported Ofcom's ruling. This is even true of those who hold the opinion that Morgan is a twat suffering from a particularly aggressive case of verbal incontinence.

The question of whether ITV chooses to continue employing him or otherwise is a separate one. The nuances of Ofcom's report suggest that the challenging of his Free Speech by others also exercising Free Speech brought adequate balance to the discussion, ergo the programme did its job and was able to swerve any accusations of bias.

Doesn't mean Morgan isn't still a liability. This kind of grinding, obsessive personal vendetta also has a tendency to become really boring after a while.

www.thedailybeast.com/marriage-certificate-proves-harry-and-meghan-did-not-marry-in-their-backyard-as-they-told-oprah

@FreddyKreugersWife I'm afraid you will argue till you are blue in the face. This is one point that the anti Meghan brigade hold on to with their might as they don't really have anything else worth much. It's just easier to accuse her on this and harder to defend.

As a previous poster said, the so called lies were dissected, by a publication ( I think Private Eye of all publications) and found not to be true. I can believe it. I did not read them, but someone once showed me one of those so called lies. It was a picture of MM with her sister Samantha and a claim that MM was with her during graduation in a certain year. She showed me that the 'evidence' of a close up of the graduation certificate that Samatha was holding was totally different to the one in the original picture. The logo was in the wrong place for a start - on the bottom on one picture and on top on another picture and was really not the same certificate (the point was to say MM had seen her on certain dates). I think people do not read, but while they are willing to question MM, they will readily believe the DM. It was the DM which came with the original list of lies and the Irish Times and others reported from what I gather.

Back to your point.
MM looks and "acts white' to a lot of people. Some people who may not view themselves as racist, will say she is just like say Blake Lively - except not really. So every time her 'black' side comes out, they get a shock and suspicion. Eg, they don't like her racism accusations etc. They also do not like her showing other cultural differences like the marriage. This just jars.

On my travels to the US and interactions with people of colour , I have found the USA in general does not celebrate Kwanda, but it does not stop black people from making a big deal out of it. I was also surprised to find a lot of black people with what sounded like muslim names when they are really not.
In the UK they like to compartmentalise , and MM does not fit the pre-determined boxes. So here people understand an African, Asian or Middle Eastern etc. having pre-set known rules and regulations. Anything else seems odd. Unfortunately, the media is also pressing for these stereotypes and pushing forward the idea that what she said was false, too many were happy to grab this straw.
Good on you for having an open mind though.

What is California culture? Last time I checked the state is mixed, with a huge south American culture, that may not all be recognised legally.

[quote luckylavender]www.thedailybeast.com/marriage-certificate-proves-harry-and-meghan-did-not-marry-in-their-backyard-as-they-told-oprah[/quote]
Ummmm Of course they didn't LEGALLY marry in their backyard! Are you on glue? Do you really not understand the difference between a private vow exchange, and a legal official ceremony?

Found the explanation I was looking for - although your MO seems to be 'believe MM at all costs, claim everyone who disagrees with me is a racist' so I don't imagine it will have any effect on you 20 pages in @FreddyKreugersWife

"Meghan’s other culture however is American, and specifically Californian. The laws of California are equally clear: there is no concept of a “common law marriage” there either. The couple to be married have to present themselves before a registrar, say the necessary words to consent to marriage and fill out the appropriate paperwork (this all happens at the same time). So growing up Meghan would have understood very well what the concept of marriage was, and it the same as it is here. Attempts to spin a fantasy that she must have been referring to something else, based on other cultures which she is not a part of, comes across as an almighty stretch.

She also changed her evidence in her court case against Associated Newspapers Limited, something that would not have been necessary if she had been accurate when she first signed her witness statement and declaration of truth"

She knew perfectly well that she wasn't married 3 days prior to the wedding - and Harry could have corrected her there and then if she was as deluded as you're making her out to be. Being married and exchanging private vows in a garden with no witnesses or legal formalities are very, very different - and they both knew it.

Yes, but he's still a mega pig and he walked out of a live broadcast because someone called him out. Diddums. BYE.

@ohtobeyoungagain Thank you. It's frustrating that they are so proudly racist and ignorant, and yes I do think if she were white and grew up in the UK their attitudes would be different, it's because it's Meghan and they are desperate for any reason to hate her.

@MaMelon

Found the explanation I was looking for - although your MO seems to be 'believe MM at all costs, claim everyone who disagrees with me is a racist' so I don't imagine it will have any effect on you 20 pages in *@FreddyKreugersWife*

"Meghan’s other culture however is American, and specifically Californian. The laws of California are equally clear: there is no concept of a “common law marriage” there either. The couple to be married have to present themselves before a registrar, say the necessary words to consent to marriage and fill out the appropriate paperwork (this all happens at the same time). So growing up Meghan would have understood very well what the concept of marriage was, and it the same as it is here. Attempts to spin a fantasy that she must have been referring to something else, based on other cultures which she is not a part of, comes across as an almighty stretch.

She also changed her evidence in her court case against Associated Newspapers Limited, something that would not have been necessary if she had been accurate when she first signed her witness statement and declaration of truth"

She knew perfectly well that she wasn't married 3 days prior to the wedding - and Harry could have corrected her there and then if she was as deluded as you're making her out to be. Being married and exchanging private vows in a garden with no witnesses or legal formalities are very, very different - and they both knew it.

You are still not getting it. She and her culture still refers to private vow exchange as marriage. You simply cannot seem to be able to separate the legal entity, from the personal and cultural. Nothing you posted proves anything I've said incorrect.

You're the one not getting her. Her Californian background means that she is perfectly well aware that the private exchange of vows in a back garden does not mean they are married.

Her husband - sitting right next to her when she made this spurious claim - certainly was and should have stepped in there and then to clear up the confusion.

*not getting it

@MaMelon

You're the one not getting her. Her Californian background means that she is perfectly well aware that the private exchange of vows in a back garden does not mean they are married.

Her husband - sitting right next to her when she made this spurious claim - certainly was and should have stepped in there and then to clear up the confusion.

For the umpteenth time, she knows they are not LEGALLY married. But she considers it a marriage.

Do you not understand that there are TWO definitions of marriage? The legal one, and the non-legal one?

And any culture who is told, NO, there is only one definition of marriage, and all other definitions are wrong.

The issue here is that marriage is a legal covenant in both the US and the UK. 'Common law', or de facto marriage does not exist. Meghan is of dual heritage, but she grew up in the US. Pagan people who commit in ceremonies such as handfasting, for example, might also consider themselves married (and can commit either for a year or eternity), but married, they are not. It's also interesting when the two people involved in that ceremony are of a different view on this: take Patricia Keneally and Jim Morrison!

Personally I think all that's an aside, given that this supposed flagrant, big black lie is a mere detail. It's not important. Who cares whether they did or didn't exchange vows in whatever formal/informal capacity beforehand? This is just fodder raked up by an unrelenting Daily Mail, who have driven a relentless campaign against her from the beginning and have ramped it up because they're pissed off that she sued them. Bullying one woman to the extent she felt suicidal and compelled to leave the country sits deeply uncomfortably with me, and would, had her behaviour been far worse that this woman's. As far as I can figure out her worst crime is to have a mind of her own and an independent existence before marriage.

I don't think the accusations of racism are helping your argument to any degree, although I do think you're right about the 'casting the net', 'gold-digging' arguments being so frequently levelled against women. I find that depressing.

For the umpteenth time right back at you, then she would have known that it wasn't a marriage - it was a private exchange of vows. She would know this because she is Californian and knows that she wasn't married three days before her marriage at Windsor.

She's not as deluded or stupid as you're making her out to be. She's a media savvy woman who knows exactly what to say in front of a camera.

I'll also repeat - because you're ignoring this point - her husband was sitting there and should have/could have immediately cleared up any confusion.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks One definition of marriage is a legal covenant everywhere. Another definition is a personal and cultural one. As it is in America. The inability of posters to understand that there is a second definition in many countries such as America, and many cultures such as African American certainly is racist, so I call it as it is. When it is pointed out, the normal response is to say 'ok, thanks, I didn't know that'. Not to argue with a black woman and double down in denial.

@MaMelon

For the umpteenth time right back at you, then she would have known that it wasn't a marriage - it was a private exchange of vows. She would know this because she is Californian and knows that she wasn't married three days before her marriage at Windsor.

She's not as deluded or stupid as you're making her out to be. She's a media savvy woman who knows exactly what to say in front of a camera.

I'll also repeat - because you're ignoring this point - her husband was sitting there and should have/could have immediately cleared up any confusion.

For the umpteenth time private exchange of vows IS ALSO A DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE!

And Harry clearly didn't correct her because he knew what she meant and didn't think UK posters were so dumb or so racist.

NOT IN A FORMAL SENSE IT ISN'T. She knew perfectly well what the difference was - they weren't married 3 days prior, they exchanged vows privately. She's a consummate communicator, she knew exactly what she was saying.

Your claims of racism are becoming really tedious. Is that really all you've got at this stage?

But Freddy you are missing the important bit, context. They didn't just say they'd exchanged vows or got married, they said they'd got 'married' 3 days before the 'public spectacle'. Kind of suggesting we'd all been hoodwinked.

Just agree to disagree! You think it was an innocent comment, most of know they were suggesting we'd all been fooled.

I've no idea why anyone can still defend this pair. I mean Harry going on about anti vaxxers being brainwashed by the media when the mainstream media are all actually pro vax. He makes a tit of himself every time he opens his mouth.