Nursery being totally unsupportive of toilet training - AIBU

[SparrowMaiden]

Sorry in advance for long post.

My dd is 2y, 2m. We did three-day intensive toilet training with her the weekend before last and it went incredibly well. She is still in nappies at night, but during the day as she proudly says "no more nappies". Last week she was back at nursery and it didn't go well. She was having 4-5 accidents a day, yet at home, in the loo, every time. I was told this was normal, and it would get better. Over the bank holiday, she had one accident, in the whole three days. During this time we went to a playback play park for an hour, we went on two 1.5hour car journeys and she visited both sets of grandparents, so was using other people's loos. And still, only that one accident on Saturday and none at all on Sun and Mon. Then today she was back at nursery. She was incredibly distressed in the car on the way and did not want to go at all. This evening when I went to collect her, I was told she had one accident today - a poo. Better, I thought, although still not ideal. Then the nursery owner came out to have a little chat with me. Started telling me how anxious she seemed about potty training (at home, she is not, she is super proud of herself) and how they didn't understand why we had started training her when she clearly isn't ready. They said they had been putting nappies on her for meals and naps (even when I had expressly said not to) and that if it carried on like this they would tell me to send her back in in nappies. I was absolutely furious and felt like I was being accused of not knowing my daughter or her needs (that was definitely the tone). Honestly I feel like taking her out of nursery. Whatever they are doing or not doing is clearly upsetting her and she is so brilliant at home, I know it is not her that is the problem!!! AIBU to be angry???

'A three-day intensive course'? Sounds like some management training activity... What on earth is the world coming too; parents can't let potty training develop over time and naturally? No wonder children get anxious and regress

It’s just unfortunate wording. OP tried over a long weekend and it worked. Does it really develop over time? I tried with DS - abject failure! Put him back in nappies for a month, tried again - success! Total non-event!

As many posters have explained, things can be very different in nursery. I agree with others to compromise and use pull ups in nursery and call them ‘nursery pants’.

@Kanaloa

You’ve met a 9 month old who can say ‘I need a poo’ walk to the toilet, pull their pants down, sit on the toilet and have a poo, then wipe themselves with minimal supervision?

That’s what I consider fully toilet trained. If they are just signing toilet or gurgling then being undressed and lifted over a potty I would consider this elimination communication, which while fantastic, isn’t toilet trained to me.

That might be what you consider toilet trained, but its obviously not the prevailing opinion. For the majority of people, fully toilet trained means able to tell you they need the toilet, hold it until they get there and then go in the toilet. So they don't need to wear nappies. Why does it matter if they call it "toilet trained" or "elimination Communication", its just semantics.

You can't really say "I have never met a child under 4 who is toilet trained based on my arbitrary and made up definition of such"

@Kanaloa I agree with you. Toilet trained is when they can use the potty or toilet pretty much independently. They can also 'go on command' such as for a going out wee.

FWIW we started training my eldest at almost 3. He was reliably dry within a week or so. He wasn't trained though until nearer 4. That's when he could go by himself.

My youngest Streeter training a month ago at 2.5. She's now fully trained and taking herself to the toilet when needed. Some kids are quicker than others.

Could you maybe compromise with the nursery that you will send DD to nursery in a pull up but with her knickers in inside it it? That way your DD recognises the feeling of wetness, still has big girl knickers on and still able to use the toilet if she remembers - that way it minimises cleaning, but still keeps the vein of toilet training?

You are 100% right. All children without special needs are ready at this age, but some parents want to wait and it is their right. However nursery should listen to you. Start with asking them to provide their potty training policy. If they don't have one tell them in writing how do you want your child to be potty trained. Are they a small independent nursery or a part of the chain? If they are a chain then I would complain to the nursery director followed by their head office. If it is a small one and they don't cooperate I would move the child to another nursery.

Poor wee girl. It sounds like she will have a tough childhood ahead of her.

I had been telling them for months that we were going to start training and no one had ever said anything about what their process was or had suggested we talk about it.

This stands out to me from your first response. If you'd been telling them for months you weren't waiting for her to be ready, you were waiting for it to fit into your schedule, which suggests that she does well when you're managing her. This also makes sense with her doing really well the first day then not so well on subsequent days, as she wasn't being managed.

So she can tell you she needs the toilet but will she take herself off to the toilet?
The only time my DD has accidents at nursery are when she's distracted or when she doesn't quite make it through the toilet door on time.

If she's waiting to get someone's attention it might be that causing the issues.

@HungryHippo11

I didn’t say I’d never met a child under 4 who was potty trained. I was saying I seriously doubt anyone has ever met a 9 month old who could be considered ‘fully potty trained.’ And it matters if people are calling it potty trained or elimination communication because if you are saying a 9 month old baby is fully potty trained then it’s pretty clear that in fact you have very different ideas on what potty training is to me.

I think it is more common nowadays for children to be trained later where as when I was a child my mother insists we were trained at a year and 10 months.

FWIW, my older two (who were in disposables) did know when they had been and would tell me but they weren’t ready to train then. I’m not really sure when my son trained (we had allergy issues resulting in difficulties with poo so he was trained with wee a long time before poo), but some times after 3. My daughter was 2 years, 10 months. She had been ready for quite some time IMO but I decided to wait until she wanted to. Turns out she seemed like she would never want to so I pushed it with her and she got it in two days at that point.

I posted too early there! What I wanted to say is I think I would pop her in pull ups or nappies stuff nursery and try again in a month or two. Maybe it’s just anxiety about doing it there. If she is reliably getting it at home then I see no point in going back to Nappies there but would at nursery.

Thank you, @Twizbe

I do get the idea of having time with each child individually. I don't think mine really had that, other than DC1 before the others were born.

I also know that some people don't like messy play. I loved it - it was one of the highlights of my children being toddlers. One learnt to read via messy play and potato print letters all over everything. I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea, though.

I suppose I can't begin to imagine how anyone with a toddler could want to miss a single minute of them being a toddler (including all the annoying bits, because they're actually not that bad when you have time to ride it out). However, I know this is not a popular view on MN. I also know it's not a popular view to say that teenagers aren't that interesting. Perhaps everyone just has a phase of their children's lives which chimes in better with them.

You sound really hung up about this and there is absolutely no need for it. She’ll be dry in a few months anyway. This isn’t a competition - just stick her in a pull up for a while. You will all be a lot happier.

2 is typical for many girls but nurseries find it easier if all the kids are potty training together at the same time. The nappy change routine gets changed for one of regular toilet trips etc, there's no denying some nurseries basically can't be bothered it a child is doing it a few months ahead of what others do, and these days many parents (especially of boys) wait till more like 2.5.

Yanbu OP. I would ask them how they can facilitate your DDs needs, she is easily old enough at over 2.

I would class a child as potty trained who can say when they need to go, and hold until they reach a toilet or potty.

I wouldn't require them to be able to completely independently manage their clothing & wiping. If you waited for that some boys would be about 4 lol.

Oh and don't use pull ups. There is tons of evidence they delay toilet training. The child gets all the fun and grown up feeling of pants from what is still a nappy that they can pee in whenever they want. What's the point?! Toilet training is about recognising that you need to go, and waiting for a toilet to do it, not practising pulling pants up and down but peeing in them all day between times.

DS wasn't really potty trained till about age 2 and 8 months. Believe me it started to stress me out because he was due to start school a few weeks after he turned 3! (Summer baby). But he nailed it about 8 weeks before school, I sighed a massive sigh of relief.

He was in full time nursery, I worked with the nursery to be honest. We skipped pull ups as nursery worker said "not great for boys tends to delay them" . DS at about 2years 5months was put in to those Terry cloth pants and went to nursery with about 8 pairs plus trousers and socks. 😂

He seemed great at home aged 2 and a half but didn't get it in nursery for another 3ish months. And this was only down to the distractions of nursery, always busy, always interested in everything and anything else!! But his key worker really helped and we got there in the end!

Speak to the nursery OP and ask what they recommend/how to work with them.