Nursery being totally unsupportive of toilet training - AIBU

[SparrowMaiden]

Sorry in advance for long post.

My dd is 2y, 2m. We did three-day intensive toilet training with her the weekend before last and it went incredibly well. She is still in nappies at night, but during the day as she proudly says "no more nappies". Last week she was back at nursery and it didn't go well. She was having 4-5 accidents a day, yet at home, in the loo, every time. I was told this was normal, and it would get better. Over the bank holiday, she had one accident, in the whole three days. During this time we went to a playback play park for an hour, we went on two 1.5hour car journeys and she visited both sets of grandparents, so was using other people's loos. And still, only that one accident on Saturday and none at all on Sun and Mon. Then today she was back at nursery. She was incredibly distressed in the car on the way and did not want to go at all. This evening when I went to collect her, I was told she had one accident today - a poo. Better, I thought, although still not ideal. Then the nursery owner came out to have a little chat with me. Started telling me how anxious she seemed about potty training (at home, she is not, she is super proud of herself) and how they didn't understand why we had started training her when she clearly isn't ready. They said they had been putting nappies on her for meals and naps (even when I had expressly said not to) and that if it carried on like this they would tell me to send her back in in nappies. I was absolutely furious and felt like I was being accused of not knowing my daughter or her needs (that was definitely the tone). Honestly I feel like taking her out of nursery. Whatever they are doing or not doing is clearly upsetting her and she is so brilliant at home, I know it is not her that is the problem!!! AIBU to be angry???

Not saying your dd isn’t trained op, just my experience!

@KikoLemons

So anyone who disagrees is "not supportive". So all those people with a lot of experience who took time to explain why this might be happening have been dismissed as "not supportive".

And of course your child is so very advanced. Oh well... carry on as you are and blame everyone else for your distressed child.

I work in a nursery and this isn’t about being advanced (or not). Lots of babies and children are fully potty trained between 9 mths and 2 years. The nursery should be supporting the parents and communicating clearly about what they are and aren’t doing; not using a one size fits all policy.

Lots of babies and children are fully potty trained between 9 mths and 2 years.

9 months, how an earth can a 9 month old be fully toilet trained?

The reason people do end up waiting is because the ‘cracking’ usually happens very rapidly when they are a little older and is just less stressful for the child and everyone else. I have trained 2 DC now, my first one I felt pressure to start at 2.5 and it took months and was stressful for her.

I then trained my 2nd child at 2 year 8 month old and was dry day and night in 3 days flat. We had of course talked about it and sat on potties and toilets but it was a relaxed combination of no nappy at home and pull ups at nursery. No stickers were needed or rewards for no wee. No constant asking and reminding and changes of clothes

As you have been planning it for months and telling nursery about it, this is more your agenda than your child’s perhaps? and the nursery have picked up on this. It’s likely she’s ready to start potty training but it’s a long journey that may take a while. And that’s normal

Lots of babies and children are fully potty trained between 9 mths and 2 years.

What do you consider fully potty trained that ‘lots’ of children between 9 months and 2 years are? I’ve never met a child younger than 2 that I’d consider fully potty trained.

@Kanaloa

Although it is my experience that very few children are really, really ‘trained’ at a very young age. Most parents I know who had children ‘train’ at an early age (such as posters on here claiming their child was trained at 1 year 10 months) actually aren’t trained at all. The parents just dangle them over the toilet every twenty minutes. For me, I only considered my kids trained when they could say ‘I need a wee/poo’ wait an appropriate time to access the toilet, pull their pants and undies down and sit on the toilet to go. If I had to ask every ten minutes and do everything for them I wouldn’t consider them trained.

I come from an Indian and Romany background and in both sides of the family most babies are fully trained by 12-18 months to the point where they tell you in words or gestures that they need the toilet. I only realised that wasn’t the norm in the UK when I went into childcare. However, having worked at nurseries abroad, I do think only the UK and possibly the USA waits so long to potty train. In most Euro, Middle Eastern and Asian countries kids are fully confident (and cleaning themselves properly) by 3.

My two were trained at 2.5(DS) and 1.5(DD) but only in the house and because the potty was readily available and easy for them to get to.

Out for a drive? In a shopping centre? No chance. They could tell me that they needed to go but they couldn't hold on until we go them to a toilet - that didn't happen until they nearer 3.

Maybe nursery is like that? Can she get the attention of someone early enough that the urge doesn't become too pressing?

@Kanaloa

Not saying your dd isn’t trained op, just my experience!

But not mine. Honestly, what parent has the patience to ask their child multiple times an hour, for months presumably, if they need the loo? I've got stuff to do! My 2 year old can go several hours between loo visits, easily longer than I can. But properly potty trained 2 year olds seem to be a myth to some people.

My 7 year old still has accidents at school, she potty trained the easter before she started school, turned 4 in the July then started school in September. Nursery helped but she was still unreliable there for a long while, yet at home she will go weeks without an accident even when with other people/shopping etc. In her first half term at school (9 weeks long) she had 12 toilet accidents, she wasn't the only one. Her friend potty trained at 2 and a half and had lots of accidents at school.

I think they're two very different enviornments, not just stimulating and distracting but also require more "brain power".

@Whinge

Lots of babies and children are fully potty trained between 9 mths and 2 years.

9 months, how an earth can a 9 month old be fully toilet trained?

I have met 9 mo who can speak. If a child can speak and say they want to poo before they do a poo then it can take a week or two max to potty train them. At work this is much more common in South Asian and some African backgrounds where parents work really hard to get it done so they don’t have to worry about disposing nappies during visits to their home countries as that can often be really difficult and involve long drives to rubbish tips as local binmen won’t take them.

The stress is the issue not the age. If potty-training is stressing the child out, time to take a rain-check.

I do want to ask, in cultures where babies are potty trained, are they away from their parents/carers in a nursery all day or are they at home surrounded by family members?

You’ve met a 9 month old who can say ‘I need a poo’ walk to the toilet, pull their pants down, sit on the toilet and have a poo, then wipe themselves with minimal supervision?

That’s what I consider fully toilet trained. If they are just signing toilet or gurgling then being undressed and lifted over a potty I would consider this elimination communication, which while fantastic, isn’t toilet trained to me.

@Ozanj thank you.

I wasn't suggesting that everyone who has a different opinion is unsupportive. I meant that some people are pretty unkind in the way they express those different opinions. Anyway, thank you, all input is appreciated regardless, nothing like mums tearing eachother down for sport eh!

The only reason I mentioned her speech being advanced is that many people had asked if she is asking to go, rather than just being told/asked, which she is. But perhaps at nursery something they are doing/not doing is stopping her asking. On her first day last week (so the first day after the intensive few days) she also only had one accident, and then it got worse as the week went on which made me wonder if they were just more attentive on that first day but who knows.

We have got some reusable training pants but to be honest i can't imagine the nursery is going to be up for those as they won't hold a full wee. I think maybe the pull ups idea is best and we will just have to see how it goes. Thanks again for help.

Anyway,

Perhaps she doesn't feel confident asking staff, or in front of the other children yet? Pull ups are good as they feel damper than nappies if she does have an accident, which helps keep them from reverting back to nappies.

I have met 9 mo who can speak. If a child can speak and say they want to poo before they do a poo then it can take a week or two max to potty train them.

A 9 month old speaking is very unusual. But I think we're coming at toilet training from very different angles. Being able to say they need a poo / wee is only one part of toilet training. For me a child is toilet trained when they can recognise the need to go and independently take themselves to the toilet. A 9 month old may be able to indicate or show signs that they need to go, but that doesn't make them toilet trained.

@Mousecapade

I do want to ask, in cultures where babies are potty trained, are they away from their parents/carers in a nursery all day or are they at home surrounded by family members?

Yes they are in nurseries, and many nurseries in India and China that take kids who are 12m+ do not accept children in nappies in my experience. But even in the UK people from those backgrounds tend to train a bit earlier due to sociocultural / practical reasons.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that nursery are being unreasonable here. Have you asked what the set up there is. Can she even access a loo. Around me, most bigger daycare nurseries toilet train the children in batches, at the convenience of the key worker. It's nothing to do with a child being ready, and all of a key worker's children do it at the same time. And many don't have toilets until the pre-school rooms anyway, so that's why they discourage toilet training before 3.

As for being young, it depends on the circles you parent in. My DC all trained before 2, including my DS with autism. It was the norm for my childcare set up, including the Montessori they went to at 2. It only accepted toilet trained children and it was full including several other children with SEN, so clearly 2 is not too young for all children to toilet in a nursery setting.

I would be really upset if this were me and probably start looking for a new nursery. We are potty training atm and our nursery have been really supportive. One of my friends is also potty training her son and was having 5 or 6 accidents a day at nursery. It turned out that while he was happy to ask at home, this wasn’t happening at nursery so they started regularly taking him to the toilet just to see if he needed it and worked through it with him. He’s fine there now and she only needs to send him with one change of clothes just in case

I also agree that toilet trained to me meant them taking themselves to the toilet, pulling down clothing, wiping at least wee by themselves and even washing their hands and putting clothing back on.

Me having to do that with them every single time is one thing but nursery having to do it all every time is probably too much a child who is aware of the sensation is the start of potty training, not the completion of if

Trained DS at just under 2.5 but we did one week intense in the house, no pants, with a potty and then week 2 we went out but carried a potty everywhere with us. I was confident by the end of the first week that he was sorted and only ever had a few accidents which was usually when we were stuck in traffic. DH and I tag teamed so I did one week and he did the next (both work full time) so week 3 he was in nursery and only very, very rarely had accidents.

I'm wondering if the fact you did 3 days just hadn't fully cemented it in her mind or she just forgets when distracted and away from her parents?

I used the Oh Crap book which was really useful, but I don't know what you to if you've already started?

OP, does your DD have to be at nursery? Someone upthread said that 2y 2m was young to be potty trained; I would disagree with this wholeheartedly. However, I would say that this was very young to be at nursery, and if she doesn't have to be there, I wouldn't send her. (If you need her to be there, that's a different matter, and you would in that case need to work with the nursery. Remember, though, that you know your child, and they don't - and you might have to find a different nursery which is more inclined to treat your daughter as if she were their own).

Buy her cloth pull ups

I think nursery could be more supportive but I also don't think a intensive weekend of training isn't enough to really establish using the toilet, so the change in environment at nursery would likely confuse her.

Just reading your posts, you seem to be suggesting that the nursery is at fault for your DD’s accidents. That maybe they’re doing or not doing something such that your DD is regressing from otherwise being fully toilet trained.

You have this upside down. The very fact that your DD is having accidents at nursery, a familiar setting, means she isn’t toilet trained. That she manages at home and elsewhere is great - but not the whole picture. Until she has no accidents, anywhere, she’s not toilet trained.

Once you have that established in your mind, you’ll make your DD’s life easier. She won’t feel so anxious, and accidents won’t become a minefield.

Toilet training can take some children a long time. 2y 2mo is a little (but not much) on the early side. Be prepared for it to take weeks or months before she’s fully done. Pooing in knickers suggests she has some way to go.

Your super-advanced daughter is, I’m sure, a delightful and totally normal child. She will get there. Just don’t put pressure on her, and don’t spoil your relationship with the adults she spends so much time with at nursery. Slow down - it’s a process. That she manages fine in most places is a great first step.