Nursery being totally unsupportive of toilet training - AIBU

[SparrowMaiden]

Sorry in advance for long post.

My dd is 2y, 2m. We did three-day intensive toilet training with her the weekend before last and it went incredibly well. She is still in nappies at night, but during the day as she proudly says "no more nappies". Last week she was back at nursery and it didn't go well. She was having 4-5 accidents a day, yet at home, in the loo, every time. I was told this was normal, and it would get better. Over the bank holiday, she had one accident, in the whole three days. During this time we went to a playback play park for an hour, we went on two 1.5hour car journeys and she visited both sets of grandparents, so was using other people's loos. And still, only that one accident on Saturday and none at all on Sun and Mon. Then today she was back at nursery. She was incredibly distressed in the car on the way and did not want to go at all. This evening when I went to collect her, I was told she had one accident today - a poo. Better, I thought, although still not ideal. Then the nursery owner came out to have a little chat with me. Started telling me how anxious she seemed about potty training (at home, she is not, she is super proud of herself) and how they didn't understand why we had started training her when she clearly isn't ready. They said they had been putting nappies on her for meals and naps (even when I had expressly said not to) and that if it carried on like this they would tell me to send her back in in nappies. I was absolutely furious and felt like I was being accused of not knowing my daughter or her needs (that was definitely the tone). Honestly I feel like taking her out of nursery. Whatever they are doing or not doing is clearly upsetting her and she is so brilliant at home, I know it is not her that is the problem!!! AIBU to be angry???

Both mine trained early (21&23 months) and both nursery DC1 and childminder DC2 were happy to ask regularly if they needed the toilet, take them if they needed help and praise them. I thought that was normal tbh.

They took a couple of weeks to get the confidence to ask to go at childcare, at home they were more comfortable in their surroundings, less distracted and access to the toilet was not behind a baby gate like at nursery/CM.

Both of mine trained easily (with no more accidents than friends DC who trained later). Mumsnet doesn’t seem to be a fan of training before 3 though.

Will be interested to hear if the OP is constantly reminding her child to go at home as that seems to be the assumption of many pps given her age. Again, not my experience of just turned 2 year olds at all, all of whom were supported in potty training by their various different nurseries and had no issues. Sometimes MN is like a different world! They were mostly all in cloth nappies previously though, which might have made them more aware of when they were weeing.

Agree with the previous question
Does she tell you at home she needs or do you just take her regularly?
Did you speak to nursery about her readiness prior to starting the training at home? I’ve always found nursery to be very supportive with this stuff

It’s not fair to expect the nursery to deal with so many accidents. Every time she has an accident (for whatever reason) staff will have to take her to the bathroom, fully change her clothes, clean her up, clean any urine/faeces off communal surfaces like floors, rugs, cushions, toys, chairs (and keep other children from the contaminated area in the process). They have other children to think about.

You’ve decided she’s ready but it sounds like she’s only ready when she’s with you, not at nursery. Sending her to nursery anxious about toilet training will backfire. Potty training is a long process not something that can be achieved in an intensive few days training age 2. She may need to regress back to being in pull-ups at nursery until she’s confident without them in both environments.

Mine went back and forth between pull ups and no pull ups before they were fully trained, I let the nursery staff guide me. If they started having regular accidents at nursery it was back to pull ups for a bit, both to save the staff having to clean and change them multiple times, and to save their own dignity. She’s probably embarrassed having accidents in front of her friends.

Thanks for all the replies, probably should have remembered that not everyone on MN is friendly/supportive.

Her speech is incredibly advanced and yes, she does tell me when she needs a wee or a poo. In fact she has even done so whilst in the middle of a meal, so can obviously recognise the signs whilst busy/distracted.

She used the toilets at both grandparents houses over the weekend, fine. She doesn't go to their houses a lot so they were pretty alien settings for her but she did very well.

I've chatted to some people with experience and someone else has suggested the pull ups thing, and to call them "nursery pants". I don't love the idea - she was in cloth nappies previously and part of the reason I thought/knew she was ready to train was that she was telling me when she had been to the loo and could feel when her nappy was wet etc, which I think is more difficult in disposables, but I also appreciate what everyone is saying about trying to work with the nursery a bit. I just wish it had been handled better. I had been telling them for months that we were going to start training and no one had ever said anything about what their process was or had suggested we talk about it.

Think of it as two different phases of training
Home and nursery.
She's cracked home but nursery will take longer..

She obviously isnt ready if she can't manage at nursery.

Definitely think children react differently in a nursery setting to home. My DD is using the potty at home with a lot of success. She wears pull ups for nursery but they say she shows no interest in the potty at all. Another example is her talking, at home she never stops chatting and is stringing full sentences together, at nursery she barely talks! She's very distracted by other children and I can observe this myself when we are out and about and she's so busy watching others she goes completely deaf 🙄

I think she is a perfect age to train. People start late now whereas it used to start at 18 months-2years when I worked in nurseries and they managed perfectly well.

My little girl was same age when I trained her. She was actually fine at nursery though. Although she was still in the age 1-2 room as wasn't due to go to bigger room until after school holidays. She was the only child that was using the toilet everyone else was in nappies. Hadn't really thought about it until now but maybe that's why it was more successful and she only went 1 day a week.

I'd be really annoyed, they shouldn't be putting her in nappies against your wishes. That will confuse her. Sounds like she's doing really well too so there must be something going on at nursery. Either they can't take her quick enough or she just doesn't feel comfortable telling them. Maybe they can't be bothered. How many days is she in?

My daughter trained herself when she was 1 year and 10 months, I really wasn’t expecting it! She was totally dry at home extremely quickly with only some support from me when I realised she didn’t want to wear nappies anymore (she was taking her nappy off and sitting on the potty I had in the bathroom). Nursery was a different story, lots of accidents and they made me feel like it was too early and a few times she came out of nursery wearing a nappy. I spoke to the manager in the end and said my daughter is completely dry at home, day and night, but she has multiple accidents at nursery and it’s making her upset and she doesn’t want to go to nursery anymore. After that conversation they made more of an effort and remarkably she stopped having accidents 🤔 I guess if they weren’t supportive and it continued I would have had to think about moving nurseries.

@SparrowMaiden

Thanks for all the replies, probably should have remembered that not everyone on MN is friendly/supportive.

Her speech is incredibly advanced and yes, she does tell me when she needs a wee or a poo. In fact she has even done so whilst in the middle of a meal, so can obviously recognise the signs whilst busy/distracted.

She used the toilets at both grandparents houses over the weekend, fine. She doesn't go to their houses a lot so they were pretty alien settings for her but she did very well.

I've chatted to some people with experience and someone else has suggested the pull ups thing, and to call them "nursery pants". I don't love the idea - she was in cloth nappies previously and part of the reason I thought/knew she was ready to train was that she was telling me when she had been to the loo and could feel when her nappy was wet etc, which I think is more difficult in disposables, but I also appreciate what everyone is saying about trying to work with the nursery a bit. I just wish it had been handled better. I had been telling them for months that we were going to start training and no one had ever said anything about what their process was or had suggested we talk about it.

OP have you thought about training pants? These worked brilliantly for my dd when she was using the potty/toilet at home but having lots of accidents at nursery. I liked the Close Parent ones, also Bright Bots (she's 8 now so probably lots of other options around too). They still have some absorbency but much better at letting them feel they are wet than pull-ups. These could be her 'nursery pants'! I agree with others though - it is really common for dc to be fully potty trained at home but not at nursery - I work in early years and it happens a lot. The nursery environment is very different to home / grandparent's house, and there could be a whole host of reasons why she is just not ready to use the toilet there. I'd try the training pants, but if she just isn't ready (and the whole thing is making her worried/anxious/stressed) then go back to nappies for nursery days.

@Northernlurker

I think you've screwed thus up tbh. She is young to be reliably trained and you have clearly not communicated enough with the nursery. I found our nursery very supportive with toilet training fwiw. Intensive training is bollocks btw, they are either ready and get it and don't need endless pro,lying and timing or they aren't.

Says what evidence? Plenty of children are potty trained at 2!

I get why you're frustrated. But you say you think she was ready because she knew and could tell you her nappy was wet - ok, that could mean she's ready, but could just be her? My DD is a finicky little thing and since she was absolutely tiny she'd roar with tears if her nappy was a teeny bit wet or would drag herself piteously over to us to draw attention to it. I'm talking way before she was verbal or even properly crawling. It had nothing to do with readiness for potty training whatsoever.

I did try training her when she was just turned 2 because everyone told me this was a sign she was ready. And it was sort of ok at home, like with you - she really liked the idea (find me a toddler who doesn't want to get rid of their nappy, right?! ). But it was a non-starter.

I don't think it did any harm that she went back into nappies again after a false start, and when she did properly potty train (she was closer to three than four) it was really quick and easy.

So, I do see why you're frustrated but I wouldn't worry too much that the chain of events will have caused major issues.

• sorry, that should say, closer to two than three!

(She's four now.)

@Forserious

YABU. Our children react differently in different settings. What is all very well and good at home, can be a whole different scenario at nursery/school/work situations and that goes for adults too.

It's impossible to be rightfully angry at the nursery. They've expressed their concerns to you and you're dismissing them. Listen to them and remove this unnecessary extra pressure from both your sides.

Communicate with your child. Are the toilets scary at nursery. Is the flush different. Do they close the doors. Is there a smell in there. Is she having too much fun to think about going to the toilet, because accidents are OK you just want to understand what the difference is. Is she scared of missing out when she does go to the loo. Are her friends toilet training as well or is she being "treated differently" I.e. the odd one out. All these things can have an effect.

Communicate with the nursery. You feel she is ready at home so let's figure out the differences. At home she does/doesn't need encouragement. She does/doesn't have difficulty in removing her bottom half on order to go the loo etc.

Don't be angry. These things take a long time. Not 2 or 3 days. I know - my eldest took 1-2 weeks whereas my youngest is 7 (although ASD and LD) and we're still trying after around 4 years!

Don't change her setting, work with the nursery and you will both succeed I'm sure. Good luck

Great post

A nursery setting is so different to at home or even at Grandparents.

She obviously isn't ready at nursery quite yet, try her with some pull ups and see how it goes.

Do they have hand dryers at the nursery? My DD was potty trained by 2 and a half at home but refused to go into public toilets if they had a scary "too noisyyyyyy" hand dryer in it.

I started training at 14 mths because DS was telling me 5s before a poo that he wanted one and within a week he progressed to asking for the potty for all his poos at home. But it still took him 4 mths to do the same at nursery. It’s a different environment, different potties, different people. It will take her a while to feel 100% comfortable.

She’s done great one accident today compared to 4 or 5 last week is great, try and get them to give her a chance.

So anyone who disagrees is "not supportive". So all those people with a lot of experience who took time to explain why this might be happening have been dismissed as "not supportive".

And of course your child is so very advanced. Oh well... carry on as you are and blame everyone else for your distressed child.

Totally with you on this one OP. Both of mine were potty trained around 2 years old. Lots of strange resistance from other family members saying “they’re too young” which turned out to be utterly rubbish as both were clear communicators by that age and were fine. Nursery was totally on board and supportive and just mimicked what we did at home and it was all fine, a few more accidents as they’re distracted more at nursery. To correct the accidents at nursery they implemented reward charts and stickers (which we didn’t need at home), but they did that off their own backs. I would be fuming in your situation as they clearly aren’t supporting you and your DC.

I’m not sure here. She does sound a bit young but of course you say she is managing well at home.

The thing is, while she tells you at home or grandparents - it’s quite different at nursery. When I’ve worked at nurseries the child would often have to come and find a grownup and say I need a wee, then we would often expect/encourage them to be as independent as possible with removing clothes and getting on the toilet. At home, she has all her grownups just listening to/looking at her, whereas at nursery she may have to wait while an adult tends to another child or situation. It might be that, the waiting, or having to tell someone, that is causing the accidents.

However, if she only had one accident most recently, it does sound like she is making progress, just catching up at nursery to how she is at home.

@Kanaloa

I’m not sure here. She does sound a bit young but of course you say she is managing well at home.

The thing is, while she tells you at home or grandparents - it’s quite different at nursery. When I’ve worked at nurseries the child would often have to come and find a grownup and say I need a wee, then we would often expect/encourage them to be as independent as possible with removing clothes and getting on the toilet. At home, she has all her grownups just listening to/looking at her, whereas at nursery she may have to wait while an adult tends to another child or situation. It might be that, the waiting, or having to tell someone, that is causing the accidents.

However, if she only had one accident most recently, it does sound like she is making progress, just catching up at nursery to how she is at home.

This is so true.

Mine all trained around 2 but they were at home so it was easier

Although it is my experience that very few children are really, really ‘trained’ at a very young age. Most parents I know who had children ‘train’ at an early age (such as posters on here claiming their child was trained at 1 year 10 months) actually aren’t trained at all. The parents just dangle them over the toilet every twenty minutes. For me, I only considered my kids trained when they could say ‘I need a wee/poo’ wait an appropriate time to access the toilet, pull their pants and undies down and sit on the toilet to go. If I had to ask every ten minutes and do everything for them I wouldn’t consider them trained.