Nursery being totally unsupportive of toilet training - AIBU

[SparrowMaiden]

Sorry in advance for long post.

My dd is 2y, 2m. We did three-day intensive toilet training with her the weekend before last and it went incredibly well. She is still in nappies at night, but during the day as she proudly says "no more nappies". Last week she was back at nursery and it didn't go well. She was having 4-5 accidents a day, yet at home, in the loo, every time. I was told this was normal, and it would get better. Over the bank holiday, she had one accident, in the whole three days. During this time we went to a playback play park for an hour, we went on two 1.5hour car journeys and she visited both sets of grandparents, so was using other people's loos. And still, only that one accident on Saturday and none at all on Sun and Mon. Then today she was back at nursery. She was incredibly distressed in the car on the way and did not want to go at all. This evening when I went to collect her, I was told she had one accident today - a poo. Better, I thought, although still not ideal. Then the nursery owner came out to have a little chat with me. Started telling me how anxious she seemed about potty training (at home, she is not, she is super proud of herself) and how they didn't understand why we had started training her when she clearly isn't ready. They said they had been putting nappies on her for meals and naps (even when I had expressly said not to) and that if it carried on like this they would tell me to send her back in in nappies. I was absolutely furious and felt like I was being accused of not knowing my daughter or her needs (that was definitely the tone). Honestly I feel like taking her out of nursery. Whatever they are doing or not doing is clearly upsetting her and she is so brilliant at home, I know it is not her that is the problem!!! AIBU to be angry???

Does the nursery toilet have hand driers? my dd would not use any toilets that had hand driers even though she was potty trained. She's 14 now and still won't use public loos that have driers.

My DD trained over a long weekend. When I took the bag of spares into nursery the following week they were very sceptical. She had 1 accident in nursery, she needed to go but was outside in waterproof dungarees - which took longer to remove than she had, all part of the learning curve! They had the very good grace to apologise for their scepticism.

Has anyone talked her through the routine at nursery? If she’s in a room for 2 year olds they will be experts in PT! Maybe worth another conversation about the differences in success between home and nursery.

I thought I was doing really well with my eldest - a few years ago now - and then he couldn't seem to get the hang of it at nursery. Someone gently pointed out to me that I was the one who was trained, not him, as I was taking him regularly and catching what he did rather than leaving it totally up to him. It took quite a bit of me doing totally nothing to remind, no help with clothes whatsoever, no pausing an activity he was engrossed in and sure enough, these are the things he had to learn, not just how to let go when I told him it was time for a wee. Not saying you're necessarily in this boat but I was very indignant at the time.

@Kanaloa

Although it is my experience that very few children are really, really ‘trained’ at a very young age. Most parents I know who had children ‘train’ at an early age (such as posters on here claiming their child was trained at 1 year 10 months) actually aren’t trained at all. The parents just dangle them over the toilet every twenty minutes. For me, I only considered my kids trained when they could say ‘I need a wee/poo’ wait an appropriate time to access the toilet, pull their pants and undies down and sit on the toilet to go. If I had to ask every ten minutes and do everything for them I wouldn’t consider them trained.

You are referring to my post and you are wrong. I never dangled my daughter over a toilet or asked every 10 mins if she needed a wee. She was able to take herself off to the potty on her own when she needed to go. 3 days after she did her first wee on a potty we went out for the day and she had no accidents and she told me when she wanted a wee, I didn’t ask her. Some children are ready sooner than others and that’s just the way it is.

However, I would say that this was very young to be at nursery, and if she doesn't have to be there, I wouldn't send her.

Really? I know dozens of small children and of those only 1 didn't attend nursery at this age. Interesting how much depends on your social circle.

Around me, most bigger daycare nurseries toilet train the children in batches, at the convenience of the key worker. It's nothing to do with a child being ready, and all of a key worker's children do it at the same time. And many don't have toilets until the pre-school rooms anyway, so that's why they discourage toilet training before 3.

What a very bizarre accusation. In my working life I have been in dozens and dozens of Nurseries - well over 100 - and have never, ever come across anything like this.

OP I was thinking until you said in your next post that you had been telling them for some time you were going to start toilet training, that things are always easier with good communication. It sounds like this is something lacking at your dc's Nursery. Overwhelmingly Nurseries are willing to support toilet training, once children reach two.
Can't believe anyone thinks this is too young.

It’s too young to assume that the child is fully toilet trained after a weekend though isn’t it?

Not read the whole thread but had a few issues with nursery not supporting my ds with training. They implied i was making it up and pushing him too early. They refused to take him in pants until he'd asked to go for a wee :-|. This went on for about 6 weeks.......

He'd started using the potty at home from 18months, no prompting or asking him in fact he'd say no if you asked hence the problem with nursery. I just dropped him off in pants in the end. He had a handful of accidents the first week then sent him with his own potty week 2- no problem. I was intending to give him the choice of pants or reusables on nursery days if the accidents continued there- maybe you could try that to take the pressure off for a bit if she is nervous. Could be she doesn't like leaving the room to go/ too cold in the loos/ got a bad reaction after an accident.

I think reusable pants are worth a try- a good compromise. If it stresses her or you can't find a solution i would do nappies at nursery + pants at home- worked well for my friend until her dd was more confident.

I have two DS - one potty trained at 2yo and my second child was 5 despite him also showing signs around 3. Second child something must’ve happened at nursery - he was petrified / refused to go. I could write a book on toilet training now I tried it all! It was so hard and caused so much stress and anxiety. Nursery was obstructive and dragged their feet and even asked me if I had considered my son having additional needs! We think something scared him at nursery or they got cross and plonked him on / he fell or something causing anguish and fear. So please keep a close eye on the nursery and do not let them dictate! Good luck sending you support 💐

@WiggIyWoo

However, I would say that this was very young to be at nursery, and if she doesn't have to be there, I wouldn't send her.

Really? I know dozens of small children and of those only 1 didn't attend nursery at this age. Interesting how much depends on your social circle.

I am intrigued by the 'social circle' idea. What did you have in mind?

Even if I had wanted to send my DC to nursery at 2, I wouldn't have done. All the decent research into childcare suggests 3 to be a more suitable age - unless there's no choice. SAHMs are fortunate enough to have a choice. All of my friends when the DC were small were SAHMs, and none of them sent their children to nursery. We did go to baby and toddler groups, and NCT get-togethers, but nobody's children went to nursery. Maybe this is what you mean by 'social circle'.

She is most likely,to be so used to your system at home., and it's very different at the nursery, surroundings, and the different people etc, so I would expect a few mishaps. although they are not mishaps really, just a different set up that she is not yet used to. The nursery will just be acting accordingly, and will understand your views on this.

As you have found OP, 3 days intensive potty training is fine if she doesn't go to nursery and you are around to keenly watch her and remind her to go.

But wouldn't it have been more sensible to train her over a week or so, preferably when she didn't go into nursery. To see how she got on with fewer prompts from you. Then for her to go into nursery, when she was more confident and less likely to have accidents through being distracted by nursery life. If accidents are frequent then a few days of being in pull ups should be no big deal for her or for you.

It sounds like she is well on the way OP. Are you otherwise happy with the nursery? If you are, and you generally trust them, then go with what they are saying.

DC1's key worker had no kids of his own but had potty trained scores of toddlers so I assumed he knew more about it than we did.

I don't have any advice as mine were later trainers, but I would say it is a process. They will still have accidents on occasion for years, they might be dry at night for a bit and then not for ages. An hour and a half is not a huge amount of time to be dry for really, that's probably a normal wee interval at that age.

If you otherwise like the nursery, try what they say for a bit, cement things at home and get her really independent with changing and hand washing etc. The next stage will come.

You might be better off with a good childminder rather than nursery at this stage. They will have more time for her and she will probably feel less stressed about it. Nurseries can be mad houses.

@HonoreDeBallsack I'm a SAHP my daughter has been at nursery since 13 months old. She does 2 days a week and loves it. She's leaving this week to start preschool.

My son was in preschool full time from after lockdown he loved it too.

I have the choice, and I send them.

OP - what is your relationship like with the nursery in general? It's just that your posts do sound quite accusatory towards them, and this is usually a sign that the relationship isn't great in the first place. It is so important that nursery and home can work together well, for every aspect not just toilet training; if you feel less than positive about the nursery or staff already, your dd is likely to have picked up on this - this could definitely affect her toileting.
As pp have said, moving settings can be very disruptive in itself and might well impact on the toilet training; but if you aren't comfortable with the nursery's approach then you either need to speak to them again, or look into other options, including keeping her at home if she doesn't need to be in nursery.

She is not young to be trained. They all trained at different ages. Girls I find so much earlier and quicker.
I would not be going back to nappies or pull ups or anything like that. That would be confusing for her. Nursery needs to work with you. I know from my experience we take the children who are newly trained etc regularly to the toilet and we watch for signs. Yes it is not easy in the setting but it is our job and we work with the parents to help them. We would only speak to the parents of it was quite obviously the child was not ready. You would be surprised how some parents juts take a nappy off and expect the nursery to do all the work.
I would stick to ur guns. You know her best.

My son was 2 and 4 months when we started training him. It took a few months and now we usually don't have accidents at home but he often has numerous accidents at nursery. I think it's the different settings, they aren't as in tune with his signs, they obviously don't ask as regularly. My son will often initiate but if he's watching TV or eating etc he needs prompting as he's so engrossed. I wouldn't worry about it. Shell get better. Just keep sending extra clothes in. Maybe make a list of her 'tells' to help nursery identify when she needs to go. I personally wouldn't send her in pull ups. We only use pull ups for car journeys when our son falls asleep or soft play as I don't want to be responsible for poo incident in the ball pool

It’s too young to assume that the child is fully toilet trained after a weekend though isn’t it?

Yes, but how are they expected to move from doing so well at home, and on journeys, and at other people's (unfamiliar) homes, and out and about to being fully trained if the Nursery aren't willing to work with her ?

I will often explain on threads why Nurseries aren't wrong for doing X or Y, or why it is different when dc at at Nursery from home, but, in this case, working with the family to support toilet training is very much part of the daily work of anyone working in a Nursery, and it sounds like this Nursery aren't prepared to work with the OP on this very reasonable and normal stage of development.

I don't think it's unreasonable of you to expect nursery to support potty training at this age, and I do think it's unreasonable of them to say your DD needs to come back in nappies - it's so inconsistent and confusing for her when she is out of nappies at home.

My DD potty trained "young" and we also had issues with the nursery. Eventually we moved DD to another nursery (where she has had maybe a handful of accidents over 5 months) and I was struck (and saddened) by how much happier she seemed at the new nursery. So for us the potty training issue was the canary in the coal mine if that makes sense.

I potty trained both of mine at around 20 months so I don't think she is too young at all but you are describing a similar scenario to one we initially had with my son.
He was also doing really well at home but at the childminders he just wouldn't ask and just didn't want to use her toilet or even sit on it so for a while he was in nappies there and pants at home. Strangely enough he just randomly seemed to get it after about 2 months and has been great ever since.
It was like something just clicked in his brain as I can't identify anything that eventually made it successful.
Other posters have suggested training pants and they are good for preventing a big mess on the floor as well but if she needs to wear a nappy or pull up for a few weeks while she consolidates her new skills at home with you then it won't necessarily put her back as it's two completely different settings and caregivers so it easier for them to understand that different things happen at different places.

Why, @Twizbe ?

Genuine question, not being a GF. I can't think of anything that would have prised them from my maternal grip at 13 months. But I am one fo those unusual Mners who thinks children hit their absolute best age at 13 months to just under 3 years. I wouldn't have done without the toddlers for anything. Teenagers, however, are a different matter, and I would gladly put them in a nursery.

This thread is perfect example of there being no right answer or solution to this.

Op had planned this months before her DD was 2.2 and is frustrated that it hasn’t all fallen into place in a few days. Nursery can see the child getting really stressed out, which doesn’t sound like they are a terrible nursery who don’t care about your child. They are saying that your potty training agenda isn’t as important as your child’s welfare/stress levels. They aren’t telling you they don’t want to assist you from what you have said. She cried before she even got there. If they are otherwise a good nursery, try to establish what they are saying which isn’t ‘you are a bad parent and she’s too young’ but that perhaps you are expecting too much of your child. If they are a terrible nursery who don’t toilet the kids then look for a new nursery

@HonoreDeBallsack
There were a few reasons really.

Aside from when I worked full time after DS;

1. when DD was born (DS was just 2) those 2 days at nursery have DS some time with children his own age. He got to do activities that I couldn't do with him and the baby.
2. when DD was born it gave me 2 days a week to just focus on her. Take her to breastfeeding groups / baby classes and the like
3. nursery do messy play. I hate messy play. I don't like setting it up, I don't like clearing it up
4. after lockdown DD did 2 days at nursery and DS moved to 5 mornings at preschool. The mornings at preschool have really helped prepare him for school. He was diagnosed with selective mutism and we'd never know he had an issue if he'd not been going to a setting without us. He's made so much progress with speaking that we feel much more confident about school.
5. those 2 afternoons a week with just DS and I have been lovely. As have those 3 mornings a week with just DD. It's been great to give them both some focused individual attention.
6. I get a break on those 2 mornings a week they are both out. I can clean the house, organise appointments for me, do my volunteer work etc.

They have multiple kids and do not want to bexcleaning up wee and poo multiple times a day OP. Yabu. Mine had no accidents potty training as they were ready. She doesn't sound it yet.