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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU discharging myself from hospital

388 replies

Carrottopppp · 30/08/2021 07:43

Sorry if this is long but it's important I tell you every detail to give the full story. Saturday evening I woke from a nap to find myself really sore and swollen in my groin and part of my pubis, overnight it swelled considerably went really red and painful to walk, sit, stand etc, I called OOH gp Sunday morning who got me an urgent appointment at our urgent treatment centre within A&E. App was at 9.30am with an absolutely lovely doctor who left no stone unturned and said I had developed an abscess and it needed draining urgently due to the risk of sepsis and the fact it had literally appeared out of nowhere and had grown 4x4 inches literally overnight. He got me an appointment with emergency surgical ambulatory care for 2.15pm yesterday, I attended the nurse took one look and said "no surgeon on this ward will touch that as it is on your pubis not your groin" she sent me back to urgent care and the doctor I saw that morning took me back to his room had another look then said its definitely a groin abscess but we'll let gynae have a look anyway, he sent me up to the gynae ward, 3 different doctors took a look but it was the most senior surgeon on the ward who said it actually is groin, not his area of expertise and also due to the amount of blood vessels in the area he couldn't touch it, so I waited and he came back and said I had to go back to emergency surgical ambulatory care as its them who deal with these things. So off I went an as soon as I walked in I was met by the same nurse who told me she had spoken to a surgeon up on surgical assessment ward and that they were waiting for me and expecting me and I may be treated as a golden patient I. E doctor has a look at it then books me a time to go back the next day and have it removed so off I went up to the ward.

Now this is where I started losing my rag mentally, met by a nurse on the ward who asks another lady to show me to my bed and she said "ill be with you in a minute" yeah you guessed it, never saw her again. I was shown my bed obs done and that's it never saw anybody again, nobody knew when the doctor was coming to speak to me, nobody could tell me whether or not I could eat or drink by this point I hadn't eaten in 26 hours, Its on my notes that I'm on antibiotics yet nobody asked if I was due any (I was but mine were at home as nobody told me when all this started that I would become an inpatient), I waited hours, I had absolutely no overnight stuff with me, I got frustrated and I went to the nurses station to let them know I'm discharging myself and have someone call me to arrange to go back in when it's convenient. The nurse couldn't even find the doctors number to call and ask permission to sign off the discharge, and with that I left.

So to clarify I'd been in and out of hospital for 12 hours, I was no further forward than knowing I had an abscess, i had 4 doctors, 2 nurses and a receptionist all having a gander at my genitals, I was passed from place to place, I walked in agony the entire length of our hospital 1/2 mile 3 times, nobody could tell me what the hell was happening and all the prodding and poking aggravated the abscess to the point it doubled in size and started spreading down my leg. WIBU, maybe I was but I was frustrated, tired and I hadn't eaten in 28 hours. I'm planning on attending A&E this morning and hopefully try and get somewhere, I'm due back in work tomorrow and need it removing as my job requires me to be on my feet for 8 hours a day and don't want to be walking around in pain.

OP posts:
SoosanCarter · 30/08/2021 09:53

@Carrottopppp

With my antibiotics I can't eat an hour before or 2 hours after, when I left hospital I knew I was past due them so couldn't eat and when I got home and took them it was late at night I was counting down the 2 hours until I could eat but I fell asleep on the sofa before my 2 hours was up, I woke in the early hours went to bed, I took todays at 7am so I can't eat until 9am but if I'm going back to hospital then eating when my 2 hours is up will delay surgery further as I have to be nil by mouth for so long until I can get back to hospital and find out a rough time it will be happening it's best to just not eat
What is the name of the antibiotic? There aren’t any that you have to wait to eat three hours.
MsHedgehog · 30/08/2021 09:54

@Carrottopppp

I don't understand how I've lost my place on the surgery list when I wasn't even on it until the doctor had done their rounds and even the nurses didn't know when that would be. The hospital wasn't even busy, I went to urgent care twice and I was the only one in there, I passed A&E 3 times and again nobody in there either, all 3 wards I attended again nurses, doctors etc all stood around with next to no patients. The only time that was wasted was my own, I did everything that was asked of me in regards to going to so many different wards to figure out who should be seeing to me, I didn't eat or drink just in case, I happily agreed to letting so many different people examine a very private area even though it turned out its not their problem. I did what I was supposed to do until it got to the point where this is my health on the line yet I had no control over it, I had no idea what was going on with MY BODY, I'm supposed to just sit there wait for somebody to eventually let me know what the hell is going on, my entire life can't just come to a halt because nobody knows what the the other is doing
If they were planning to operate today, you’ve lost your place by not being there. That’s how.

I’m afraid it’s unlikely they will operate today, so you need to accept you won’t be going to work tomorrow or for a few days.

ManifestDestinee · 30/08/2021 09:56

@Carrottopppp

I do know I'll be right back where I started and I'm coming to terms with the fact that I'll most likely be kept in but I'm also right back where I started in regards to not eating, I still haven't eaten and most likely can't from now so by the time I do get my surgery I'm probably looking at a minimum of 2 days without food or drink, even if I had stayed last night I'd still be sat waiting in hospital with no food or drink, surely that's wrong
You're sounding more and more like a massive drama queen, who is trying to waste everyones time as much as possible.
Muchmorethan · 30/08/2021 09:56

Not all surgery is appropriate to be awake for. Infections can't have local anaesthetic due to the fact it's infected and won't work.

As said previously Emergency Theatre runs on a case by case basis. There are patients deemed much more urgent than you unfortunately so you have to wait. Totally understand that it's crap, but there is only enough of us Theatre Staff to go round! My Mum was cancelled 3 days on the trot when she broke her hip as more urgent cases were admitted.... and was starved all day each time...

...and the fact that you discharged yourself home shows that you weren't as urgent as those patients who were being operated on.

I really despair when patients self discharge. We only admit as a last resort.

Also I'd advise anyone going to A&E to always be prepared to be admitted and take an overnight bag with you with medication, snacks and drinks.

MsHedgehog · 30/08/2021 09:56

You’re sounding increasingly unreasonable with your expectations I’m afraid. You sound like you expect immediate 5 star service on the NHS.

drinkingwineoutofamug · 30/08/2021 09:57

@CovidCorvid

And I would take stories from elderly ladies saying they’ve been left 9 hours asking for pain meds with a pinch of salt. There is likely to be more to that story.

Maybe she asked once and the nurse forgot but the lady didn’t ask again….not great but nurses are humans. Maybe she’s had all the pain meds she’s prescribed for that day and can’t safely be given anymore. Maybe a dr is needed to come and do a prescription and hasn’t had chance to come……possible but unlikely as a hcsw can sometimes be sent with the script to the dr if the dr isnt free to come….not ideal and I guess some hospitals may have cracked down on that.

But any of these scenarios does not mean that the nurse “is unlikely to give two fucks” if you get sepsis in the night. That’s a major leap.

Agree with this. At work on Saturday, I had a visitor demanding pain relief for their mother. Elderly mother saying she hadn't had them. So I showed the prescription chart to the relative, showing that I had given not just regular pain meds , controlled drug but also prn medication. I was accused of been sat at the nurses station on a computer. Yes I was. Having to upload a Mca/dols x 2. A dietitian referral and a referral to speech and language. I still had notes for 12 patients to write, make sure I hadn't missed anything , observations , and a datix . I left 40 mins after shift ended.
Rosscameasdoody · 30/08/2021 09:57

Utterly ridiculous and very disrespectful to the staff responsible for your care. You were advised that you were at risk of sepsis and you basically discharged yourself because you were fed up waiting ???!!!

Here’s what I don’t understand. You had got as far as securing a precious bed on the surgical assessment ward after what was, by NHS timescales, a fairly short space of time considering it was the weekend, when staff are thinner on the ground. Then, because things weren’t moving fast enough for you, you decided to discharge yourself - despite the fact that your kids were being taken care of and you’re not due back in work until Tuesday. Where was the urgency ?

Your posts sound very whiny - if you were in pain, you should have spoken up and asked for a wheelchair instead of walking, if you had forgotten your antibiotics, you should have told someone - they can’t read your mind, any more than you can know what’s going on behind the scenes. And you were on a surgical assessment ward - of course you’re not going to be allowed to eat or drink until you’ve been assessed to see if surgery is needed. You complained that the nurses were sat at their station - what did you want them to do ? Nurses can’t prescribe antibiotics or any other drugs - they have to wait for a doctor to be free to write them up.

I'm discharging myself and have someone call me to arrange to go back in when it's convenient..

What ??? This is the NHS, not your own private medical facility.

I'm planning on attending A&E this morning and hopefully try and get somewhere, I'm due back in work tomorrow and need it removing as my job requires me to be on my feet for 8 hours a day and don't want to be walking around in pain..

Good luck with that then. You had a bed, you left in a strop and you’ll find that when you get back to the hospital, you’ll have to start again. And that means a wait in A&E before they even get to you. I do hope you get sorted, but this time try and get your priorities right - urgent doesn’t mean emergency and you will inevitably have to wait your turn whether you like it or not.

OnwardsAndSideways1 · 30/08/2021 09:58

This is what it's like on weekends and Bank Holidays, it's not the staff's fault, but they are completely understaffed and have very inefficient protocols that clog up, so there will be plenty of nurses, but then no relevant consultant til Tue and it all goes on like this. Not enough beds, no co-ordinated care, so basic stuff which is actually very important with people who are getting sick or mentally unwell, such as feeding you, giving you water, making sure you are not deteriorating can all be neglected. Once on the ward, I've found things much better but the pathways between A and E and all the specialities are very chaotic. No-one is really responsible for you so you just get shunted from place to place.

I would definitely go back in right now and get PALS involved as well, you need to be in hospital and expect a few days of treatment minimum. All talk of work is just irrelevant, if you got sepsis.

But everyone saying, well just suck it up- yes, but that's why we have poorer outcomes in this country for things like cancer treatment, there's too many delays, really rubbish and unhealthy treatment in hospitals (stress, noise, no-one even attending to food/drink needs in some wards, in others they are fab) and the whole thing has an entirely chaotic feel, esp A and E. As well as unhygienic and spreading covid at all times, through hardly any protective measures (again, not staff's fault, just how it is). It's an absolute shambles and I really wouldn't want to visit a hospital right now unless I was in a life-threatening condition- which you are. Get family/friends to help you, take in stuff and try to get on a ward where at least basic care will be given.

Carrottopppp · 30/08/2021 09:58

@doingnothing when I was pregnant with my son I had really bad nausea and I didn't eat or drink for 24 hours I attended urgent care as I had a pounding headache for days that wouldn't budge, I had obs and urine sample taken, blood pressure was sky high, I was severely dehydrated, a very fast heart rate and my ketones were through the roof, doctor warned if I went home I ran the risk of slipping In to a coma during the night, I still went home on the promise I'd attend my gp the next morning and go from there, attended the gp everything still the same so went up to hospital and stayed for 13 hours until blood pressure came down, I'd had fluids and food then left

OP posts:
Notavegan · 30/08/2021 09:59

Sorry but you should have stayed.
If you are in the bed you are on the system.
I had appendicitis this week and waited 36 hours for a bed in a,&e. 24 hours were in on a drip. In A&e. I was very upset at times but had to wait. There were no beds.
I eventually had my op at 1am on Friday, having arrived 9am weds. Mine was not perfect care but I was being treated.

Tal45 · 30/08/2021 10:00

This is what happens IMO when the government 'centralises' everything into huge hospitals to save money. You then have these huge hospitals where people come and see you and then you never see them again and you have no idea what's going on as there's a constant coming and going of different people who constantly disappear to 'find out what's going on' and it's totally impersonal. It's not something completely new or recent due to Brexit or covid or whatever, it's been going on for years IMO. My FIL and BIL both spent a lot of time in hospital about 4 years ago and trying to find out anything whether on the phone or at the hospital was a nightmare. Anyone you spoke to would say that they'd just come on shift and didn't know, we only found out a few weeks after it had happened that FIL had been violent to staff and BIL and we only found out because we asked if they could be put on the same ward. The person DH was talking to had no idea he hadn't been told. This is how it is and it's not going to get any better so if you can afford it get private healthcare (it's world's away from the NHS in my experience), then do or have very low expectations. I'm sorry things haven't gone well but you do need to get this sorted xxx

OnwardsAndSideways1 · 30/08/2021 10:01

Yes, the OP should have been 'sensible' and stayed, but she panicked due to lack of care and being shunted about endlessly, and also if you don't sleep, eat or drink for over 24 hours, you start to go a bit weird and lose the plot for that reason alone. She went home as that's where she felt safe. Now she needs to go back urgently, but if she'd had anything like any continuity of care, and basic needs met, she wouldn't have fled (irrationally).

MsHedgehog · 30/08/2021 10:01

Your posts sound very whiny - if you were in pain, you should have spoken up and asked for a wheelchair instead of walking, if you had forgotten your antibiotics, you should have told someone - they can’t read your mind, any more than you can know what’s going on behind the scenes. And you were on a surgical assessment ward - of course you’re not going to be allowed to eat or drink until you’ve been assessed to see if surgery is needed. You complained that the nurses were sat at their station - what did you want them to do ? Nurses can’t prescribe antibiotics or any other drugs - they have to wait for a doctor to be free to write them up

I’m afraid I agree with this. I know you’re in pain and stressed, but you seem to have a bit of a martyr complex going on. You need to accept you’re in pain and get the help you need rather than complaining about service not being going enough and making things worse for yourself.

Sirzy · 30/08/2021 10:02

Please say you are back in A and E now?

anon12345678901 · 30/08/2021 10:03

You should have stayed, you're at the bottom of the pile again and that's understandable. There will be many people there who didn't leave and require treatment. You are not the only person needing surgery, neither is the NHS your private treatment facility.
No one wants to wait around in hospitals, you go there because you need the medical care that you cannot do yourself.

ToooSensitive · 30/08/2021 10:03

OP, you just need to go back, wait to be assessed and wait for the appropriate treatment. It really is that simple.

Your children will be fine - parents become unwell and can be told and reassured as needed.

Your boss will understand - being unwell and in hospital can happen to anyone.

The longer you wait, the more unwell you could become, meaning a longer stay in hospital.

Hope you’re feeling better soon.

PineapplePanda · 30/08/2021 10:03

Are you genuinely asking for advice from MN? Because your responses indicate that you're not willing to listen to anybody.

Your health comes before work and your children. Without your health you won't be earning money and your children might not have a parent, sorry but those are the truths.

Get yourself back up to hospital. Sorry to sound harsh but you are coming across as petulant which I understand as I've been in and out of hospital many times with a chronic illness and understand the frustration. I once had to sit in A&E for 12 hours on a drip with dangerously high level of ketones waiting for a bed. But sulking and whinging is not going to get you healthy.

Either call 101 or 999 or get back in A&E.

Rosscameasdoody · 30/08/2021 10:04

And to previous posters telling the OP to have something to eat before she goes back to the hospital. Not the best advice if she’s a surgical case.

ManifestDestinee · 30/08/2021 10:05

@OnwardsAndSideways1

Yes, the OP should have been 'sensible' and stayed, but she panicked due to lack of care and being shunted about endlessly, and also if you don't sleep, eat or drink for over 24 hours, you start to go a bit weird and lose the plot for that reason alone. She went home as that's where she felt safe. Now she needs to go back urgently, but if she'd had anything like any continuity of care, and basic needs met, she wouldn't have fled (irrationally).
If that was true she would have gone home to eat and drink and sleep. Instead she is still refusing to have even a glass of water, seemingly in an attempt to make herself as ill as possible.
MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 30/08/2021 10:05

You need to stay in. You only need 4 hours of not eating for surgery and you will definitely wait that long so I’d eat before you go today.

Surgnamechange · 30/08/2021 10:06

I typed a huge reply and then it disappeared! Name changed for this as although I’m no longer a surgeon (as will become obvious from the end of this post) I haven’t lost the habit!

I’m sorry this has happened to you. I can understand how frustrating it is to be passed around from pillar to post. Different parts of the body are a bit of a grey area as to which specialist they come under. Especially with an abscess where it can be difficult to tell how deep it goes and what structures are involved. Getting multiple teams to see it means that they’re being thorough and the team best suited to removing it will be the ones looking after you minimising the risks of complications (there are a lot of nerves and vessels in the groin that you want somebody experienced to be able to work around!). It’s a bank holiday weekend though so everyone will be on minimum staffing which means getting these opinions can take a while.

I promise the doctors aren’t doing nothing. I don’t want to be self indulgent but I’ve been a surgical SHO in a district general. On a weekend I had to do the following -

Ward round of current patients plus jobs. Also responsible for covering these patients if they deteriorate (so if they become septic, develop chest pain, start bleeding etc). Also need to review the new patients from overnight with a consultant.

Clerk all new admissions - come up with a plan, order and chase investigations, prescribe medication (you’d be surprised how many people don’t know what they’re taking so this requires negotiating NHS IT to look at their GP records and hope they’ve allowed access/are up to date etc). ED are under pressure to get people through in the 4 hour time period so you can be constantly fielding calls from them. I’m also taking calls from GPs re admissions/wanting advice for patients they’ve seen. Medical specialties are also calling for advice (eg we’ve admitted somebody with a stroke but they’ve also not opened their bowels and we’re worried about an obstruction).

Prep patients for theatre - liaise with theatre bookings, anaesthetics to see if any jobs need doing pre booking (and if you’re having an operation on a weekend it’s an emergency - these patients are often quite sick so there’s a lot to be done), consenting the patient (potentially talking to their relatives if they are delirious, have dementia etc).

Go to theatre - an emergency laparotomy can take 5 hours, all this time I’m not on the wards and all my jobs (from quick, can you prescribe some paracetamol jobs to urgent patient with chest pain jobs are building up). I remember coming out of a difficult case once to 4 new patients to clerk (some of whom were probably too poorly to have been transferred out of ED to the surgical assessment bay with no doctors present), 2 urgent scan results to action (both patients now needing to go to theatre so needing an anaesthetic review, slot booking, consenting etc), a ward patient who I was 90% certain had developed a stroke and an angry relative shouting at the nurses because I’d been hiding away ‘on my fucking arse all day’.

At the weekend you usually have the SHO (myself) and a registrar- the registrar is in theatre, reviewing my patients (as I’ve had no formal surgical training you really want an actual surgeon to see you!), going to ED to try and clear the referrals list. For all of the above jobs - I’m the first and only call.

It’s a constant juggling act - impossibly for one person but we’re expected to not drop a single ball. Constant bleeps from bed management asking why you haven’t discharged patient X yet (because you had to go to a trauma call in ED and then take a septic patient to theatre and haven’t had five minutes to do the paperwork but this is irrelevant to them). Surgical nurses are amazing and would have normally taken admission bloods for me, got a list together of most sick to least sick but they’re still reliant on the doctors for the plan and are as frustrated as we are (plus they’re playing bed jenga to get patients admitted - an even more difficult task right now due to Covid-19).

I also wanted to do a good job for my patients and explain what was happening, answer questions etc. We also tended to have end of life patients who I wanted to check on and make sure the nurses were happy with their medication/did anything need tweaking. Ultimately this is why I quit - I couldn’t see how I could work any harder (regularly went 12 hours without a break) but I was still letting patients down.

If a patient self discharged then I’m afraid my first thought would probably be ‘great, one less job’ (I feel awful writing that). If you phoned to come back I would send you to ED as I have no idea what state you’re in and they’re a safe place to wait (if you turned up septic they can start antibiotics, fluids etc) if I’m stuck in theatre/with another patient etc. I wouldn’t even have the ability to admit you directly to our ward as the system would say no (and you will be discharged from the system) - if it was quiet I’d tell ED to refer you straight up when you arrived but it’s a bank holiday weekend - it won’t be quiet.

Basically we need more doctors by the NHS is being run into the ground and there’s no money. I’m not the only person in my year at medical school who has left medicine (I won’t be the last). Even more have gone overseas. It’s not as simple as putting more staff on at the weekend as then we’d be even shorter in the week. There simply aren’t enough of us as a result of decades of underfunding. We know it’s rubbish, we know it’s frustrating.

I really hope you get sorted - I appreciate your concerns about work but I don’t think this is going to be sorted for you by tomorrow. Please go back to ED - be prepared to wait (bring your overnight bag) and be prepared to go through the process again. Have something to eat - odds of you being in theatre within 6 hours on a bank holiday Monday for an abscess are slim. I hope you’re on the mend soon.

We have no flexibility of slack in the system. It’s not good enough but it’s what the general public have voted for.

OnwardsAndSideways1 · 30/08/2021 10:06

The Op should definitely drink as she's in danger of dehydration and ring A and E/surgical ward and ask about times for eating before surgery. I would personally eat and drink because nothing is going to happen that quickly, especially as she isn't even in the building yet (that we know of)!

Sirzy · 30/08/2021 10:07

@Rosscameasdoody

And to previous posters telling the OP to have something to eat before she goes back to the hospital. Not the best advice if she’s a surgical case.
When she hasn’t eaten for over 24 hours for some bizzare reason and she has got herself in the position whereby she is now going to end up sitting waiting again then some food seems sensible. There again it would have been sensible last night when she got home. Or two and a half hours ago when she started this thread.
Surgnamechange · 30/08/2021 10:07

Oh and as a complete aside it’s interesting that it’s never men who worry about getting home to look after their children.

wearyofwigan · 30/08/2021 10:08

I sympathise with you not being given clear communication. That isn't OK and is an unfortunate sign of the times.

However you need to wind your neck in and go back to the hospital. For every rational piece of advice you're given, you have an excuse. It's OK to be scared and stressed but you've cut your nose off to spite your face and the only one that will suffer is you. Had you stayed and made your concerns known, you would have been assessed and had a plan by now. You may have even been back home already.

You are happy to question medical professionals justifications for the type of surgery they want to do and the type of anaesthetic you need, but won't question why you haven't just bloody eaten something.

Good luck with the surgery. Don't risk sepsis.