To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday PART DEUX

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

First thread

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4332702-to-not-want-an-awake-child-around-at-11pm-when-i-m-on-holiday

I asked this morning if she enjoyed her pamper night and she said no, she's getting sick of this nonsense with Alyssa and we will have 'one last hurrah' tonight and get them all to bed on time.

I’m afraid I’d be unable to prevent myself from saying “oh a LAST hurrah? Did I miss one earlier? We’ve been here a week and I don’t recall any evening that could be described as a hurrah”

I hope you’re able to say something to her like you prefer to holiday with your kids or alone as it’s easier to manage than throwing in other dynamics.

I had similar with a friend who has arranged to come over, desperately wanting to talk to me but not left alone for a second, despite valiant attempts. Worse the dc knew somehow we wanted to talk and just wouldn’t allow it. I found it really frustrating and annoying and that was only for a couple of hours!

I’ve said in future that we’ll meet for dinner alone because otherwise we’ll never get to speak openly about things and she understands.

I do get that other people adore their children, I adore mine, but there have to be boundaries so that mum gets time off. evenings were stated as Mine. Past 9pm ds, you’re on my time, and that’s a treat not an entitlement so behave accordingly

I loathe ineffective and wimpy parents, they’re absolutely ruining their kids.

@Boysnme

OP I’d also love to know where you are. Read one of your last posts when we were on holiday and we were really near you (only remember as you were describing a horrific road we’d just driven!) expect you are holidaying within our driving distance.

I will PM you! It's just over a couple of hours away from the A66 (assuming that's the road as I remember the thread )

@Glugglejug

Can’t bear non-assertive adults. Just say what you need to your mate and come to a compromise. A two-thread saga about how awesome you and your daughter are in comparison to another 8 year old girl is just mean spirited and smug - no matter how many mumsnet squares you have replying to you telling you that you’re the greatest mumsnet commenter ever because you said every night was wine night or whatever ‘live laugh love’-esque, ‘wine time’ phrase you came out with.

'Mumsnet squares' Not sure I've ever heard a more 'square' phrase..

I feel like I'm missing something - that he is essentially being rewarded if he does this and so of course he does it again?

That’s exactly what’s happening. Bonkers, isn’t it? So glad my dil hasn’t got the gentle parenting memo. When she speaks sternly I think how amazing she is. They’ll be no Alyssa in that house!

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I love your username by the way! I need to find that film and watch it again

It's on Amazon Prime!

@amillionmenonmars. I'm sure it happens, but I've never come across it. I started teaching in '93 and have taught in 5 different schools. If a child is kicking other children in class then they lose the privilege of sitting with them - they get to sit next to my desk instead. If a child is shouting out in class and they don't heed my (one) warning then they will miss 2 minutes of their playtime - it doesn't sound much, but the novelty wears off for them very quickly when it happens every single time.

SLT have never shared hot chocolate with children and the only cosy chats take place with children who are experiencing trauma. Adverse Childhood Experiences are a huge challenge for us and a lot of time can be spent with a small percentage of children. However, these are children who have suffered and should be receiving more specialist support than we can possibly give them. Children who have 'gentle' parents, strangely, seem to be able to behave when the boundaries are clear.

Can’t bear non-assertive adults

Me either, basically the point of my thread 😂

*Glugglejug
Can’t bear non-assertive adults. Just say what you need to your mate and come to a compromise. A two-thread saga about how awesome you and your daughter are in comparison to another 8 year old girl is just mean spirited and smug - no matter how many mumsnet squares you have replying to you telling you that you’re the greatest mumsnet commenter ever because you said every night was wine night or whatever ‘live laugh love’-esque, ‘wine time’ phrase you came out with.

The OP’s mean spirited? I think you could give lessons.*

Glugglejug is making a pretty objective assessment imho. But yeah, crack on folks

@PlasticOrchid. I too am in primary and sadly I witness this wringing of our system almost daily.
I’ve seen outrageously awful behaviour end with a computer game session in the head’s office on many occasion.

I think it might be a good Idea to talk to your friend about Alyssa's behaviour. If you say you are doing this because you have seen examples where such children have turned into adults with very few friends and who are not really equiped to deal with life as an adult and you want to help to prevent this in Alyssa, then your friend might be prepared to listen to you. I wouldn't say that the examples come from a MN thread you have been posting on about Alyssa's behaviour!

If Alyssa stays in bed tonight you can discuss this at the end of the night,so that you get a good natter beforehand. Or perhaps after the holiday. I hope your future holidays are much more enjoyable!

This is why I'd rather die than teach primary. Discipline and consequences are far more structured in secondary school and I couldn't in good conscience have a chat "unpacking" behaviour with a manipulative 10yo who just thumped a little girl

My son has been in the position of being the child who was thumped. He had been hurt actually but had basically just been given the usual "universal panacea" of a wet blue paper towel and expected to carry on while the other child was taken away to the deputy head's (rather nice) sitting room for "a chat". I had to deal with the aftermath of him feeling like he was in trouble while the other child got away with it.

She is clearly not as resilient and self assured as you are. You actually come across as smug, judgemental and lacking in empathy

Or in other words beeeeeee kiiiiinnnndd.

OP I am old and my kids are grown but just before lockdown I had the pleasure of going to a small childs birthday party. Where I met a pair of gentle parents. Their child (called Tommy for the purposes of this) just ran rampage around the birthday childs party. I remember the parents in hushed voices discussing when and how to start the leaving the party process. It took them an absolute age to leave. First they told Tommy right darling we are leaving now. Tommy runs off and hits another child. Tears and oh darling Tommy say sorry now, no? Well let's talk about this, you must say sorry. And on and on it went. At one point Tommy was running around the garden just evading his parents on the slide, in the ball pool etc
Tommy was threatened with no iPad tonight, no reading a book, straight to bed. Then he was cajoled with a trip for ice cream and many other things. I wanted to just pick Tommy up and deposit him in their car just to have done.

It must be exhausting to gentle parent.

It's on Amazon Prime!

Op is on first name terms with EVERYTHING on Amazon prime thanks to 3breakfasts. She can publish a list if we ask nicely. Just what we all look forward to on holiday, yay! Yet more sodding box sets, as if two lockdowns were not enough!

Throw in Alyssa and my god woman if you can get through this 'holiday' you can get through anything!

My prediction for tonight for what it is worth?

3breasfasts will do her utmost to get Alyssa into bed, sensing the friendship is going tits up rapidly there is an urgency, there will be copious tears and tummy aches and hissing - BUT this is where it gets interesting - will 3breakfasts emerge the winner or will Alyssa?

My bets personally are on ALYSSA. 100%. Anyone else? Shame we can't have a poll.
The evening will evaporate as 3breakfasts spends her entire evening going up and down the stairs, wine turning warm, as she battles with darling daughter....op why not save yourself some time and plan to pack/christmas shop/file your nails/wax your bikini line or just sit back and watch with a front row seat. For sure there is no way Alyssa is going down without a battle!!!!!!

[win]

Light canapes anyone?

I'm totally hooked. Good luck tonight. Your daughter sounds sweet btw. Please tell us where you're staying.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

Is this friend a single parent too? If so I suppose you could arrange to see her in the proviso that her H has the kids?

I am sensing we have a few parents that have their own special Alyssa and are not best pleased reading this thread

Alyssa sounds a lot like one my children with asd. Doesn't understand all the social rules so is very direct and sometimes unintentionally rude with it, will be competitive and smug about winning to make up for the fact they struggle and can't do lots of things NT children never even have to think about and feel shit about, wouldn't be able to sleep and certainly not in a strange place. They were diagnosed quite late because the school refused to acknowledge their difficulties and preferred to blame our parenting. Especially the teachers involved, who for some reason often think they are fully qualified to 'diagnose' that a child doesn't have any anything deeper going on (because apparently being a teacher also makes some think they're fully qualified salts and cp's/paediatricians too ).

You're here being smug about your parenting, how you're telling another persons child off and bitching about how your friend can't put her child to bed yet you're only there because you're too scared to take your own kids away by yourself and you're also too scared to speak to your friend about how much it's frustrated you that you haven't been able to catch up properly. It sounds like you're taking your frustration about the things you can't do out on your friend and her child to make yourself feel better.

I have to admit, this holiday would be a form of torture.

One woman can’t parent, and the other spends the entire holiday bitching to her new boyfriend and a site full of strangers.

If a man I’d just started dating gave me a running account tearing strips off someone who was supposed to be his friend, I would think he was toxic and I’d run a mile.

You must have known her parenting style before you went on holiday. Do you even like her? You were using her for adult company, and it has backfired on you.

BigButtons We're blessed with an old school, fantastic headteacher, who values experience and is prepared to pay for it - they do still exist. I suspect that my days will be numbered once she retires!

She is clearly not as resilient and self assured as you are. You actually come across as smug, judgemental and lacking in empathy

If the OP wasn’t resilient or self assured she’d have a hard time as a secondary teacher. I’d be pretty judgemental and lacking in empathy if I went on holiday and ended up being subjected to exactly the kind of schoolyard behaviour I’d gone on holiday to escape.

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@torchh have PM'd you too[/quote]
Thanking you!

Maybe if so called friend had been up front before agreeing to holiday together she would have been a better friend from the start...
Once holidayed with toddler dd and a new friend and her toddler dd.. Who insisted on a toy from every beach shop... Every ice cream shop she had to have one and chips for every meal. Draining. Bloody draining...
Friendship over before we got back tbh..

@MessyLifeCleanHouse

I wouldn’t exactly call her a shit friend?

I think the one slagging off an 8 year old to a group of strangers is the shit friend. You don’t sound very nice to be around, shouting at others kids? If you ever spoke to my child in any such way I’d be speaking to you in the exact same manner.

I’ll probably get jumped on for going against the majority here as your clearly very popular bitching about your “friend” and her child. However, it would be very very annoying to be in your situation I wouldn’t like it either but I wouldn’t of stopped this low.

We are in the minority. But that's ok. Gentle parenting isn't lazy permissive parenting.

The Op yelled at a 5 year old about a plate but apparently couldn't use the same genius parental style/teacher voice on8 year old. So came here instead of using her words to say to supposed friend what she thought.

Another night of alcohol for Op.

More cheering about locking kids in porches,8 year olds telling off politician's kids, they're all brats... send em down the mine! Back to the days of the workhouse for these overindulged mini inconveniences.
Thankfully we didn't behave like this.
Oh my we may have run through the corn fields once or held a cigarette for someone else, but by heck we went to bed at the strike of 8.

Personally I find the " Just do it...because I said sooooooo" teacher voice style really lazy.
Why can't you just explain to your child, I can't see how it produces children who are superior. Won't they just tell their friends "because I said so?"

Anyway what would I know.
I was only parented by parents who barked orders, locked me in my bedroom until age 9 at bedtime and some if the suggestions applauded on here. You'll produce me. Ha.

Can we Amazon prime same day a bottle of whisky to @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop