Page 10 | To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday PART DEUX

Rosscameasdoody · 28/08/2021 12:09

@SausageRollFan. Why does all bad behaviour need to be classified as a condition ? Not questioning your own child, but from what the OP has described, A is behaving like this because she CAN - friend clearly has no idea how to set boundaries and stick to them.

EL8888 · 28/08/2021 12:13

@Glugglejug how do you tell someone how much of a pain in the arse their child is and how ineffectual their parenting appears to be?

Personally l think OP has been very restrained. Next year you might as well go away with just you and children, you haven’t had a great deal of adult company

EL8888 · 28/08/2021 12:14

@Rosscameasdoody lm with you: classifying all bad behaviour as a condition drives me insane

Davina69 · 28/08/2021 12:15

@SausageRollFan

Alyssa sounds a lot like one my children with asd. Doesn't understand all the social rules so is very direct and sometimes unintentionally rude with it, will be competitive and smug about winning to make up for the fact they struggle and can't do lots of things NT children never even have to think about and feel shit about, wouldn't be able to sleep and certainly not in a strange place. They were diagnosed quite late because the school refused to acknowledge their difficulties and preferred to blame our parenting. Especially the teachers involved, who for some reason often think they are fully qualified to 'diagnose' that a child doesn't have any anything deeper going on (because apparently being a teacher also makes some think they're fully qualified salts and cp's/paediatricians too

).

You're here being smug about your parenting, how you're telling another persons child off and bitching about how your friend can't put her child to bed yet you're only there because you're too scared to take your own kids away by yourself and you're also too scared to speak to your friend about how much it's frustrated you that you haven't been able to catch up properly. It sounds like you're taking your frustration about the things you can't do out on your friend and her child to make yourself feel better.

I also have a NT child, my DS11.

He can appear rude, difficult and downright obstructive but it's usually due to him misjudging social interaction or because he's struggling with a situation.

Despite his difficulties he knows now what our boundaries are, and that if he's worried about something or is uncomfortable in a situation, it's better to say how he feels rather than his behaviour be misinterpreted as bad behaviour.

I don't tolerate bad behaviour even if he is NT because when he's an adult there are certain rules in society and the workplace that he's going to need to follow whether he likes them or he doesn't !

jakeyboy1 · 28/08/2021 12:15

How have I only just found this thread - it will go down in MN history!

OP are the days any better at all or equally as bad as the nights? Do you think she has any realisation whatsoever?!

We went on holiday once with friends who have to stay in the room until the kids sleep- so basically the kids don't sleep. Cue us waiting downstairs until gone 9.30pm bloody starving for our tea. One night it got so bad we ordered takeaway and had eaten it all by the time they got downstairs.

jakeyboy1 · 28/08/2021 12:17

Ps as OP has Netflix I think she should put Sex Life on screen at 9pm and not budge ;)

Angryfrommanchester1 · 28/08/2021 12:18

[quote EL8888]@Rosscameasdoody lm with you: classifying all bad behaviour as a condition drives me insane[/quote]
Hear hear. Some kids (and adults) are just insufferable competitive nobs, who thinks the world revolves around them.
I have a friend who’s eldest daughter revels in winning and announcing it. Whilst it was cute when she was tiny, a 9 year old throwing a full on red faced tantrum about not winning is pretty appalling. She will even cheat to win, and her mum thinks that’s cute too .

torchh · 28/08/2021 12:19

@Globaluser

I must say, i can’t believe this post is a two parter...

Why? We're all very invested.

JudgeJ · 28/08/2021 12:20

@MsTSwift

How the op has not cracked and screamed “just get the fuck to bed” is heroic self control.

Poor parents don't like that though. When we moved into this house a couple came round who we knew slightly with their three 'perfect' children and they proceeded to climb a tree. I warned the parents that it was pretty unstable and it was best if they didn't climb it. 'Come down dear' repeated with equal wetness a few times, children looked at them shook their heads and carried on. Eventually OH picked up the hosepipe and shouted 'Get down this miinute or else I'll use this!'. Friends were horrified, 'they're not used to being spoken to harshly', OH, 'well that's pretty obvious, isn't it?' Didn't see much of them after they left fairly soon aftwards, thank goodness.

mumjustmum · 28/08/2021 12:21

I'm now understandably put off from reading the two how to talk books on my shelf - appreciate the warning!
Can anyone recommend a good book please? I have a 2.8yr old and twin 1.8yr olds. Thank you

Rosscameasdoody · 28/08/2021 12:23

@torchh. Yep, I’ve been very invested from the start. Can’t wait for the final denouement later - have wine chilling and snacks lined up !!

BigButtons · 28/08/2021 12:23

@PlasticOrchid

BigButtons We're blessed with an old school, fantastic headteacher, who values experience and is prepared to pay for it - they do still exist. I suspect that my days will be numbered once she retires!

You are lucky. We are supposed to have a rigid behaviour system and to some extent it works- for the majority- I personally think the sanctions aren’t severe enough for some and it really undermines all staff when the hideous behaviour is paid lip service to.

JudgeJ · 28/08/2021 12:23

[quote Rosscameasdoody]@SausageRollFan. Why does all bad behaviour need to be classified as a condition ? Not questioning your own child, but from what the OP has described, A is behaving like this because she CAN - friend clearly has no idea how to set boundaries and stick to them.[/quote]
Because classifying it as a condition absolves those in charge from any responsibilty.

torchh · 28/08/2021 12:26

@TheYearOfSmallThings

I also got that book...how to talk so small kids will listen. I also thought it was a bag of shit

Thank God I'm not alone.

My kid isn't even smart, but he is smarter than that book gives him credit for.

I'm actually rather upset because my friend recommended it to me because 'it's soo good'...

No, it isn't

Original poster

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 12:31

@starfishmummy

This is why I'd rather die than teach primary. Discipline and consequences are far more structured in secondary school and I couldn't in good conscience have a chat "unpacking" behaviour with a manipulative 10yo who just thumped a little girl

My son has been in the position of being the child who was thumped. He had been hurt actually but had basically just been given the usual "universal panacea" of a wet blue paper towel and expected to carry on while the other child was taken away to the deputy head's (rather nice) sitting room for "a chat". I had to deal with the aftermath of him feeling like he was in trouble while the other child got away with it.

That's really sad

primary friends are increasingly getting frustrated with a lot of things at the moment, if anyone wants a job with no joy go into teaching (we need people!)

OP posts:

callmeadoctor · 28/08/2021 12:31

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!! Have a competition with the kids tonight for "child who goes to bed first!!!!!!!!!!!" YAY Ive sorted it

AllCatsAreSpecial · 28/08/2021 12:32

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop fair enough you’d rather “die” than teach primary, but I can assure you it’s not like that in my classroom or my school in general. Tends to be schools who adopt random “restorative” approaches Wily nilly and seem to think that every single “behaviour” is due to some trauma in the child’s life.

I have a brilliant relationship with my classes and I really would do anything to help them. Sometimes (often) a firm boundary and no pandering to them is what is helpful.

I would like to teach secondary RE one day!

Yesitsbess · 28/08/2021 12:32

@mumjustmum

I'm now understandably put off from reading the two how to talk books on my shelf - appreciate the warning! Can anyone recommend a good book please? I have a 2.8yr old and twin 1.8yr olds. Thank you

I think that's not so much 'parenting' as 'crowd control'

May the force be with you.

MzHz · 28/08/2021 12:33

[quote EL8888]@Rosscameasdoody lm with you: classifying all bad behaviour as a condition drives me insane[/quote]
I have friends with children with ‘conditions’ they KNOW that to help their kids learn, they have to set boundaries and mean them, they have to be clear and consistent and they have to be firm when it’s needed.

Even if things did go tits up for whatever reason, they’re skilled at managing the situation for the benefit of the child

Trotting out with the usual bleat of ‘what if A has SN…’ is supporting lazy and ineffective parenting

Original poster

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 12:34

@SausageRollFan

Alyssa sounds a lot like one my children with asd. Doesn't understand all the social rules so is very direct and sometimes unintentionally rude with it, will be competitive and smug about winning to make up for the fact they struggle and can't do lots of things NT children never even have to think about and feel shit about, wouldn't be able to sleep and certainly not in a strange place. They were diagnosed quite late because the school refused to acknowledge their difficulties and preferred to blame our parenting. Especially the teachers involved, who for some reason often think they are fully qualified to 'diagnose' that a child doesn't have any anything deeper going on (because apparently being a teacher also makes some think they're fully qualified salts and cp's/paediatricians too

).

You're here being smug about your parenting, how you're telling another persons child off and bitching about how your friend can't put her child to bed yet you're only there because you're too scared to take your own kids away by yourself and you're also too scared to speak to your friend about how much it's frustrated you that you haven't been able to catch up properly. It sounds like you're taking your frustration about the things you can't do out on your friend and her child to make yourself feel better.

Except I've seen my friend's parenting IS a direct factor in her DD's inability to sleep. Why go to sleep when you can stay up and play instead?

And yes teachers are the enemy here

OP posts:

Opalfeet · 28/08/2021 12:34

I found toddler taming alright, although the reviews were that it was too harsh on the child and advocated smacking. Nowhere did I read anything about smacking as a method of discipline in the book. 🤷‍♀️

Original poster

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 12:35

If a man I’d just started dating gave me a running account tearing strips off someone who was supposed to be his friend, I would think he was toxic and I’d run a mile

Good for you? .

You must have known her parenting style before you went on holiday. Do you even like her? You were using her for adult company, and it has backfired on you.

What else do we 'use' friends for are when we become mothers are we only mum and not entitled to our own company.

I did know she was 'softer' on her kids than I am but like I say she lives away and we are actually 'living' together to a week it creates a whole new dynamic

OP posts:

pinkyredrose · 28/08/2021 12:36

final day of the trip culminated in the two mothers trying to outdo each other with competitive tea towel and sock ironing

Rosscameasdoody · 28/08/2021 12:39

@JudgeJ. Because classifying it as a condition absolves those in charge from any responsibility.

I’ve often thought this. Before I get flamed, I do appreciate that there are genuine conditions quantifiable by the patterns of behaviour. But I do know a mum who has never set boundaries for her child, and who has indulged frankly appalling behaviour. The kid is now pre-teen and is an absolute nightmare, while mum is trying to pass off the behaviour as ADHD. As far as I know there has never been any investigation for this - it’s just an excuse so she doesn’t have to take the blame for a lifetime of unchecked bad behaviour.

VickyEadieofThigh · 28/08/2021 12:40

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

If a man I’d just started dating gave me a running account tearing strips off someone who was supposed to be his friend, I would think he was toxic and I’d run a mile

Good for you? .

You must have known her parenting style before you went on holiday. Do you even like her? You were using her for adult company, and it has backfired on you.

What else do we 'use' friends for are when we become mothers are we only mum and not entitled to our own company.

I did know she was 'softer' on her kids than I am but like I say she lives away and we are actually 'living' together to a week it creates a whole new dynamic

Finding out that a friend is rather different on holiday is not confined to friends with kids, too.

Partner and I (we're both women) took a very old friend of mine to Venice with us 5 years ago, where we rented a lovely house. She'd never been, we love it and wanted to show her the city.

We still occasionally rant about it, out of the blue, because she was a fucking nightmare the whole time - and this is someone I was at school with, who I've had holidays, weekends, stayed with and vice versa over the past 45 years.

She was a mardy cow the whole week and entirely ruined the experience.