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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday PART DEUX

999 replies

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 00:41

First thread

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4332702-to-not-want-an-awake-child-around-at-11pm-when-i-m-on-holiday

OP posts:
Newnewnew1179 · 28/08/2021 13:13

Hope you manage to have a nice adult final evening OP. Cannot be doing with constant explanations and negotiating with small children and I really don’t think it’s generally good for them in the long run, firm boundaries and the knowledge that the adults are in charge (kindly dictatorship style) helps children feel secure IMO. I’ve said “because I said so” quite a lot over the years - said it yesterday when my DS was whining about having to go for an eye test, he knows exactly why he has to go, just like he knows why he needs to go bed or why he has to wear shoes outside.

MsTSwift · 28/08/2021 13:15

So glad my kids single sex secondary is a hard arse type school run by an ex military woman who puts up with absolutely zero shit. Has best results in the county wonder why…

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 28/08/2021 13:16

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop - this is for your DD

ChargingBuck · 28/08/2021 13:18

If it's her parenting, why doesn't her other child behave in the same way?

Because 3Breakfasts only indulges & panders to her elder child.
It's all there in the first thread - Alyssa is her mother's favourite, & she spoils her.

Peach1886 · 28/08/2021 13:18

2 hours from A66 going north or south @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop?

Where you are sounds like an ideal holiday place for us...but I'm going on my own with DS Grin

ChargingBuck · 28/08/2021 13:25

And whoever else mentioned there are no boundaries around sleep (sorry can't find it now), there are boundaries, the child goes to bed with her mum and goes to sleep, that's the boundary. She's not up running around all night.

@SausageRollFan, are you reading the same thread as the rest of us?

The child has spent each night of the holiday out of bed until at least 11pm, while the entire evening's adult time revolved around playing Dobble & listening to Alyssa boast about her accomplishments.
Last night she even concocted a tummy ache - a rare medical condition to which the only remedy is staying up 'til gone 11 painting her mother's feet.

I'm sorry for OP, who has been tactful & generous with her time.
But I'm sorrier for this child, who is learning nothing about how to win friends & influence people ...

GromblesofGrimbledon · 28/08/2021 13:31

@CoronaPeroni

After my previous post about our soft behaviour policy in school, I have just googled it and to my horror it is a county-wide programme! And not just my county. Norfolk, Cambridgeshire, Hertfordshire, Dorset to name but a few, have all had the 'de-escalation experts' in and are endorsing it as the best thing since sliced bread! It is called STEPS. STEP up, STEP down, many variations - beware! Remember the name, it's coming to a school near YOU!

In Scotland we have "restorative conversations". Teachers who go in for it spend a lot of time having "little chats" outside the classroom with the same troublemakers again and again. Hours and hours wasted over the course of a week while the rest of the class are abandoned to get on with work.

They are a pointless, indulgent waste of time.

torchh · 28/08/2021 13:33

Does anyone know if this bullshit discipline is prevalent in private schools too?

DoWhatYouWantToAndShh · 28/08/2021 13:35

[quote SausageRollFan]**@SausageRollFan. Why does all bad behaviour need to be classified as a condition ? Not questioning your own child, but from what the OP has described, A is behaving like this because she CAN - friend clearly has no idea how to set boundaries and stick to them.

It doesn't, but the very fact that it's decided from what OP has said it must be bad behaviour is exactly what I'm talking about . No one here is qualified or in a position to know and decide that. Nor am I in a position to say the child does have any difficulties, but it's certainly better to be open minded and support, because where does judgment get anyone?

Except I've seen my friend's parenting IS a direct factor in her DD's inability to sleep. Why go to sleep when you can stay up and play instead?

And? Lots of people saw our parenting and decided the same. Guess what, they were wrong. If it's her parenting, why doesn't her other child behave in the same way?

Because classifying it as a condition absolves those in charge from any responsibility.

Not at all. But standard parenting techniques don't always work with neurodiverse kids. People see you not doing xyz and this decide makes you a shit parent, when doing that would only escalate the situation rather than give any effectual remedy and certainly wouldn't 'teach' the child anything useful

*I have friends with children with ‘conditions’ they KNOW that to help their kids learn, they have to set boundaries and mean them, they have to be clear and consistent and they have to be firm when it’s needed.

Even if things did go tits up for whatever reason, they’re skilled at managing the situation for the benefit of the child*

I totally agree, and as said above it's not an excuse, but boundaries often look different and so do the parenting techniques for dealing with whatever is going on. Sounds like this mum hasn't got the skills to manage her child's behaviour, but that does make her a terrible parent, it's not something we all instantly know, we learn as we go along and if you have a child with difficulties peoples insistence you parent them in a certain way actually only delays how long it takes you to sus out the best way to parent them, as they feel pressured to do so in a certain way which often just doesn't work.

And whoever else mentioned there are no boundaries around sleep (sorry can't find it now), there are boundaries, the child goes to bed with her mum and goes to sleep, that's the boundary. She's not up running around all night. The boundary is different to the norm though so therefore it's criticised. You can't expect someone to suddenly parent their child differently for a week because you don't like how they do it it. If that's what works best for the parent and mum into one else's business, no one forced OP to go on holiday amd she admits herself she knew what the child's behaviour was like so why would you expect it to suddenly change on holiday?

As a side note, as adults we're told if we can't sleep, to get up and do stuff and go back to bed when tired, yet kids are expected to suck it up and are often held to higher standards than adults are. It's quite bizarre really. Same could be said for op whinging about child's awful behaviour when she's on mums net bitching about her friend behind her back. Child should be kind and polite at all times, yet it's acceptable for adults not to be Hmm[/quote]
Couldn't have said it better.

hopeso · 28/08/2021 13:36

OP, would love to know where this holiday place is, too, thank you.

CoronaPeroni · 28/08/2021 13:36

Exactly @GromblesofGrimbledon!Our little 'terrors' sit and smirk not quite believing their luck!

beastlyslumber · 28/08/2021 13:37

I think it's Jordan Peterson who talks about parents' responsibility to not allow your kids to be annoying to others. Because being liked and enjoyed by adults is pretty important to how you progress through life, the sorts of opportunities you get and the experiences you have. Likewise, being liked and enjoyed by your peers is incredibly valuable. Parents who let their kids behave like Alyssa are doing them a great disservice.

amillionmenonmars · 28/08/2021 13:38

@GromblesofGrimbledon We also have to have restorative conversations. In our own time. I have wasted far too many lunch times over this nonsense.

I would far rather spend this time supporting the kids who actually need it. I usually spend the lunch time in my room marking. Some of the quieter kids or the ones who have trouble making friends, or who just want a nice, quiet space in the middle of the day often find their way to my room. It has become a sort of informal 'club'. Sometimes they help with little admin tasks or just play board games or chat with each other. I really resent that I have to say no them being in there when the 'restorative' sessions take place.

DoWhatYouWantToAndShh · 28/08/2021 13:38

@MsTSwift

So glad my kids single sex secondary is a hard arse type school run by an ex military woman who puts up with absolutely zero shit. Has best results in the county wonder why…
Dictatorships get good results. Fear gets good results.

Doesn't support creativity and diverse thinking.

stepupandbecounted · 28/08/2021 13:40

Alyssa sounds a lot like one my children with asd

I am assuming if your child finds it very hard in social situations etc the very last thing you would do is take the child on holiday with another family sausage Particularly a family that had no idea of your child's SEN needs/may want a different kind of holiday to the one you describe. It is not okay.

BluebellsGreenbells · 28/08/2021 13:41

Parents who let their kids behave like Alyssa are doing them a great disservice.

Absolutely and by year 5/6 other children begin to disassociate from them and the parents head into school to complain their darling is being bullied - then off to high school they go and NObody wants to hang round with them or invite them along to parties etc because they now have a choice of who to spend time with having been stuck with them for primary!

stepupandbecounted · 28/08/2021 13:41

And Alyssa has no known SEN, she is a spoilt brat overindulged by her mother.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 13:43

@mumjustmum

I'm now understandably put off from reading the two how to talk books on my shelf - appreciate the warning! Can anyone recommend a good book please? I have a 2.8yr old and twin 1.8yr olds. Thank you
You have three under three?

You don't need a book, you need alcohol. Lots of it

OP posts:
cstaff · 28/08/2021 13:44

I am only amazed that it took 2 threads and about 1200 posts for ASD to be mentioned. Jeez.

Op i hope tonight is more successful but I'm not sure how confident I would be.

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 13:45

@callmeadoctor

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!! Have a competition with the kids tonight for "child who goes to bed first!!!!!!!!!!!" YAY Ive sorted it Grin
OMG that is actually a stroke of genius!
OP posts:
Window1 · 28/08/2021 13:45

[quote AllCatsAreSpecial]@theluckiest fucking Paul dix! I was on placement at a (shite) school where the head had desperately imposed his method on all the teachers. Result: disruptive kids getting all the attention and positive reinforcement.[/quote]
Does he take a gentle teaching approach?

Are there any redeeming features of the Paul Dix method?

LoislovesStewie · 28/08/2021 13:47

Actually I think that it is essential for kids with ASD to just be told 'no'. There is no ambiguity, nothing to argue about, nothing to make them think that 'no' means 'yes' or 'maybe'. (Said as the mother of an adult ASD son). It's OK to explain at some point but the word 'no' at a time of crisis works.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 28/08/2021 13:51

"...One in particular in the back of the car where my (younger) child was really frightened by the screaming and thrashing, and friend just sat there texting and murmuring “we’ll be home soon…” confused I ended up pulling the car over to comfort my child and asking friend’s child to stop - she did but friend was in a strop for the whole day afterwards about me parenting her child..."

When she was stropping about you parenting her child, @iwannabelikeyouhoohoo, how hard did you have to bite your tongue, so you didn't reply: "Well - someone had to!!" ?

Sunbird24 · 28/08/2021 13:52

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop not just who can be in bed first, but who can be quietest once they’re in there (sorry to your poor DS who breathes!) and actually stay in their bed on their own til morning!

boogiewithasuitcase · 28/08/2021 13:54

@callmeadoctor

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!! Have a competition with the kids tonight for "child who goes to bed first!!!!!!!!!!!" YAY Ive sorted it Grin
And they have to stay in bed not keep getting up!Smile