To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

Awful behaviour. Why do people do it? One of mom friends from DDs school invited 6 of us to a local wine bar. She rocked up with her 12 year old daughter. So conversation was stilted to say the least. Dreadful evening.

You have to say something OP. There's nothing wrong with that child. She just loves the attention.

Sounds awful. Once it’s gone on for 4 days though, a pattern has been established and it is unlikely it will be broken over the last few days.

It’s such a tricky one. People do parent differently and have different tolerances for allowing their child to be a bit upset or for being firm about going to bed. It’s a reason why lots of people do t like to share holidays.

We go on holiday with another family. Luckily, when they were small we all aimed for 7pm bedtime followed by lovely adult meal. Now the kids just stay up as some are almost adults, but they don’t require input and we always have holiday houses with 2 living rooms so often the kids are in one and the adults in the other during evening….or if we’re altogether, it doesn’t really limit us anymore.

Chalk it up to experience and don’t go with this family again. But you’re unlikely to manage to change it for this week now the pattern has been firmly established over 4 consecutive days.

what a nightmare. The Horrid Henry in the evening would FINISH me.

The nicest child can be as irritating as hell when they are inserting themselves into what should be adult time. Dobble at 2pm is not the same as Dobble at 9pm.

We all need a break from the kids. And you made actual plans for adult things you wanted to do.

It's the DM's fault. Totally. It's making you focus on how irritating the kid is which wouldn't normally happen if she was upstairs in bed at an appropriate time. Alyssa is revelling in the audience, the adult attention, the being downstairs, the Dobble etc etc . Why would she go to sleep?! It's a no brainier?

I'm not sure what I'd do. But I couldn't listen to kid's TV in the evening . I think I'd go and have a bath. "Think I'll have an early night ... Nite "

@BungleandGeorge

Not unreasonable to expect the kids to be in bed by 9. However, listening to a blow by blow account of someone’s new relationship/ amazing new partner can be the equivalent of playing dobble...

I don't expect to give a 'blow by blow' account just say what we've done, places we've been, much like I hear constantly from my married friends about what they've been up to with their husbands lately

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@LizzieBet14 yes WHY do people think that? When I tell new people "I'm a teacher" they always say something like "Oh I bet you LOVE children" or even worse, if there's an issue with some random children they expect you to chip in/solve like some sort of unpaid mediator [/quote]
I notice this. Im a teacher and love children but in my own time I want to be me, focus on my children and talk about adult things! I don’t want to hear about how little x is so clever and up to stage 10 or how little x is the most popular. Firstly because I don’t believe them 😄 and secondly because I want to relax! Im not at work!

Yanbu

Letting the child sleep extra in the morning will just perpetuate the problem. She needs to be got up early and made to have an active, energetic and exhausting day.

If she can't sleep she can read quietly in her bed. After 9pm is grownup time downstairs and children are only allowed down if they are actually bleeding/on fire/vomiting or similar levels of emergency. Not being able to sleep is not an emergency.

If course she is enjoying having 2 extra hours each evening of having the adult attention all to herself rather than sharing with the other kids. It makes her feel grownup and special. If she keeps being given this experience every evening then nothing will change.

Be honest with your friend. Tell her you need child-free downtime in the evening or your holiday is just a stressful unpleasant experience for you. Be firm and assertive.

My sister is like this about her DD, who can do no wrong, and who she looks at with starstruck eyes. Her boys, who are lovely, don’t get the same treatment at all. All the indulgence has turned DN into Violet Elizabeth whom my kids refuse to go on holiday with.

My sister caught a mutual friend of ours giving her DD the V sign when DD’s back was turned. And while I made all the appropriate disapproving noises I wasn’t unsympathetic.

It’s a real lesson not to turn your kids into monsters through over-indulgence.

OMG this would drive me potty. I actually think it's really rude of your friend to not consider that you might not want to buddy up with her eight year old in the evenings on holiday. It tends to be people who are a bit vain and think their little darlings are an extension of their wonderful ness.

Congratulations on your new relationship. It sounds fab!

I think the habit is too strong and it’s a bit of a write off. But you can def go to your room and read etc as others have said. Also say you’ll have to organise an adult only night out when you get back.

Another here that thinks the OP deserves a medal .And to say how glad I am that you have a new boyfriend!

And also possibly place marking for tonight's update .

You need to be honest with your friend.

"Look, I know you adore your children, but no offence, I am never going to love your children more than I love mine. And I don't want to spend the evening with my own children, why would I want to spend it with yours?"

There doesn’t need to be a massive falling out or critique of her parenting skills (although she sounds in thrall to her DD).

Just refuse to play Dobble or watch Horrid Henry and be very firm to both of them that you won’t join in. I think taking yourself onto the balcony with wine (lots), book and iPad will give a clear signal.

I agree with telling your friend you need some adult down time. And announcing to all the kids they have to be in and stay in beds by 9. Your friends DD is having her “specialness” reinforced by the 3 hours a night she is getting with the two adults and isn’t going to give that up without a fight. But if your friend won’t appreciate your needs and caves again tonight then I would very much take myself off with my wine and kindle/iPad and just tell her you’ll leave them to it because as you said earlier, you want to relax on your holiday with a bit of child free time. It will soon become boring to daughter when she only has mummy and can’t show off/try to listen in to adults.

I love DD she’s great company. However she needs to go to bed if I’m having a drink.
I can’t cope with alcohol and her non stop chat. Spoils my drink buzz straight away.

@1AngelicFruitCake oh yes the "James is at stage 11 reading at just 5!". And then they do the 'Ill wait for you to be impressed' face

I just say I teach secondary and have no idea if that's good or bad

Goodness she’s doing her daughter absolutely no favours - she’s going to grow up to be a truly obnoxious, self-centred person who will likely be incapable of actually being happy.

If you talk to your friend and it still doesn’t change (I really don’t think it will), you’ll have to excuse yourself every evening.

And I know it’s a bit late now but I truly think holidaying with friends and their children is almost inevitably utterly fraught because there’s usually a great disparity in how the children are handled and I’m sure you’ll be steering well clear in future!

Hope you somehow get to enjoy the rest of your time away.

Think you have to be clear with her @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

Look friend, i need some space to decompress, we came here for some adult time too and the kids MUST go to bed and stay there.

Let’s tell them to go to bed at 9pm and tell them they’re staying there till the morning, I’ve been tolerant of it for 4 nights, that’s it, it stops today. I don’t want to spend my evenings entertaining kids till 11pm, I don’t want to play Dobbie or watch kids tv.

Sounds awful, but not the child’s fault at all, your friend is to blame here.

I wonder what would happen if your kids stayed up, I don’t expect your friend would like it? Perhaps the most diplomatic way of dealing with it, would be to say, it was fun last night, the kids would have enjoyed that, let’s make a rule that when one goes to bed, they all go to bed, I bet her dd won’t want to stay up if their are others around.

Good luck.

My sister caught a mutual friend of ours giving her DD the V sign when DD’s back was turned. And while I made all the appropriate disapproving noises I wasn’t unsympathetic.

This really made me laugh

FrangipanDeLaSquigeeMop I have the greatest sympathy for you, since I hit my 50's I've found myself resonating on my life and the areas where I've been a total wimp and made mistakes as a way of atonement I'm encouraging my friends and colleagues to 'right' my cowardly 'trying to do the right thing' which resulted in doing 'the wrong thing' and constantly putting myself and my kids feelings on the back burner. So good on you OP, being as honest as you are is always correct in the long term. Your friend is delusional the other kids good behaviour should be praised. Your friend is sacrificing your company and wisdom as well as putting the feelings of her 5 year old behind her older daughter, it's going to be interesting when she hits high school.

Keep us posted. 🍿 ☕️🥂 are stocked.

IME anything you say or do is going to upset your friend. She is clearly of the opinion her DDs company is desirable and genuinely won't be able to comprehend anyone thinking otherwise. Id bet my house she would see it as a sleight and be offended. And the one thing most people find very hard to get past is perceived insult to their DC. If I was you I'd be very resentful and I certainly wouldn't stick around when the child showed up, but if I wanted to stay friends I'd not say anything. If she's a long term good friend, it's not worth losing her over. She won't have DC this age forever and there will come a time when how she parents is no longer an issue, so it would be a shame if it caused a rift now.

I've said abut kids going to bed at 9 and having an adult night, friend has agreed so we will see how it goes

What a nightmare, she sounds like a little madam.

I agree with everyone else, a big push towards bedtime and if she still comes down - you go back up!

However, listening to a blow by blow account of someone’s new relationship/ amazing new partner can be the equivalent of playing dobble...

It's not the equivalent of playing dobble if they are a friend and they have been through a difficult time. It's wonderful for them that things have improved. Besides the OP is entitled to go on a bit to make up for all the evenings playing dobble.

I do hope you get a chance to do this, Frangipani. The only worry is that having spent all the evenings listening to your friend's 8 year old, you might accidentally find yourself talking in the same narrative style: 'he says I am the best ever ....'

kitchen disco on Iplayer on loud volume to make unliading the dishwasher fun.