To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

What did you say @Nocutenamesleft?

Young children often show off to 'grown ups' who are not their parents. They think they being adult but of course they aren't, they just irritate. I don't suppose Alyssa would be swanning around, bragging, if other children were present.

Let both of the older children stay up and amuse themselves and each other. Each parent can tell their own that they want to relax and chat with their friend so please don't interrupt; likewise, the parents will not interrupt or interfere with what the children are doing.

At least when she starts boasting about how wonderful she is OP can say "Except on the climbing wall, isn't that right?"

...or maybe she doesn't feel the need to score points against an 8 year old?

@SunshineCake

What did you say *@Nocutenamesleft*?

Eh?

I agree with you OP.

Some people seem to think having their child attached to them 24/7 is the best way to parent and suggest it makes them better parents 🤣 it really doesn’t.

Adults are allowed to have down time. At 8 year old they are more than capable of going to bed whilst parents stay downstairs.

I wonder go again

@ChargingBuck

I’m not saying the few examples of patenting OP has shared paint the friend or Alyssa in the best light but no doubt there will be other positive examples of the friend and daughter she’s decided not to share as they won’t be as entertaining

Er ... as you say, @BillyIsMyBunny ... Most of this is conjecture.

You accuse PP (me) of cherry-picking - then cherry-pick from your own invented scenarios!

I haven’t invented any scenarios or cherry picked anything as far as I can tell? I’ve just said presumably there must be some positive aspects to the OP’s friend and Alyssa as otherwise I doubt the OP would have forged a friendship so close they’re holidaying together. This isn’t a relation or colleague that the OP has been stuck with but somebody she calls a friend who she chose to spend the holiday with and she’s said in her first post the kids get on well so I would be surprised if the friend and Alyssa really are as awful as they are being made out to be on here 100% of the time. Of course I could be very wrong but if they are really as awful as the picture some of the posters on here are conjuring up the OP should have packed her bags and gone home days ago rather than subject her DC to that but the fact she isn’t looking to do that suggests there are probably some positives to both the friend and child?

@MsTSwift

😁 Baffles me - haven’t the gentle parents lived on this earth? A parents job is to prepare your kid for life and sometimes life isn’t easy and fitting in / being resilient/ getting on with stuff and getting on with other people is absolutely key. You simply cannot gain those skills if you are raised as a little emperor / empress. It’s ding then no favours at all.

Oh don't.

I was once asked on the GP group (as I said, I left it long ago) in disbelieving tones:

'So you just want your child to be .... compliant?'

Erm well I don't want them to be a fearful brow beaten shell of a person who who follows my every command without question, no. But a degree of being compliant, able to get on, follow a clear set of instructions without faffing about etc is needed in life! How do these 'gently' parented children cope in school (lots are homeschooled I suppose). And later on, work? In my experience not many bosses (or teachers) like or have time to give detailed explanations as to why they're setting a task, how the student/ employee feels about it etc etc!

As my old (brilliantly efficient) boss used to say JFDI!

Horsefly I feel sorry for those kids.

@TolkiensFallow

Dear god. All these people letting their kids stay up all hours! 8:30 to me is letting them stay up a bit late because it’s the holidays. My 4 year old is put to bed at 7 on the dot and if she messes about she’s in trouble. Throughout primary school we will gradually extend it to 7:30 then 8 I’m term time. 8:30 is a treat for a holiday.

Stand your ground OP. You’re doing a great job.

Good luck with that!

Imagine such a child starting their first waitressing job or similar as a teen in a busy pub!

I know an Alyssa who is now a teenager. She is actually really and is developing a quite serious MH issue. You never know exactly what causes that but a few years ago and an OH discussed how worried we were about her future as she was basically a truly unpleasant person to be with on account of having no regard for anyone else's preferences or needs as her parents did not ever ask or teach her to. I think as she has got older a lot of potential or burgeoning friends have moved on from her as she is no someone people now want to spend time with. I actually really feel for the Alyssas of this world who probably have a really nasty wake-up call coming.

@stepupandbecounted

billy Op is looking for support, and not without good reason, and you seem to be overanalysing. It is okay to like a friend and not enjoy the company or their kids or agree on parenting style. If this thread gets op through the holiday without a falling out then it would have done its job well.

Most of us know an Alyssa and sympathise wholeheartedly with op. No one would ever post anything ever on here if we were not allowed to be honest about our feelings, what about the people that post about their own children or parents etc? Does that make everyone a bad person for looking for help? Of course not.

Op needs a bloody medal (and another holiday) I don't think she has said anything unkind, quite frankly she has shown the patience of a saint, I would have been long gone.

Well said.

My almost 5 and 9 year olds have same bedtime - thankfully they like their sleep
When we’ve been lucky enough to go away this summer when at times bedtime has been closer to 10 because we’ve just been busy and home late or they wouldn’t go to sleep but then they’re still up between six and 6:30 and are vile!!!!!!!!
Nothing wrong with adult time
Sorry it’s been disappointing op

Some of this could have been avoided though, I think. Of course an eight year old is going to push her luck, especially if she is getting time to play games and watch tv when the others are in bed.

OP, you come across an assertive person, imo. I'm surprised that you didn't say nicely, after the first night that you weren't playing along, literally.

3 breakfasts parenting sounds insufferable.

Yet another ex-colleague (oh, I've worked with some really, erm interesting people...) told me she gives her child a menu and if, halfway through a dish, they decided they didn't want it, she'd make something else. So it would seem that three breakfasts concept isn't entirely uncommon.

All joking aside, I do genuinely wonder how these children cope when they grow up and leave the insulated parent-protection bubble to find that the world doesn't actually revolve around them. It must be a helluva nasty shock.

The poor parenting you are describing is permissive parenting, not gentle. 'Gentle' parenting has high expectations and boundaries - unfortunately when misconstrued and badly done it becomes 'shit parenting' - which it really isn't.

On the bedtime front, I have one terribly good, responds well to teacher voice, asleep by 7pm type thing. I don't think I was smug, at least I hope not, but then second child arrived with SEN and I'm the parent nightly (well every other night), settling child between 9- 11pm. It's been an eye opener.

I feel for you, I do but if Alyssa's mum is texting you bemoaning the fact that Alyssa's awake at 10pm, she was never going to magically going to transform to an 8.30 bedtime on holiday. Due to DC2 I'm really clear about what bedtime looks like when invited to stay places with him (to be clear it doesn't involve him downstairs) but it does take me or DH out of company until he's settled. So if anything that's where your friend went wrong... although perhaps she's embarrassed. I'm not saying Alyssa has SEN by the way and it's bloody infuriating when parents are seeming oblivious to their DCs impact on others.

I am watching an Alyssa emerge from the bubble now, and it isn't pretty.

Having now realised she is not the best at absolutely everything, isn't going to win Xfactor, become a super model or run the bank of England (or whatever her latest claim) she now has MH issues and a superiority complex.

Rather than developing compassion, curiosity and character, she is a scratchy, shallow shell of a person and is so very vain and self obsessed she isn't even able to fully register that there are other people even in the room, much less that they may have feelings/a view.

She spent three hours speaking about herself non stop when we last saw her, and when we did change the subject briefly whilst she paused for air, she switched the conversation immediately back to herself. With I kid you not 'Thats nice, now back to me' {confused] I thought people only spoke like that in American spoofs.
She has had one job so far, and left because the other girls in her team were 'jealous' of her good looks and asked not to work with her, so she felt victimised. She was not victimised, it must have been hell working with her for 8 hours. Unless she can convince a man she is as perfect as she says she is, she is destined for a very lonely life. Now without friends the confidence has evaporated and she seems unsure of herself or her place in the world, she has no real identity of her own - only the one her mother superimposed on her. It is sad to watch if I am honest, least of all because she could have been an outstanding young woman.

Her mother blames the school btw.

I'm almost ashamed (but not quite) to admit that you have highlighted to me that Harry Potter Dobble exists, @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop, and I have now ordered it for DS2's birthday
(we like Dobble, sorry!)

I don’t get what the issue is with having the same bed time. My younger two who share a room both go to bed at 7pm regardless of it being a school night or not. School nights they can read for a bit, non school nights they can have a movie on or play quietly in their room together.

I don’t want a livingroom full of children till 9/10pm stopping me watching whatever on tv or having a grown up conversation with my dh.

When we are on holiday we tend to be more lax but once they start getting moany or whiney and it’s gone 7pm then bed time because clearly over tired.

@Horst come back when your children are older

I’m not sure bedtime could get any worse tbh they are 12,10 and five so they get two options go up when I say it’s bed time or no wifi/tablets. I anit playing games no wifi also means no tv in our house at all as we are all Netflix and prime.

What a horrible post about an eight year old, @stepupandbecounted

I seriously don’t know what is wrong with you, that you’d post all that.

And any worse I don’t mean it’s a drama now I just don’t see it changing. Very much a like it or lump it situation.

[quote Nayday]@Horst come back when your children are older [/quote]
I have 3 DDs (15,14,12). In term time DD1 (15, SN) is normally in bed and settled by 8.30pm. This year I'm going to say that DD2&3 have to be settled by 10pm. I'm not insisting they sleep then (DD2 is quite insomniac at times), but they need to be quiet and in bed with electronics away.

@SpicyJalfrezi

What a horrible post about an eight year old, *@stepupandbecounted*

I seriously don’t know what is wrong with you, that you’d post all that.

Which 8 year old are you talking about? Clearly the girl in Stepup's post is not 8!

@BrightYellowDaffodil

3 breakfasts parenting sounds insufferable.

Yet another ex-colleague (oh, I've worked with some really, erm interesting people...) told me she gives her child a menu and if, halfway through a dish, they decided they didn't want it, she'd make something else. So it would seem that three breakfasts concept isn't entirely uncommon.

All joking aside, I do genuinely wonder how these children cope when they grow up and leave the insulated parent-protection bubble to find that the world doesn't actually revolve around them. It must be a helluva nasty shock.

I've make my 5 year old a breakfast menu (with choices that I'm happy to make obvs, not extensive!). She has autism and needs a visual sometimes to help make a decision (from limited choices, too much choice and she can't manage!). Things like this can be really useful for NT children too - especially fussy eaters - giving them a limited choice to choose from and making them feel like they're in control, when in reality you're in control because you only put on there what you're happy for them to have.

It works really, really well. But if she chooses 'weetabix' then weetabix she gets and nothing else!