To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

A holiday is supposed to be for everyone! Day time fun activities with the children, they go to bed tired and happy. Post cocktail hour is adult time for drinks, dinner and talking.

A balance of everyones needs makes for a happy family and memorable holidays. My dc stay up a few nights but not every night, as we went some time to ourselves. We want some kind of life/marriage and relationship left once they have flown the nest, and prioritise time together.

100% with you OP. My kids know that if they are quiet upstairs they can get away with staying up a bit but if they come down during grown up time there will be trouble. And you know what? They sleep really well. I know so many families who have real problems with getting their kids to bed and I think this attitude is part of it.
I always find it amazing when my kids have friends for a sleepover, mine have gone to sleep at say 10pm and then the friend is roaming and looking for an adult to entertain them. When they realise that I’m not going to play that game they all magically nod off, despite their parents insisting they can’t get their kids to sleep at home.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

You do need to get to know students on an emotional level.

Are you a teacher @Greenmarmalade ??
I have 9 periods a day, 35 minutes long and usually 25-30 pupils. I have a subject to teach. Care to tell me how I am supposed to get to know all the pupils 'an emotional level'. 🤣🤣

I always laugh when I see comments like You do need to get to know students on an emotional level. people seem to focus on primary age where you're stuck with the same group all day and don't realise that a secondary teacher can see up to 200+ in a week, often for 40 minutes.

Yes my almost 5 year old goes to bed at 7. It’s 7.30/8 for a treat if we’re on holiday. Children need their sleep and she’s a grumpy dick the next day if she goes to bed late. And I need my evening.

We’re absolutely zero tolerance on bullshit at bedtime unless they’re ill.

Think a lot of my friends think we’re harsh but our kids aren’t running around until 10pm or thrashing around in our bed half the night 🤷‍♀️

@TolkiensFallow

Dear god. All these people letting their kids stay up all hours! 8:30 to me is letting them stay up a bit late because it’s the holidays. My 4 year old is put to bed at 7 on the dot and if she messes about she’s in trouble. Throughout primary school we will gradually extend it to 7:30 then 8 I’m term time. 8:30 is a treat for a holiday.

Stand your ground OP. You’re doing a great job.

I agree, so weird to read some of these comments, especially those that don't take into account that all children are different.

8.30 is not 'so early' for children of 8 and under. Some children genuinely struggle to go to bed later as it ruins the next day, particularly if they are early risers.

When my SD was 5 she would actually struggle to stay awake until 8 o'clock, and she'd often be almost falling asleep at the table if dinner ended up delayed so we were eating after 7pm.

My OH always lets them stay up late with us and the effects are very visible the next day. I have seen my SS11 fighting to keep his eyes open in the middle of the afternoon when watching a film because of the knock-on effect of unusually late nights and paired with the standard early morning waking.

Some kids just need early nights. Others don't need as much sleep but that surely doesn't mean that they get to sit up all evening with the adults?

@Watapalava

Valerie

My point is all the other kids have been sent to bed early on holiday. The 8 yo cant sleep and is awake on their own. Most parents i know would let kids stay up late and entertain themselves (even if upstairs so out of the way).

Not all kids go to bed so early and on holiday its a bit crap for them. OP can see its not working so why not change tactic and just let them stay up togther.

8pm is so early!

The op never said 8pm. It was alwsys 8:30 and last night they agreed 9pm. That's late enough for an 8 year old child.

@drspouse

I was kicked off a gentle parenting FB group for recommending the "vanishing chair" method for toddler bedtime, I was told it was "trauma based" and "abusive". As an adoptive parent, I found it quite insulting to have them define trauma like this.

Please tell me more! What is vanishing chair?

@Janaih

I left the gentle parenting group after seeing a long post about how proud they are of their 7 year olds creative use of language when swearing. Followed by many comments giving examples of their own foul mouthed darling's profanities. I feel for teachers today I really do.

I'm on a gentle parenting group to be nosey and they all seem to have 7-9 month olds which is pretty dull. Shame

8 yr old are not all tired that early

The strict bedtime rule is the problem

This one clearly is tired, otherwise she wouldn't sleep late in the mornings.

It doesn't actually matter whether the kids are tired or not, it is about boundaries and allowing for parents to enjoy some downtime, and not having to parent 247. I love my kids, but I also love a glass of wine to relax and watch adult films and and talk without having to be careful.

I find the roaming kids all night lazy parenting. They can't be bothered generally to put routines and time for wind down, generally not caring very much what their children are watching, listening to and doing, it is far easier to let them run about than it is to quietly explain night after night, that good sleep is essential to a healthy life and placing children in the bath, and teaching good hygiene with teeth etc before reading the child a bed time story at a reasonable time is actually very good for them although time consuming, and sets them up for a life of good sleep patterns and stable home life.

I feel very sorry for the children left to roam all evening, it must be fun for the first night or two, and then they must just crave sleep, care and a good routine.

@CantChatNow

100% with you OP. My kids know that if they are quiet upstairs they can get away with staying up a bit but if they come down during grown up time there will be trouble. And you know what? They sleep really well. I know so many families who have real problems with getting their kids to bed and I think this attitude is part of it. I always find it amazing when my kids have friends for a sleepover, mine have gone to sleep at say 10pm and then the friend is roaming and looking for an adult to entertain them. When they realise that I’m not going to play that game they all magically nod off, despite their parents insisting they can’t get their kids to sleep at home.

Of course.

@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh why has this thread touched a nerve with you? And you haven't answered how you'd feel if it was you in the situation?

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal

You can spot the introverts on this thread, I'd be miserable if I'd gone on holiday expecting at least a little time in the evening gossiping with a good friend, and instead had to spend it "chilling out alone in my room." And I'd very quickly get resentful that I was having to go to bed early like I was a naughty child.

@PyongyangKipperbang, you may take it with my blessing! Since acquiring a large, bitey cat that everyone is terrified of and I treat like a giant fluffy baby, I'm more of a Nanny Ogg anyway.

Perhaps I'm guilty of Gentle Parenting the cat?

I often tell the cat it'll be made into slippers. I'm not tolerating any nonsense. I'll surfboard that furry bastard inside

Can't the non sleepy kid just read a book or something

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh why has this thread touched a nerve with you? And you haven't answered how you'd feel if it was you in the situation?[/quote]
I have.
Your comprehension skills aren't so great either.
I said I have no real solutions and I'd feel irritated obviously.
But she's 8.
They're annoying at 8.
As we all were... except nobody here was ever irritating, nobody is anything but a master parent who doesn't tolerate any bullshit and apparently other parents are in awe of because they get kids to do stuff their parents can't.

@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh 8 is not a challenging age at all, 5-10 is a joy with well behaved children, but my children do as they're told and they sure as hell go to bed when told.

I hope you had a good catch up last night with your friend!

[quote namechange7865]@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh 8 is not a challenging age at all, 5-10 is a joy with well behaved children, but my children do as they're told and they sure as hell go to bed when told.[/quote]
Of course. You're a genius parent like everyone else. I'm sure you are an inspiration to your friends.
They're like.... see that parent... she's my hero.

As we all were... except nobody here was ever irritating, nobody is anything but a master parent who doesn't tolerate any bullshit and apparently other parents are in awe of because they get kids to do stuff their parents can't.

Yes that's exactly what's been said 😂😂
Sorry that no one gives a shit about your kids I guess for some it's a hard pill to swallow

*What is vanishing chair?!
Start with chair by cot/bed. Pat and sshh/rub back.
Then move a little away etc etc. Very gradual - so it might take a week till the starting point is not where you can touch them.
Repeat "back in bed" when they get out, but ideally you are going so slowly they don't.
We still need chair on the landing for DS sometimes but he has quite major SEN. DD was an awful toddler and I think we did months and months of this.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

As we all were... except nobody here was ever irritating, nobody is anything but a master parent who doesn't tolerate any bullshit and apparently other parents are in awe of because they get kids to do stuff their parents can't.

Yes that's exactly what's been said 😂😂
Sorry that no one gives a shit about your kids I guess for some it's a hard pill to swallow

Some wait until adulthood to be irritating I guess.

We had a lovely night thank you, though I will NOT be re-booking. Our parenting styles are just too different. Example, one thing of 100 every day: DS this morning asked for Cornflakes for breakfast. I made him cornflakes. Then he stared at them and said "actually I want coco pops". I said no as we don't waste food, cornflakes is what he asked for and cornflakes is what he has to have. My friend's DD had 3 different things for breakfast because she pulled the same stunt and my friend just made her something new. So it's "but Lucy got a new breakfast why can't I". Which kind of points out the massive obvious difference in our parenting. And I have to say "Lucy isn't my child!" Which doesn't really wash with a 5yo!

@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh nah I've always been irritating

@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh good grief your PA posts are boring! Do you even have a point as to why you're still here having a tantrum? I feel like your parents took the gentle parent route