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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

999 replies

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 25/08/2021 23:42

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

OP posts:
SameToo · 27/08/2021 07:42

Pm

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 27/08/2021 07:42

You can spot the introverts on this thread, I'd be miserable if I'd gone on holiday expecting at least a little time in the evening gossiping with a good friend, and instead had to spend it "chilling out alone in my room." And I'd very quickly get resentful that I was having to go to bed early like I was a naughty child.

@PyongyangKipperbang, you may take it with my blessing! Since acquiring a large, bitey cat that everyone is terrified of and I treat like a giant fluffy baby, I'm more of a Nanny Ogg anyway.

Perhaps I'm guilty of Gentle Parenting the cat? Shock

Ellarain · 27/08/2021 07:53

Oh how I have enjoyed reading your posts op. Nothing worse than other people's children. I would be a firm parent and sometimes do feel a bit shitty compared to some of my friends who like to sit down and chat and tell me how you feel. I actually stopped visiting one friend altogether because of her obnoxious 11 year old. She would literally sit at the table with us the whole time and would interrupt and give her opinion on whatever we were discussing. She would also bring up totally inappropriate conversations about how much her uncle drinks and how badly behaved her cousins were.. Ha. I would be seething the whole time I sat there. Friend never once told her to leave the table as it was adult talk. I would never allow my children to sit with my friends when they come over for a catch up. Another friend is looking like she might be getting the elbow soon. I allowed her to bring her son to mine one evening for a bbq as she was let down with childcare. Like other friends child he kept interrupting and was a rude insolent little toad. My the end of the night I hated him. Friend now keeps saying I must drop down and bring Paul with as he had such a great time in your house!!!!Sorry for the rant lol. Hope you enjoy what's left of your holiday op.

LookItsMeAgain · 27/08/2021 07:56

I do hope you managed to get that hour without the little dahling making an appearance again.
I'd have to ask the friend if her dahling daughter was having such a melt down why did the laughing that was going on end up waking your daughter who was asleep in the next room. Wouldn't be much of a melt down with giggling and laughing.
I'd say to all of the kids that I'm cross and very disappointed in them because they get to have both of you during the day but in the evening, it's grown-up time and they have to go to be and STAY THERE.
Finally, if you were using bribes of them staying in their rooms with the reward of going somewhere nice today, I'd have to shelve that idea pretty damn quick and I'd be explaining why.
Then let all of the kids have a go at Alyssa giving her grief as to why they can't do X and it's because of her and her shenanigans. Why can't she just go to bed and stay there without having to have her mummy there for hours. I tell you, sometimes you need peer pressure to get you past the finish line. I'm suggesting the kind of discussion among the kids like they would have if a whole class detention was being applied in school because the perpetrator of some messing wouldn't own up.
But I'd be at the end of my tether before doing that...are you at the end of yours @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop?

skodadoda · 27/08/2021 07:59

@Greenmarmalade

I think she's he friend of the PP who complained the teacher didn't get to know her DD on an emotional level 🤣

You do need to get to know students on an emotional level.

I think your friend will be stressed out under the pressure of your bedtime rules. Her daughter is clearly different to your children and they’ve been brought up differently. Your attitude is cruel and unsympathetic.

Change your expectations of the evenings and enjoy them alone chilling in your room. Leave your friend to parent her child.

Oh dear 😒
Original poster
FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 27/08/2021 08:06

@Watapalava

Valerie

My point is all the other kids have been sent to bed early on holiday. The 8 yo cant sleep and is awake on their own. Most parents i know would let kids stay up late and entertain themselves (even if upstairs so out of the way).

Not all kids go to bed so early and on holiday its a bit crap for them. OP can see its not working so why not change tactic and just let them stay up togther.

8pm is so early!

They're not being sent to bed 'early'. How is 8.30/9pm early for 5yo's?!

A good nights sleep is healthy especially for children and reduces the risk of grumpiness the next day

OP posts:
Original poster
FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 27/08/2021 08:07

Kids are back at school in a week, I need to start getting back into the normal bedtime routine.

@Watapalava what time would you say is reasonable to send primary children to bed in the holidays?

OP posts:
Original poster
FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 27/08/2021 08:09

@Ellarain

Oh how I have enjoyed reading your posts op. Nothing worse than other people's children. I would be a firm parent and sometimes do feel a bit shitty compared to some of my friends who like to sit down and chat and tell me how you feel. I actually stopped visiting one friend altogether because of her obnoxious 11 year old. She would literally sit at the table with us the whole time and would interrupt and give her opinion on whatever we were discussing. She would also bring up totally inappropriate conversations about how much her uncle drinks and how badly behaved her cousins were.. Ha. I would be seething the whole time I sat there. Friend never once told her to leave the table as it was adult talk. I would never allow my children to sit with my friends when they come over for a catch up. Another friend is looking like she might be getting the elbow soon. I allowed her to bring her son to mine one evening for a bbq as she was let down with childcare. Like other friends child he kept interrupting and was a rude insolent little toad. My the end of the night I hated him. Friend now keeps saying I must drop down and bring Paul with as he had such a great time in your house!!!!Sorry for the rant lol. Hope you enjoy what's left of your holiday op.
God that sounds infuriating!!

I think next year I will go with my friend who's also a single parent, I often go to hers for wine evenings and take the kids, our strict rule is "you play upstairs, and ONLY come into the living room if you're dying or on fire" Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 27/08/2021 08:13

You do need to get to know students on an emotional level.

Are you a teacher @Greenmarmalade ??
I have 9 periods a day, 35 minutes long and usually 25-30 pupils. I have a subject to teach. Care to tell me how I am supposed to get to know all the pupils 'an emotional level'. 🤣🤣

OP posts:
ThumbWitchesAbroad · 27/08/2021 08:19

""you play upstairs, and ONLY come into the living room if you're dying or on fire" Grin"

Oh I like this, I shall use it on my 8yo.

Arrowheart · 27/08/2021 08:24

There is no fucking way I'd be playing Dobble and having to listen to kids tv programmes until 11pm. Your friend and her daughter are beyond rude. I'd be getting up early and making as much noise as I could to be inconsiderate to that obnoxious child. What a brat.

Moulesvinrouge1 · 27/08/2021 08:25

@CornishTiger

Please don’t dismiss gentle parenting as parenting without boundaries.
Agree with this. Gentle parenting is based on decent boundaries, but also on treating the child has an actual person not to be bellowed at constantly, and recognising that they are a kid who is still learning.
JudyGemstone · 27/08/2021 08:38

Hope you had some proper boozy gossipy adult time last night OP!

And hopefully it won’t take so long to get Alyssa to bed tonight!

drspouse · 27/08/2021 08:43

I was kicked off a gentle parenting FB group for recommending the "vanishing chair" method for toddler bedtime, I was told it was "trauma based" and "abusive". As an adoptive parent, I found it quite insulting to have them define trauma like this.

GrandmaSteglitszch · 27/08/2021 08:44

I guess Alyssa has no books or audiobooks for after she's in bed?
Maybe buy her a book and give it to her (sternly)?
It's obvious, tho, that your friend lets the child dictate at home so there's not much chance of that changing on holiday.

I hope you had a good evening, in the end.

GrandmaSteglitszch · 27/08/2021 08:46

Definitely crash around after the other kids are awake and talk loudly with them.

LittleMysSister · 27/08/2021 08:47

God, you are a better person than me, I would have stayed in bed last night! I hope your friend apologised for leaving you so long when she finally came down.

Lougle · 27/08/2021 08:57

That's not gentle parenting, it's just effective parenting. I'm not a gentle parent. I'm a parent who knows my children and I adjust my parenting style to meet each child's needs. DD1 (15) has SN. She needs short, simple explanations and instructions. Too many words just confuse her. She needs "Not now; later." DD2 (14) has ASD. She needs clear, unequivocal explanations. Metaphors, sarcasm, etc., go right over her head. I say 'I can't do that because....' DD3 (12) is very challenging at the moment and thinks (thanks to English lessons about 'persuasive arguments') that if she argues enough, I'll change my mind. I'm using 'No, because....' then 'No means no.' Then 'Enough. I've said no, it means no, and I don't want to hear any more about it.'

Lotusmonster · 27/08/2021 09:01

Please don’t re-book for next year.

Janaih · 27/08/2021 09:10

I left the gentle parenting group after seeing a long post about how proud they are of their 7 year olds creative use of language when swearing. Followed by many comments giving examples of their own foul mouthed darling's profanities. I feel for teachers today I really do.

ChargingBuck · 27/08/2021 09:12

@Watapalava

Valerie

My point is all the other kids have been sent to bed early on holiday. The 8 yo cant sleep and is awake on their own. Most parents i know would let kids stay up late and entertain themselves (even if upstairs so out of the way).

Not all kids go to bed so early and on holiday its a bit crap for them. OP can see its not working so why not change tactic and just let them stay up togther.

8pm is so early!

Your point is wrong. OP's kids, & Alyssa's younger sibling, have been sent to bed at bedtime. The 8 year old can't sleep because she is allowed to come downstairs & dictate the evening's events to her own pleasure.

Why do you want the other 3 kids to have to stay up & dance to Alyssa's tune as well? The fact that your kids would be up later is immaterial - OP isn't on holiday with your kids, she's on holiday with her own, who go to bed at 8pm. How would encouraging them to go to bed later help her get want she is longing for - a child-free evening?

thecatsabsentcojones · 27/08/2021 09:21

That sounds like one hell of a holiday.

Parenting attitudes are really interesting, so the boomer generation often had the last lot of Victorian parenting which was extreme, and now the pendulum has swung right the other way in some instances, with a seeming lack of any boundaries at all. I do wonder how these parents see the future unfolding for their kids. They’ll no doubt wind it in for the workplace but I wonder about their marriage prospects! Not being able to compromise and always having things your way make for an anxious, lacking in resilience adult.

I have a friend who is very similar. Staying anywhere with her has been challenging because her son is very definitely in charge. It’s been a factor in the end of her marriage. Ironically now she’s a single parent she’s getting harder with him because she doesn’t have the emotional resources to be quite so endlessly pleasant!

pansypotter123 · 27/08/2021 09:25

Has friend emerged today? I'd be tempted to tell her you were making your own plans for the remainder of your stay during the evening, time to take back control!

mam0918 · 27/08/2021 09:35

@SmidgenofaPigeon

Yeah it’s the indulging her in cartoons and Dobble that’s the problem, if she ‘can’t sleep’ she should just stay in bed and read a book. Of course kids ‘can’t sleep’ if they can get up to have a night of TV and games without their siblings around.
This... bad behavior is being rewarded.

I had medical incomnia as a child due to side effects of my medication, I was still made to lie in the dark and 'try' to go to sleep.

There has to be some boundries and after bedtime is parents time (unless there is a legit issue like a child is genuinely sick).

TolkiensFallow · 27/08/2021 09:46

Dear god. All these people letting their kids stay up all hours! 8:30 to me is letting them stay up a bit late because it’s the holidays. My 4 year old is put to bed at 7 on the dot and if she messes about she’s in trouble. Throughout primary school we will gradually extend it to 7:30 then 8 I’m term time. 8:30 is a treat for a holiday.

Stand your ground OP. You’re doing a great job.