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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

999 replies

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 25/08/2021 23:42

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

OP posts:
GoogleWhacked · 27/08/2021 00:28

Hope you're both still up and on the 2nd bottle of wine WineSmile

ThinWomansBrain · 27/08/2021 00:36

so how long did the wonderchild stay in bed OP?

Greenmarmalade · 27/08/2021 00:48

I think she's he friend of the PP who complained the teacher didn't get to know her DD on an emotional level 🤣

You do need to get to know students on an emotional level.

I think your friend will be stressed out under the pressure of your bedtime rules. Her daughter is clearly different to your children and they’ve been brought up differently. Your attitude is cruel and unsympathetic.

Change your expectations of the evenings and enjoy them alone chilling in your room. Leave your friend to parent her child.

Plumtree391 · 27/08/2021 00:56

Why can't the children play together during the evening without involving their parents (parents are obviously there to keep an eye on them but not join in with their playing). It is the kids' holiday too and that usually means staying up later, having fun.

hpprincess · 27/08/2021 01:04

Brilliant thread Grin

It sounds hard, have you tried to speak to your friend about why she can't get A to do as her told - guessing not since you've not alone time with her!

You should get A up super early with the rest tomorrow so she is tired come bedtime, book an early morning activity or something abs hopefully you can redeem your holiday!

Hellotoallmyfans · 27/08/2021 01:19

Cuddlyrottweiler*
I expressed concern about his aggressive behaviour towards other childrn and his swearing. She turned to the son, cracked him across the head and said You little bleeder, I'll fucking kill you if you don't learn to behave yourself. Give him a slap Miss when he's fucking misbehaving.

Hmmm, I wonder where he learnt that behaviour? I wouldn't have found that funny at all, poor kid.

DeRigueurMortis · 27/08/2021 01:26

Ahhh, the curse of "gentle parenting".....

When DS was primary school age he had a group of friends and the inevitable play dates resulted.

All lovely/fine for the most part except for one mother who would not ever say no, or discipline her son. Rather she'd want to have essentially adult conversations about being "reasonable" and "consideration" ad nauseam...

It was incredibly tedious and wearing to watch him acting out and having no consequences (apart from being negotiated into boredom by his mother) whilst simultaneously reinforcing the opposite with my own child (and I was not alone in this view).

Came to a head when we went as a group of 5 parents and children on a day out to a local attraction.

Every other bloody hour we had to stop and wait whilst she negotiated yet another 10/15 min appeasement over whatever tantrum he was having whilst the rest of the children, unsurprisingly started to misbehave (having started the day being really good and excited) because they were bored shitless waiting to see the next attraction as their friend was being pandered to.

In the end we just left her to it and went ahead without her. If we hadn't all the kids would have missed half the attractions as a result of just waiting around.

She was not impressed and basically cut us off.

Brilliant result and frankly we all wished we had been far less tolerant sooner.

Fast forward to them being adults and yes you've guessed whose children are moving forwards productively with their lives and whose still acting like an over indulged toddler....

SamMaxFrankieDuke · 27/08/2021 01:36

You have a few more nights to go. A direct conversation is what you need.

Alyssa needs to be up the same time as everyone else.

I would have text back "let's try again tomorrow"

timeisnotaline · 27/08/2021 01:39

@PyongyangKipperbang that’s pure it worked for my children so everyone else’s should be the same. My family are biological night owls and that will never change. We enforce bedtimes because sleep and habits are important but that means we walk our 6yo back to bed every 5 minutes from 8 till about 9:30. As soon as he’s responsible he can stay up later and save us the pain, I was allowed to stay up till 9 once I turned 8.

PyongyangKipperbang · 27/08/2021 01:47

I said that I am a "Do as you are told" parent, and I am.

But I have done a bit of reading and it turns out that I am also a Gentle Parent, depending on what you read. I had the typical 70's upbringing of being physically disciplined and being told "Because I say so" without any explaination. I hated it and felt angry, humiliated and not at all considered a person.

So I have always explained stuff to the kids. When I was small, about 4 or 5, I remember asking for a comic and my mother said no. I asked why and she said "Because I said so" and I was upset and asked why, I didnt tantrum I just didnt understand. Was frogmarched out and got a rright smack at home for "showing her up". I know now that she couldnt afford it (actually she could but she was as tight as a gnats chuff) but instead of saying that, she got angry. So I always said to the children that I would like to be able to get it but I only had £X and we needed to spend that on Y but that we would have a nice treat on Z day (I did/do plan in treat days even at our poorest).

Ma now says that she sees how the kids are after being told "no, because......" and wishes she had done that with me and DSis as the kids understand and then dont cry or whine as we used to. Same as mealtimes/bedtimes etc. I will always explain the reasons behind everything, but the rules still stand.

Its a gentle way to parent but to keep boundaries in place. GP is not about never saying no ffs! I think that actually most parents are gentle, but the ineffectual "Oh please dont put a knife in Mummy's face darling, its not nice is it? Oh well ok, just once more but then we really should put it down and play Dobble shouldnt we?" parents have co-opted it to justify their utter uselessness.

PyongyangKipperbang · 27/08/2021 01:55

[quote timeisnotaline]@PyongyangKipperbang that’s pure it worked for my children so everyone else’s should be the same. My family are biological night owls and that will never change. We enforce bedtimes because sleep and habits are important but that means we walk our 6yo back to bed every 5 minutes from 8 till about 9:30. As soon as he’s responsible he can stay up later and save us the pain, I was allowed to stay up till 9 once I turned 8.[/quote]
Oh dont get me wrong, family of insomniacs. My mother used to go barmy that I was still awake when she went to bed (and thought that a smack would help.....go figure!) but the rule is that once you are in bed you stay there unless you are ill or a spider is living on your pillow! Its the indulgence of "Well you are awake so stay downstairs and do what you want" that I never did and it sounds like you dont either.

I learned this the hard way......when DD1 (second child) was 3 I realised that I had spent 4 hours EVERY NIGHT FOR SIX MONTHS lying on her bed with her until she went to sleep and if she felt me crawling off the bed and out of the room she would go insane and I had to start the whole fucking thing again.

I was going bonkers with tiredness and one night I just thought "Fuck this" and left her too it. Spent three nights at the top of the stairs going and in and tucking her back in and leaving. She was safe, just pissed off :o I wasnt doing that again.

DD2 is the same as me (and you) a night owl. So she would go to bed at an age appropriate time and sleep when she was ready. It gave her rest even if she wasnt asleep (she was allowed to read, listen to music/books but no blue light) and got through it better than I did at her age as I was told "Just go to sleep" like it was a choice!

Jux · 27/08/2021 02:00

We always had to go to our rooms and 'play quietly'. Sometimes we were sharing, in which case ghost stories were generally the order of the day. Once the noise gets too loud, an adult would appear (didn't matter much which one) and we'd all be good for a while. Eventually we'd fall asleep though we may have had a number of adult visitors telling us to keep the noise down or the lights are going off. Once lights out had occurred if we continued to be noisy then rooms would be changed and your new room mate would be one you don't like that much so not much to say to each other.....

DoWhatYouWantToAndShh · 27/08/2021 02:00

@DeRigueurMortis

Ahhh, the curse of "gentle parenting".....

When DS was primary school age he had a group of friends and the inevitable play dates resulted.

All lovely/fine for the most part except for one mother who would not ever say no, or discipline her son. Rather she'd want to have essentially adult conversations about being "reasonable" and "consideration" ad nauseam...

It was incredibly tedious and wearing to watch him acting out and having no consequences (apart from being negotiated into boredom by his mother) whilst simultaneously reinforcing the opposite with my own child (and I was not alone in this view).

Came to a head when we went as a group of 5 parents and children on a day out to a local attraction.

Every other bloody hour we had to stop and wait whilst she negotiated yet another 10/15 min appeasement over whatever tantrum he was having whilst the rest of the children, unsurprisingly started to misbehave (having started the day being really good and excited) because they were bored shitless waiting to see the next attraction as their friend was being pandered to.

In the end we just left her to it and went ahead without her. If we hadn't all the kids would have missed half the attractions as a result of just waiting around.

She was not impressed and basically cut us off.

Brilliant result and frankly we all wished we had been far less tolerant sooner.

Fast forward to them being adults and yes you've guessed whose children are moving forwards productively with their lives and whose still acting like an over indulged toddler....

Is it hers? Oh wait. It's of course yours. Well done.
PyongyangKipperbang · 27/08/2021 02:10

Now come on @DoWhatYouWantToAndShh, we are not using our kind words are we? You remember when we talked about beind kind to people? Well can you do that now? Would you try? Please? I would be ever so proud of you if you did :)

DeRigueurMortis · 27/08/2021 02:30

@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh

😂😂😂

DoWhatYouWantToAndShh · 27/08/2021 02:32

@PyongyangKipperbang

Now come on *@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh*, we are not using our kind words are we? You remember when we talked about beind kind to people? Well can you do that now? Would you try? Please? I would be ever so proud of you if you did :)
Always the rudest self-proclaimed master parents and the like who tell others to be kind. 🏅🏆
DeRigueurMortis · 27/08/2021 02:33

@PyongyangKipperbang

Now come on *@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh*, we are not using our kind words are we? You remember when we talked about beind kind to people? Well can you do that now? Would you try? Please? I would be ever so proud of you if you did :)

😄

JackieChiles · 27/08/2021 02:38

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

Yes it’s wonderful for them blah blah, but if we’re being honest it can also be extremely tedious, having evenings devoted to the minutiae of a partner you’ve never met. Even more so as friend is presumably single. Just wondering if the friend is actually using the daughter as an avoidance technique.

She is divorced from DC's dad but has a (lovely) partner of 2.5 years

I wondered about avoidance too...

I so disagree. As someone who has been happily married for 20 years I LOVE living vicariously through the details of a friend’s exciting new relationship. I wouldn’t trade my DH for anything but that initial lovey period is intoxicating. And if my friend is someone who has been abused ans cheated on and managed to find someone wonderful I love that even more.

Obviously if said friend showed no interest in my life and only talked about herself and her boyfriend every night for the entire trip that might start to get boring, but I like OP and I really don’t think she’s that person.

drspouse · 27/08/2021 02:38

My ADHDer has had an awful summer, his bedtime is shot and we were out late the last couple of nights. Nevertheless, we have been sitting outside his room in the holiday cottage when he won't settle and telling him the bedside light needs to be off to stop the moths coming in. There has been no Danger Mouse downstairs. I got my book read and we got an hour's TV and wine 👍

Valeriekat · 27/08/2021 02:49

@whatapalaver

"That’s because child is on their own! Op needs to lighten up"

There are 3 other children there including her own sister. Did you read any of the thread?

PyongyangKipperbang · 27/08/2021 02:56

@DoWhatYouWantToAndShh

So you didnt read about my massive fail that I posted earlier in the thread that led to my learning a valuable parenting lesson? Okie Dokie.....

Do what you want to and shh sweetie :)

PyongyangKipperbang · 27/08/2021 02:57

No really..... SSHHHHH!!!!!

stepupandbecounted · 27/08/2021 07:04

Good Morning Op! So that was not a complete disaster in the sense your friend at least tried to do the right thing, and you at least did not have to endure another night of Dobble and Horrid Henry :)

On the downside the Alyssa show was in full swing with doormat parent all evening upstairs by the sounds of it, so hardly a fun holiday night...I would be making alternative arrangements for this evening, and write off any kind of adult angle of the holiday. Next time maybe consider a spa hotel for adults and leave them all at home?

Feeling sorry for your dc being woken up. That would make me really cross, as now they are going to be tired. Keep them downstairs for the rest of the stay, so Alyssa doesn't wreck revenge - and I am pretty sure she will given half the chance.

Watapalava · 27/08/2021 07:16

Valerie

My point is all the other kids have been sent to bed early on holiday. The 8 yo cant sleep and is awake on their own. Most parents i know would let kids stay up late and entertain themselves (even if upstairs so out of the way).

Not all kids go to bed so early and on holiday its a bit crap for them. OP can see its not working so why not change tactic and just let them stay up togther.

8pm is so early!

Sadiecow · 27/08/2021 07:29

@Watapalava

Valerie

My point is all the other kids have been sent to bed early on holiday. The 8 yo cant sleep and is awake on their own. Most parents i know would let kids stay up late and entertain themselves (even if upstairs so out of the way).

Not all kids go to bed so early and on holiday its a bit crap for them. OP can see its not working so why not change tactic and just let them stay up togther.

8pm is so early!

Presumably because it doesn't work for the other 3? They're obviously early to bed so early to rise?

If the 8 year old can't sleep, she can read etc in bed.

The 8.30 bed tone is working for the vast majority, the adults agreed that, so the 8 year old is going to have to fit in.

Maybe, if the 8 year old was made to get up at the same time on the morning, then the bed time would not be an issue.

She clearly needs the amount of hours sleep, but wants to do it at a different time.

Which doesn't suit the rest of the party.

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