To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

Now is late I get that but 8:30 is way too early for anyone over 5 when on holiday

Both my DC were asleep in bed by 8pm until they were in secondary school. Possibly slightly later on holiday, but not by much.

Also, she isn't obliged to go to sleep, just to stay in bed and be quiet. Count sheep, make up silly food combinations, think about the day you've had, make up a story in your head, think about the exciting things you're doing later, etc.

8pm at 11/12? Are you serious? Dd 12 is out til 9pm midweek in summer

Poor kids

@Watapalava

8pm at 11/12? Are you serious? Dd 12 is out til 9pm midweek in summer

Poor kids

You're just not using your teacher voice. Give them a slap? Carry them like a cat does with kittens? Brief swipe? All great alpha parent suggestions

@Watapalava she's had all day doing what she wants, some people may love being surrounded by kids constantly, some people do not. OP had talked with friend about holiday expectations and they clearly agreed on adult only evenings. If friend didn't want that then she should have said.

Kid is perfectly capable of staying upstairs if she's not tired. When her playing woke another kid they didn't go join in, they came down to complain and went to sleep somewhere else. So it doesn't sound like any of the other kids are struggling with having a different bedtime to the adults.

@eddiemairswife

Alyssa needs her bottom slapped.

I doubt that will help anything.

@Watapalava

8pm at 11/12? Are you serious? Dd 12 is out til 9pm midweek in summer

Poor kids

Good for her/you. Am delighted that works so well for you.

Meanwhile, my kids don’t need your pity. DS still favours an early night, his older sister stays up later than I do.

I wouldn’t be expecting the kids to go to sleep. Just to piss off upstairs out of the way. When we’re with friends, we don’t see our kids for dust! They’re upstairs out the way entertaining each other. Weird that she wants to hang round with adults. Op I don’t blame you she sounds insufferable.

Also, your 12yo is still wondering the streets at 9pm on a weeknight?! Is that what you meant?

8pm is fine for an 8 yo! DD probably goes to sleep later during the summer because of the light, but when I can I get her into bed by 8. I don't care if she reads or whatever after that, as long as she doesn't come downstairs or get out of bed (much).

I think that's a perfectly OK expectation for an 8 yo. In the holidays she'll be up by 7-ish, and during the school term she is usually conked out until 8am! (We live v close to school so it's a quick morning routine - 8-8:30 she shoves her clothes on, breakfast and brush teeth and out!)

My 11 year old has just gone to bed. However he doesnt get to dictate games or what's on tv all evening.

I have done something very passive aggressive and now feeling a bit silly. I left my friend's full wine glass on the coffee table on its own to be found in the morning

Sounds fair play to me. You are pissed off. You have a right to be pissed off. Leaving the glass out one way of showing you are pissed off.

I doubt you will pull the holiday back on track now but I think you would be justified in telling your friend frankly that this holiday has fallen below expectations and you don't think you will be repeating the experience

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

I remember from another forum, a mum who literally could not understand when her son started school, that the teacher did not have time to explain everything to him, individually. I don't mean schoolwork, I mean instructions given in the classroom. The teacher was supposed to explain, as mummy did, why he needed to take out x book, or sit in x place. She genuinely didn't get it.

It doesn't end in primary school

This year a parent told me I had to convince her 14yo DS that he has to sit in his allocated seat and not with his mates. "All it takes is a little convincing and he might do it". No he will do it or he will do the lesson during lunchtime

Sounds like my SIL, she was furious not to know of some school event, she hadn't seen the note in her 5 year old's bag, she was going to phone the school to insist that on Monday morning all, 32, bags were checked by the teacher for forgotten notes! Her mother, a retired teacher, said Your stupidity never fails to amaze me, why can't you ckeck the one bag on Sunday?

'8.30 is fine. My time is important too. They have their time in the day, bedtime is our time and I'm sure they will cope not getting their way for once'

YES!

They don't have to go to sleep at half 8, just piss off out of the way. Surely a 9 year old can entertain themselves by reading or playing Fortnite or whatever it is 9 year olds do these days.

'FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop
I remember from another forum, a mum who literally could not understand when her son started school, that the teacher did not have time to explain everything to him, individually. I don't mean schoolwork, I mean instructions given in the classroom. The teacher was supposed to explain, as mummy did, why he needed to take out x book, or sit in x place. She genuinely didn't get it.'

There's a child who's never heard 'because I say so'

@Cherrysoup

Too right in raising my voice at a rude 5yo screaming at her mother about a plate. How else would you expect me to treat her? Give her a round of applause? Ask politely not to do that?

I’m totally with you, OP. I too teach secondary and honestly, I have told off students for the way they speak to their parents at Parents’ Evening, for example. I am not going to sit there and allow the child to be downright rude to their parents in front of me.

I recall a Parents' Evening in a military Primary school, one couple were talking to me and it was obvious that he may be a Sgt but she wore the pants, or in this case the kilt! I expressed concern about his aggressive behaviour towards other childrn and his swearing. She turned to the son, cracked him across the head and said You little bleeder, I'll fucking kill you if you don't learn to behave yourself. Give him a slap Miss when he's fucking misbehaving.

I expressed concern about his aggressive behaviour towards other childrn and his swearing. She turned to the son, cracked him across the head and said You little bleeder, I'll fucking kill you if you don't learn to behave yourself. Give him a slap Miss when he's fucking misbehaving.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Cuddlyrottweiler

I expressed concern about his aggressive behaviour towards other childrn and his swearing. She turned to the son, cracked him across the head and said You little bleeder, I'll fucking kill you if you don't learn to behave yourself. Give him a slap Miss when he's fucking misbehaving.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm not sure she meant it as a joke. More like an example of where kiddo learned to behave like shit

@Watapalava Just let kids stay up with a strict upstairs rule if needs be

Well that's kinda the whole fucking point of the thread isn't it, that the useless friend can't get her annoying kid to stay upstairs on her own! If the friend could be strict, or even just basic parent, it wouldn't be an issue.

Over the years I've learnt to only go on holiday with friends and kids with a similar parenting style to your own, I have been in this situation op and it's no one fault really your friend has the right to parent how she wants (even if her kids of overindulged) But the dynamics just don't work when you spend more than a few hours at a time together so holidays or even just weekends away really cause friction. I'm still good friends with the ones I can't holiday with, I just know how little time I can spend with their offspring.

@BastardMonkfish

'FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop I remember from another forum, a mum who literally could not understand when her son started school, that the teacher did not have time to explain everything to him, individually. I don't mean schoolwork, I mean instructions given in the classroom. The teacher was supposed to explain, as mummy did, why he needed to take out x book, or sit in x place. She genuinely didn't get it.'

There's a child who's never heard 'because I say so'

Also hasn't heard 'I'm not asking you, I'm telling you' or 'This isn't the UN, you don't have a vote, just do as you're told'.

Intersting reading this thread that 'gentle parenting' seems to be going out of fashion and not before time, it was always a large part, 6/7, of 'neglect'.

@WimpoleHat

Can you take your kids out for breakfast or something in the morning? “Oh sorry - but I knew Alyssa went to bed so late and we didn’t want to disturb her. Shame - as we had such fun at x…”

Oh good idea. The OP should let them have ice cream or chocolate for breakfast to really annoy Alyssa!!

Was away last week with my DD and DSis.

Now I have had to be a "Do as you are told" parent as I have 6 children. DD is 10 and the only one young enough to come away (or indeed want to) with me. Sis and I let her stay up as long as she wanted to and played games with her, except that thanks to having an enforced bedtime her whole life (as her siblings had) she was flagging by half nine and fast asleep by 10 at the absolute latest. Most nights it was half nine and asleep. I wouldnt have considered 8.30 to be early when she was 8. She goes up at 8.30 on school nights and listens to audio books for a bit until she sleeps and gets up at about half 7/8 o'clock in the morning.

With a good sleep routine kids perfom better at school as they are well rested as opposed to being dragged out of bed when they are still tired. They are physically and mentally healthier. And the indulging of a child like this will do them no favours whatsoever. By year 3 a peer of eldest DD (now 23) was complaining of being bullied when in fact it was just that no one wanted to play with her as she was spoiled demanding and jealous. She was moved 5 times in her senior school years (I know this as her mother told me) due to "victimization" by teachers.

I really do feel for her because she is like that as a direct result of her mothers lack of parenting.

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal Best user name EVER! And I may steal it for the next Discworld Monthly quiz :o

It sounds typical of holiday with a bunch of kids - there’s always one that rocks the boat for a million different reasons. Parents are not always helping the situation or coping well either.
Hope you and your friend have a better chat tonight and don’t let this mess up your close friendship. Maybe do coffee catch ups after the holiday