To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

I remember from another forum, a mum who literally could not understand when her son started school, that the teacher did not have time to explain everything to him, individually. I don't mean schoolwork, I mean instructions given in the classroom. The teacher was supposed to explain, as mummy did, why he needed to take out x book, or sit in x place. She genuinely didn't get it.

It doesn't end in primary school

This year a parent told me I had to convince her 14yo DS that he has to sit in his allocated seat and not with his mates. "All it takes is a little convincing and he might do it". No he will do it or he will do the lesson during lunchtime

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal

Oh *@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop*, I so relate to the Scary Mum voice and taking no nonsense!

We had a kid round for a play date a couple of weeks ago, and when his mum arrived to collect him he didn't want to leave. Perfectly understandable, but instead of saying briskly "great you've had so much fun, but we need to go, so thank you and get your shoes on - NOW", she sat down on the floor with him to "problem solve". Twenty minutes later, negotiations are still continuing, and eventually I had to kick them both out because we had places to be!

"Gentle parenting" has a lot to answer for, I swear. Hope she gets the message and you get some adult time tonight.

Haha I'm a gentle parent... until I've asked twice. Then I'm Miss Trunchball

@sunglassesonthetable

I once carried my tantrumming DD out of a play date tucked under one arm, like some sort of screaming surfboard. Thankfully I only ever had to do that once.

I literally love you. 🤣

I honestly can't believe people don't do this?

What, they hang around in someone else's house waiting for the child to comply?

Tell her child that if she gets up tonight, you will fetch your two children into the room too as it’s very unfair that she is getting to enjoy late nights.

I’m willing to bet she will stay in bed rather than risk your two getting the chance of the treat of late night fun.

Please do this If the child doesn't have any developmental delays or other conditions then you would be unreasonable to loudly Google at what age the average child should be able to settle themselves in bed and ask aloud at what other developmental stages or activities or events they are below 'average'?

Looking forward to your update OP and I really hope you get your adults only evening.

It sounds from your recent post that Alyssa is used to ruling the roost at home, and that mum is almost in awe of her and can’t bear to say no to her. Which is not the child’s fault but makes for a stressful joint holiday - you’re coping with it a lot better than I would! (I would have been so tempted to make passive aggressive comments along the lines of ‘yes but you’re no good at doing as you’re told, are you, Alyssa?’ or ‘yes but all the other children here are so much better at going to bed nicely than you are, aren’t they Alyssa?’ when she came out with her I’m the best at everything shite..)

If Alyssa makes her usual appearance tonight (which let’s face it, she’s almost certainly going to do) I would absolutely be saying “sorry, I’m not in the mood for Dobble tonight so I’ll leave you two to it and head to bed”. And then definitely take the wine with you. And rinse and repeat for your last two nights if it looks as if the same thing is going to happen.

Yanbu
Child sounds hideous

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

I remember from another forum, a mum who literally could not understand when her son started school, that the teacher did not have time to explain everything to him, individually. I don't mean schoolwork, I mean instructions given in the classroom. The teacher was supposed to explain, as mummy did, why he needed to take out x book, or sit in x place. She genuinely didn't get it.

It doesn't end in primary school

This year a parent told me I had to convince her 14yo DS that he has to sit in his allocated seat and not with his mates. "All it takes is a little convincing and he might do it". No he will do it or he will do the lesson during lunchtime

I see your "All it takes is a little convincing" and raise you an ex-colleague who once told me "I wrote a letter of complaint to the school because DD's teacher hasn't taken the time to connect with her emotionally. How on earth can the teacher expect DD to engage in their classes when they haven't put in the effort?"

I nearly pulled a muscle trying to keep a straight face at her outrage.

Haha I'm a gentle parent... until I've asked twice. Then I'm Miss Trunchball

I'm the same with the hulking brutes I worked with in homeless hostels and prisons. Once or twice, nice. Any more, not nice. Mum voice works on ganstas as well as little children BTW. My nickname was Mary Fucking Poppins at one shelter as a result. As in; Terry's Mary Poppins until she isn't.

Mum voice is built in.

Hope you get your childfree evening op!
I'm amazed she's just going on with it...
If that was me I'd be feeling guilty and trying to keep her out of your way even if I ended up in the bedroom while you watched TV 🙈

I have actually only got one other family who I will go away on holiday with. And we're related, were raised like siblings and raise our children very similarly to each other. Some small differences but nothing annoying, we're generally on the same page regarding manners, behaviour, bedtimes etc (our children are preschool and young primary age). So we don't rub each other up the wrong way or get offended if one tells the others children off (because normally we're telling them all off - "Children! All of you that's enough!' sort of thing if we're telling off at all anyway!).

I have a fair few other friends with young families similar age and slightly (but not much) older than mine and no bloody way could you pay me to go on holiday with them. My friendship group are all much more relaxed about routines than I am (mine still go to bed around usual time on holiday, with a little flexibility, tired 5 and 3 year olds are no fun for anyone at any time!) but they are all happy to let theirs run around until they drop at about midnight and over hear adult conversation (incl swearing) and drinking which I don't like. I did two nights with them all when we went for a weekend away and that was enough for me. Not only that but mine were constantly woken by the others, and like you OP I was moaned at when mine still woke at 7am. Tough luck!

I hope you get your adult night tonight OP. As you've now mentioned it to your friend if clothe child gets up again tonight and isn't sent back to bed I would tell your friend that as you said you needed some downtime and you're off to bed. Or go and sit outside with a glass of wine and your iPad etc. It's not on really but when you've got two different parenting styles it's never going to work, sadly. You'll know for next time, not that that's any consolation now!

I don't agree with people saying other people's relationships are boring. I love hearing about my friends' relationships. But then I also like hearing about their children, and their new houses and jobs.

I can't imagine being friendly with someone so lacking in self awareness that they would imagine their friend would be happy for one child to remain up and dominating proceedings for the precious adult only portion of the day.

It wouldn't have been tolerated for one evening for me or any of my friends.
Not a chance.

You are a very patient woman OP.

@FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop

I remember from another forum, a mum who literally could not understand when her son started school, that the teacher did not have time to explain everything to him, individually. I don't mean schoolwork, I mean instructions given in the classroom. The teacher was supposed to explain, as mummy did, why he needed to take out x book, or sit in x place. She genuinely didn't get it.

It doesn't end in primary school

This year a parent told me I had to convince her 14yo DS that he has to sit in his allocated seat and not with his mates. "All it takes is a little convincing and he might do it". No he will do it or he will do the lesson during lunchtime

Maybe it was the same child

What amused me was, the poster was quite indignant and genuinely could not grasp that nothing much else would happen in the classroom, if the teacher had to explain and clarify every single instruction to her little cherub. Presumably while all the other children sat around, in awe I think she deleted the thread in the end.

I had to deploy my mum voice once, when ds3 and I were waiting in the playground to pick the older two up from school. He wandered off to the newly planted raised beds, and I spotted him just as he reached out to pull up a plant.

I couldn’t get to him in time, so I shouted “Stop that NOW!” - and he did stop.

So did about half the other parents and children in the playground! I was both embarrassed and strangely proud of the effect my mum voice had.

Hope it goes well tonight OP. So frustrating when you've got a good friend that parents so differently. If it doesn't work it may be time for a bit of distance...

@TopBlogger

I would have to say something like "Well that's our evening finished then - think I will head to bed!" when her DD came down at 9. No point in you staying, may as well chill in bed and MNet .

This.

Oh god, I feel for you!

My little angels were probably other peoples' nightmares when we went places because they never would go to sleep before 8:30/9pm at the earliest. And there was zero point trying it (I did, several times, not at other people's houses) because they would sleep for half an hour and then wake up again - which would result in them being awake until at least 11.

My friends were very tolerant, as I would only be staying with them for 1, max 2 nights at a time - but I wouldn't allow the kids to get up again once they were in bed (at 9pm), and certainly wouldn't allow them to hang around and impose themselves on the adult evening!

I am now having my own troubles with DS2 (aged 8 - must be something about that age!!) who is having troubles going to sleep and keeps getting up - toilet, drink, too hot, too cold, can't sleep, doesn't like his mattress, doesn't like his bed blah blah blah. I just send him back to bed with ever-increasing sternness!

Damn, sorry - meant to add:
I hope Alyssa goes to bed early enough tonight that you can have a decent chat with your friend!

Either tell the child it’s ‘grown up time now, go to bed please’ or retire early yourself and leave them to it then tell your friend how annoying it is when she keeps asking why you retire when her DD joins you!

This thread has been massively improved by the mental image of Alyssa being Alyssa Edwards, the incredibly pageant-y, loud, dance-teaching Drag Queen.

Oh god I really hope you get your childfree evening! I totally agree that children, even my own, after 8pm are unbearable. My eldest is a similar age and would probably stay up until 10pm or so on holiday. But wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in joining the grown ups, and she'd be given short shrift if she tried!

@MrsTerryPratchett

Haha I'm a gentle parent... until I've asked twice. Then I'm Miss Trunchball

I'm the same with the hulking brutes I worked with in homeless hostels and prisons. Once or twice, nice. Any more, not nice. Mum voice works on ganstas as well as little children BTW. My nickname was Mary Fucking Poppins at one shelter as a result. As in; Terry's Mary Poppins until she isn't.

Mum voice is built in.

🤣🤣🤣

OMG op i hope the rest of your holiday gets better and you get to spend some quality time with your friend.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

Oh god, I feel for you!

My little angels were probably other peoples' nightmares when we went places because they never would go to sleep before 8:30/9pm at the earliest. And there was zero point trying it (I did, several times, not at other people's houses) because they would sleep for half an hour and then wake up again - which would result in them being awake until at least 11.

My friends were very tolerant, as I would only be staying with them for 1, max 2 nights at a time - but I wouldn't allow the kids to get up again once they were in bed (at 9pm), and certainly wouldn't allow them to hang around and impose themselves on the adult evening!

I am now having my own troubles with DS2 (aged 8 - must be something about that age!!) who is having troubles going to sleep and keeps getting up - toilet, drink, too hot, too cold, can't sleep, doesn't like his mattress, doesn't like his bed blah blah blah. I just send him back to bed with ever-increasing sternness!

I think we all go through this at some point - or lots of parents do. Dd1 has had sleep issues since the start of the pandemic.

The issue for me isn’t that she is awake but how it’s been dealt with. I would put my dd back to bed with an iPad or book or something and tell them it is adult time now, not time for card games and kids tv. Especially as it’s only for a few days and a holiday.