To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

Reminds me of a saying I was told a long time ago…”Kids are like farts, your own are bearable but other people’s are disgusting and insufferable,”. This completely encapsulates exactly how I feel about other people’s kids entirely, even on a day to day basis! Here’s hoping you get your girly night tonight, minus the precocious one!

@TopBlogger

I would have to say something like "Well that's our evening finished then - think I will head to bed!" when her DD came down at 9. No point in you staying, may as well chill in bed and MNet .

Absolutely. What a bloody let down for you. I’d be fuming and not impressed at all. The kid sounds like a right pain the ass. Some people have no boundaries or awareness of how not everyone things their kids are wonderful. I certainly wouldn’t go away with her again.

My nephew was like this when my kids and him were all small. We'd all be staying at my mum's for Christmas and all my kids would be in bed, but rather than having a relaxing glass of wine and adult conversation/telly, we'd have a pre-schooler running around making noise at 10pm. Drove me mad. My brother would take him upstairs and leave him with peppa pig on the tablet in bed and be amazed that he was still awake when he went back up. I wanted to say, well yeah, my kids would still be awake if I gave them something bright and noisy to watch too!

Don't be wet. Tell her it's a problem

Going away with other people and their kids is risky if you're not all on the same page with routines, discipline etc.

We stayed at MIL's when the DC were small and were up doing their usual bedtime - stories, lying with them for a little until they settled, dark room. Then SIL comes upstairs, puts her 2 year old in his cot in the next room, leaves the main light blazing and walks straight back downstairs. He stood in his cot in the bright light screaming for over an hour while she sat downstairs. Our DC couldn't get to sleep with the noise. We made sure our visits didn't coincide after that.

@thisplaceisweird

However, listening to a blow by blow account of someone’s new relationship/ amazing new partner can be the equivalent of playing dobble...

I'm married with kids and would absolutely LOVE to hear about a friends new relationship!! Very exciting.

I wouldn't let my kids interfere with drinking wine and chatting in the first place though.

Hope it goes well tonight OP, update us!

Me too, especially as the kids haven't even met him yet so no drudgery. I don't give a shit about the reading band of my own kids let alone someone else's.

Hopefully you'll have a better night tonight. I'd be quite kind but firm if she plays up and say directly to the brat child that she's fit for nothing in the mornings because she's not going to bed early enough and that's not fair on the rest of you. So she must go to bed and stay in her room until morning.

I think you are unreasonable, OP. Your friend wants to be her DC's best friend rather than just a parent. She doesn't want the literal violence that 'no' can inflict on her DC to harm her DC. She wants everyone else to gain the benefit of her DC's wisdom at any time of day or night.

If the child doesn't have any developmental delays or other conditions then you would be unreasonable to loudly Google at what age the average child should be able to settle themselves in bed and ask aloud at what other developmental stages or activities or events they are below 'average'?

@Zilla1

I think you are unreasonable, OP. Your friend wants to be her DC's best friend rather than just a parent. She doesn't want the literal violence that 'no' can inflict on her DC to harm her DC. She wants everyone else to gain the benefit of her DC's wisdom at any time of day or night.

If the child doesn't have any developmental delays or other conditions then you would be unreasonable to loudly Google at what age the average child should be able to settle themselves in bed and ask aloud at what other developmental stages or activities or events they are below 'average'?

Eh?

@Smackthepony

OMG why do people pussy foot around children! She goes to bed at 9 and stays there. If she can’t sleep that’s her problem. She reads a book or finds something quiet to do. Why can’t you just be honest with your friend and just say that you’ve given the children their holiday time, now it’s yours and don’t want any of the children around from 9 o’clock. As kids my Mum used to tell us that when her friends came round it was her time to spend with her friends and we were not allowed in the room or to interrupt. I respected my Mums wishes. (There we’re consequences if I didn’t) I understood the rules, end of! I have a lovely relationship with my Mum as an adult.

Yeah, I used to explain to my kids that just as they wouldn't like me constantly interrupting play time with their friends, I don't like them doing the same to me. Hey presto, they pretty much left us alone for adult time unless it was an emergency.

I'd rather sleep until 9.30pm. That's quite early enough on holiday.

Having kids around in the evening is fine too but it appears in this case only one child is up and about. Usually they all are and doing their own thing.

Sounds bloody awful OP. I'd need a holiday afterwards just to get over this one!

@Zilla1

I think you are unreasonable, OP. Your friend wants to be her DC's best friend rather than just a parent. She doesn't want the literal violence that 'no' can inflict on her DC to harm her DC. She wants everyone else to gain the benefit of her DC's wisdom at any time of day or night.

If the child doesn't have any developmental delays or other conditions then you would be unreasonable to loudly Google at what age the average child should be able to settle themselves in bed and ask aloud at what other developmental stages or activities or events they are below 'average'?

Aha sorry, you are being sarcastic. I agree, ask google

Would anyone else be tempted to absolutely annihilate the 8 year old at dobble?

I would just be honest with friend and say that if her daughter is up this evening that you will be having an early night because you need to unwind.

[quote Frazzled2207]@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal
Pleased we’re on the same page here
Have always needed to somewhat embarrassingly frogmarch my own children out of play dates in the past. So rude IMO just to pussyfoot around when someone has been kind enough to mind your children[/quote]
Oh god yes I have never been the "let's convince them reasonable" type parent when we go somewhere. I mean business - we go NOW or there will be consequences.

I mean my kids will probably have therapy in 20 years but at least they will have good resilience skills

I once carried my tantrumming DD out of a play date tucked under one arm, like some sort of screaming surfboard. Thankfully I only ever had to do that once

Gosh I still have nightmares about the time I carried 3yo DD through Alicante airport under my arm like a rug, heavily pregnant with DS, and straight onto the plane like that. When we boarded the air hostess actually bent down to look at her face on the passport check

Yes it’s wonderful for them blah blah, but if we’re being honest it can also be extremely tedious, having evenings devoted to the minutiae of a partner you’ve never met. Even more so as friend is presumably single. Just wondering if the friend is actually using the daughter as an avoidance technique.

She is divorced from DC's dad but has a (lovely) partner of 2.5 years

I wondered about avoidance too...

I'm known as 'shouty aunty' to a couple of dn.
I have no patience for unreasonable stroppyness.

I don't shout, I'm just stern

And to answer PP, no she doesn't go to bed easily at home. My friend often messages me saying argh it's 10pm and Alyssa is still awake kill me now type messages

@stepupandbecounted

Op we need an update, you must absolutely promise us to come back on here and let us know how this evening pans out!!

I promise!!

If she's not in bed tonight, don't sit and indulge it. Make it clear that you need adult only time when your DC are asleep.

@FreeChuro

Would anyone else be tempted to absolutely annihilate the 8 year old at dobble?

Or invite her to play poker with absolutely no instructions. Then a follow up of “Haha! I beat you at poker!”

Or just take the wine up to your room, whatever’s easiest.

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@stepupandbecounted she's not usually too bad when we are alone if anything we will whinge about what prick challenging little things children are. She does have a deluded strange sense of how her DD is - says she's so kind and sweet and humble and not obnoxious or stroppy like other children

This will make me sound like I'm about 14 but I am in a new relationship and wanted to tell my friend all about my new boyfriend. I broke away from an unfaithful (his end, he was nearly 40 and she was a teenager) and abusive marriage 3 years ago and have basically been a nun ever since, I was so burnt from that experience. I'm now nearly 40 myself but met someone 3 months ago and now I'm like a giddy schoolgirl, I'm ridiculously happy and wanted to talk about this while the honeymoon period lasts. I can't speak about my new boyfriend in front of my kids as they don't know I'm in a relationship and I want it to stay that way for now. And obviously can't say a thing in front of Alyssa because it risks her blabbing. Hey ho. I might just have to tell Siri on the balcony instead [/quote]
Do you think it might motivate your friend to put Alyssa to bed - and make sure she stays there - if you hint that you want to tell her all about your new man, but can’t do it in front of Alyssa, @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop?

If she knows the choice is between Dobble and Horrid Henry, and a grown up gossip about a lovely new man, she might decide to be stern with Alyssa, in the hopes of juicy details.

Oh, and like you and previous posters, when I was 8, if my mum told me to do something, I did it with NO argument. Hell - I was still doing as I was told when I left home. I am a bit better now - I happily do things she would disapprove heartily of - but it does help that we are the best part of 400 miles apart.

Put on the episode of Motherland where this exact thing happens later to drop a hint