To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

NC'd for this.

On holiday in a cottage with a friend and we each have 2 kids - mine are 5 & 9 and hers are 5 & 8. I haven't seen this friend in ages as I moved away from my town a few years ago, then COVID happened so this was a great chance to catch up and ours kids are all get on very well. We said loads beforehand that we couldn't wait to talk about what's going in our lives - her with a new job and home, me in a new relationship etc. We stocked up on wine for the holiday as we said we would put the kids to bed and wile away the hours on our balcony (we've been away before and this is something of a tradition). We also wanted to catch up on the same TV show we are watching and watch new episodes together as we don't know anyone else who watches this show.

When we got here we decided 8.30 was a reasonable bedtime for the kids, and my 2 and her youngest have gone down no problem every night after busy days. But We've been here 4 nights and every single night her 8yo refuses to sleep so she brings her downstairs to spend the night with us. Meaning the dynamic COMPLETELY changes, rather than playing poker like we usually do, we have to play Dobble. And instead of watching our TV show (which wouldn't be appropriate with an 8yo around), my friend puts Horrid Henry on.

The talk is PG - no catching up the way we wanted has been done - and, at the risk of sounding nasty, her 8yo has turned into quite an obnoxious little thing. I've spent the last 4 evenings hearing from the 8yo herself about how amazing she is in school, better than all the other kids and she is 'top of the class' (I am a teacher, there is no such thing), how Isabella is rubbish at swimming and she could swim better than her when she was only 4, how she drew a better picture today than my DD, how everyone wants to be her friends and she only picks the most popular girls to be friends with and not the others etc. She also says pretty rude things like "Why do you eat your toast whole, that's a stupid way to eat it, you should cut it up". I do tell her not to be so rude and comment on what people eat.

My friend just gazes at her starry eyed, says nothing when she's rude and makes an extremely feeble effort to put her to bed. It usually starts with her tucking her in at8.30, then at about 9 her DD comes down saying she can't sleep then she takes her back upstairs, before coming back down saying like "oh dear, Alyssa wants to stay up with us, I said that's fine for a few minutes". Then at 11pm they both go up together.

AIBU to be annoyed that I'm spending my holidays nights playing a children's game, the conversation centring around how amazing a rude 8yo is and watching cartoons. It's 11.30pm now, I'm alone downstairs nursing the rest of the wine and feeling a bit sorry for myself!

To make matters worse, my friend said tonight in front of her DD "Alyssa says everyone woke her up this morning making noise so in the morning if she's still asleep everyone will have to be extra quiet". Alyssa was still in bed today at 9.30am!! My kids, us adults and my friend's youngest, are up at 7am. I'm not tiptoeing around just because she can't put her DD to bed on time! I did say well if you went to bed when your mummy told you you would be up at the same time as everyone else.

The best extended family parents we occasionally holiday with are awesome with their kids who are much younger than ours both firm but fun lots of outdoor play activities etc. Then they do early tea and their dc pretty much in their rooms from 7 so parents can recharge. The lovely mum says she is pretty much done by then and has nothing more to offer they need their grown up time too.

Good luck OP, looking forward to tonight's update

Oh I really hope you get your evening tonight. I think in your position, when the child asks to play dobble I'd just say 'sorry I need adult time tonight'. I would be so annoyed with friend if anyone did this to me.

If my child was struggling to sleep though on holiday, I would just give them instructions to stay in their room. Would never inflict them on anyone else.

Can't stand children ruling the roost ! Good luck tonight

Put audio book on kids ipad.

I would have lost it way before now and sent her back to bed

It’s not worth saying anything. There’s no way in which that conversation will go ok, friend will just think OP’s being unreasonable.

It’s 3 nights reading/watching an iPad.

Keep the friendship, but ditch her and her kids as holiday companions.

My child is the child who won't go to sleep. We had a holiday where I was massively judged on this (child was 2 at the time). She still doesn't go to bed now, but she stays in her room after 8.30pm. If she's sharing a room with other children, we tell her to be quiet until they are asleep, then she can use her head torch to read or whatever. She's 6, so this child should be able to manage it at 8.

If you're such good friends with this mother, then you need to just say outright that it's not what you wanted from this holiday.

However, listening to a blow by blow account of someone’s new relationship/ amazing new partner can be the equivalent of playing dobble...

I'm married with kids and would absolutely LOVE to hear about a friends new relationship!! Very exciting.

I wouldn't let my kids interfere with drinking wine and chatting in the first place though.

Hope it goes well tonight OP, update us!

Yes, just do your own thing snd tell your friend to come and get you once her DD is in bed

How annoying. I agree with going up yo your room as soon as child appears. No way would should thd others be quiet in the morning to let her have a lie in.

Oh @FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop, I so relate to the Scary Mum voice and taking no nonsense!

We had a kid round for a play date a couple of weeks ago, and when his mum arrived to collect him he didn't want to leave. Perfectly understandable, but instead of saying briskly "great you've had so much fun, but we need to go, so thank you and get your shoes on - NOW", she sat down on the floor with him to "problem solve". Twenty minutes later, negotiations are still continuing, and eventually I had to kick them both out because we had places to be!

"Gentle parenting" has a lot to answer for, I swear. Hope she gets the message and you get some adult time tonight.

Oh god good luck op

I'd hate this. As much as I love my friends and their children there have to he boundaries. They have all day to do stuff the kids want they shouldn't get all night too. And 8 is nore than old enough to he told to grab a book ir a sketch book and sent back to bed. It dies get annoying when seemingly what ever time.of the day or night you call or sit up to there's a child about. Like seriously do your kids ever sleep...

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal
Pleased we’re on the same page here
Have always needed to somewhat embarrassingly frogmarch my own children out of play dates in the past. So rude IMO just to pussyfoot around when someone has been kind enough to mind your children

@TatianaBis

It’s not worth saying anything. There’s no way in which that conversation will go ok, friend will just think OP’s being unreasonable.

It’s 3 nights reading/watching an iPad.

Keep the friendship, but ditch her and her kids as holiday companions.

Agree with this tbh. More than likely you’ll have to suck it up, best course of action is to take yourself off to bed with an iPad

Greebol I can totally relate. Remember previously well behaved decent kids turning into whining horrors when mum or dad appear.

Parents are being totally played their kid behaves fine when with me or a teacher telling them firmly but kindly what to do.

[quote Frazzled2207]@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal
Pleased we’re on the same page here
Have always needed to somewhat embarrassingly frogmarch my own children out of play dates in the past. So rude IMO just to pussyfoot around when someone has been kind enough to mind your children[/quote]

I once carried my tantrumming DD out of a play date tucked under one arm, like some sort of screaming surfboard. Thankfully I only ever had to do that once.

You dont say how long you have left of the holiday ,but I would be tempted to go home early! She sounds like a nightmare .People whose children are overindulged in this way, will be spoilt entitled Adults in years to come . I would just carry on as normal in the mornings . If she is rude to you I would say something like " hey Allyssa thats not very polite! I think this has run its course now anyway

When my two are hanging around in the evening I just say "Your dad and I want to watch sex and violence on the tv." They soon scarper.
They're 12 and 15.

@nettie434

However, listening to a blow by blow account of someone’s new relationship/ amazing new partner can be the equivalent of playing dobble...

It's not the equivalent of playing dobble if they are a friend and they have been through a difficult time. It's wonderful for them that things have improved. Besides the OP is entitled to go on a bit to make up for all the evenings playing dobble.

I do hope you get a chance to do this, Frangipani. The only worry is that having spent all the evenings listening to your friend's 8 year old, you might accidentally find yourself talking in the same narrative style: 'he says I am the best ever ....'

Yes it’s wonderful for them blah blah, but if we’re being honest it can also be extremely tedious, having evenings devoted to the minutiae of a partner you’ve never met. Even more so as friend is presumably single. Just wondering if the friend is actually using the daughter as an avoidance technique.

I have had this before and moaned about it to friends when then get back. Their obvious answer (like many on here have said) is 'well don't go away with them again then' - I would say the same myself to a friend.

I don't know OPs situation but for me it's either carry on going away with that friend as it ostensibly works. The kids all get on well. Everything is easier as there are 2 adults and you plan the holiday together and it's far less lonely .. or go away on my own with my DC where we don't have as much fun.

I have plenty of friends but they all go away with their nuclear families so it's really a question of judging whether overall the good outweighs the bad!

My child is the child who won't go to sleep. We had a holiday where I was massively judged on this

Why on earth are you subjecting your friends to this?! Do you hate them or something? If I had kids that don't sleep, I certainly would not be inflicting them on anyone else, I would wait until they were older and more capable of a night's sleep.

Fingers crossed that Alyssa actually follows tonight's plan and you get to catch up with your friend!

I'm a teacher too and value time without children (including my own) so would find this scenario frustrating but doubt I'd have been able to tolerate it for as much of the holiday as you have done so far especially given Horrid Henry! My eldest is nearly 17 and even though they're quite good company, share interests with a number of my friends and get invited there in their own right, if it's a joint families stay somewhere, DC1 hangs out with the adults for a bit more of the evening than the much younger children do but still makes themselves scarce early enough that we have parent-only time to relax.

Perhaps before 9pm tonight, all the children need to be reminded of the rules of Mum Time i.e. all children stay in their rooms and are quiet. If they can't get to sleep they can read a book, practise their times tables in their head, do some colouring in etc. but the mums do not want to see or hear them unless someone is so hurt that an ambulance needs to be called. If they remember something really important to tell their mum, it can be written down and saved for the morning. You could even offer prizes (an ice-cream, choice of game etc.) for children who are the best at bedtime...

I once carried my tantrumming DD out of a play date tucked under one arm, like some sort of screaming surfboard. Thankfully I only ever had to do that once.

I literally love you. 🤣

Op we need an update, you must absolutely promise us to come back on here and let us know how this evening pans out!!

The second that she allows her DC downstairs I would go upstairs for an 'early night' and leave the two of them alone. I'd rather read in my bed than play whatever Dobble is anyway.

Yes it’s wonderful for them blah blah, but if we’re being honest it can also be extremely tedious, having evenings devoted to the minutiae of a partner you’ve never met. Even more so as friend is presumably single. Just wondering if the friend is actually using the daughter as an avoidance technique.

This would be SUCH an extreme way of getting out of adult chats. Why would you even go on holiday?

If you hear hooves don't think zebras kind of thing.