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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to continue to support Extinction Rebellion

390 replies

54321nought · 24/08/2021 20:18

carrying on from the first thread

here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4327567-to-support-extinction-rebellion-more-London-action-tomorrow?msgid=110225062#110225062

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
ShinyHappySummers · 26/08/2021 10:35

[quote PalmarisLongus]@RightYesButNo

"Tell us again how XR is all rich and poor and lives where they protest, OP."

It seems obvious to me that these protesters are privileged, all of them, to a degree not everyone knows.
Millions of people have to worry about work, childcare, commutes and getting food on the table, they can't swan hundreds of miles to London to sit about wasting time in a mass and campaign for XR.

That's what it boils down too ultimately.
XR is a Brand, well publicised "Protests" are Ad Campaigns for that brand. The brand relies on people to promote the brand, some people are well meaning and care about the climate obviously.
It's all money though. They say:
"XR isn't an institution, it's a Movement"
But they have a hierarchy, they have or, the have cash flow. Some one is organising the printing of t-shirts, leaflets, stickers. Someone is being paid to print that stuff. Someone commissioned a huge pink table, someone got paid to make it.

A loose collection of like minded people wouldn't have the resources, time and contacts to organise such a huge undertaking. Someone is being paid for the PR, the Press releases, the website upkeep, the blogs, the social media posting etc.

And all that money, that is flowing upwards from the 'boots on the ground', is why they keep need the publicity events, the 'protests' the huge well advertised gatherings, they are basically ad campaigns to keep donations and money flowing into the pockets of the wealthy people at the top of the movement.

Replace XR with Microsoft... Protests with Mass Game event. Not much difference is there?[/quote]
🙄

Darker · 26/08/2021 10:35

That's quite a take, PalmarisLongus

BigGreen · 26/08/2021 10:37

FYI the Extinction Rebellion logo was created and gifted for free.

There is no Extinction Rebellion 'merchandise' - you bring your own t-shirt and print the logos on it yourself.

Yes, I'm sure money changes hands somewhere in preparing large-scale art for protests, but it is a capitalist economy so that is to be expected. It's striking that people can't imagine ways of life beyond consumerism and merchandise.

RightYesButNo · 26/08/2021 10:54

I do huge amounts of work in tbe local community. For charity, food banks during covid I delivered to those shielding, those who needed to isolate, those that couldn't get through the week. I helped run breakfast clubs in the school holidays at my sons school so that families could ensure their kids were fed, even though they were financially suffering.

Now THIS is what will change things, @Hekatestorch.

In the last thread, XR supporters invoked the suffragettes disrupting things to get the vote as a sign that disruption would bring them success. But women only got the vote because the suffragettes stopped and changed tactics when WW1 hit. They supported the homefront. They helped their communities. Then they got the vote, disruption free, after the war.

People are going to think, “Ah yes, I should definitely change my whole lifestyle because some middle class person with a graduate degree from Frome glued themselves to something so I couldn’t reach my NHS appointment.” Fuck no. (See stats on XR participants in my last comments Yes, they are middle class with graduate degrees from Frome; I’m not being funny).

But I do think, “Hey, Hekate has helped me/my child/our rec center, she’s done x/y/z, and she’s asking me to sign a petition / sent me a link to write to the MP. It wouldn’t be too hard to do that.” That’s what makes a difference. We do these things because of course we care about the environment but we want a way to help from people we know are genuine, and that if they’re already genuine about one thing, then they’re (hopefully) sending us a genuine way that we can help, too, not wasting our time.

It is truly telling that XR was founded by someone getting their degree in radical campaign “design.” Because XR seems like a lot of design, right down to “here’s the colors we’re using for this protest” (again, see my last comment), and not much else. They have statistics other NGOs have spent time and money to research, if they bother with them. No policy papers. Nothing to present to the government if they actually sat down with XR. So why would the government bother? They’re just going to wait out these protests, and maybe even hope an ambulance or two gets stopped so that the press will be even more against XR, and then they’ll meet with climate change NGOs that are doing work.

I promised myself I was done with the last thread, when OP refused to engage on any facts. She’s started a second thread so she can just do more of the same. XR can’t even get their own shite together. This is a great article, with actual research: www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/aug/04/evolution-of-extinction-rebellion-climate-emergency-protest-coronavirus-pandemic (My favorite part was how one branch of XR occupied another branch of XR in 2019 with crying and cinnamon rolls - yes, government will definitely respect that for climate change demands).
Absolutely we need to save the environment and change the climate (lower greenhouse gases). And you should support groups who actually know how to do that. XR isn’t one of them. Don’t give them a dime. Don’t give them a minute. Support anyone who needs to get to a doctor’s appointment or other important appointment around their protests.

BigGreen · 26/08/2021 11:00

XR are not supposed to be an organisation, it's a banner under which interested people can take direct action. There are plenty of other orgs producing great policy papers that the government doesn't listen to!

Hekatestorch · 26/08/2021 11:03

@RightYesButNo this OP also had a thread deleted today calling for a world wide ban on more than one child each.

No plan on how they would do this. No answer to the fact, that this usually ends in a population with a lot more men than women. No answer on how to tackle any of the many other things we can do that would reduce popukations etc.

This Op quite frankly, seems like the dosrt of XR supporter who just wants to disrput people, not solve anything. Unfortunately for XR (as I am sure some of them are decent people trying their best), the type of supporters op is, are usually the louder ones and the ones wanting more attention., so doing things like getting their tits out, or gluing themselves to trains.

I have repeatedly said XR could gain my support by making some changes. Which inducing helping the people who are, personally, negatively impacted by XR protests.

But apparently, they can't do that and it just makes me 'faux' concerned.

RightYesButNo · 26/08/2021 11:32

Also, you have to wonder what kind of change they could really make with £3.1 million (I’ve included “receipts”), so @PalmarisLongus is not that far off on them being a brand. With that kind of money, instead of using it for “disruption” (?!?!?), you could just BUY factories in China and shut them down. There are so many things they could do. And this is just from 2020. It was £1.1 million in 2019. Imagine how much they’ll earn in 2021. They don’t need you and they don’t need your money.
“Compassionate Revolution Limited”, on Companies House, which is the account with Gail Bradbrook as director that holds the money for Extinction Revolution:
s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/zpsnniSW9fKA2PzNLHbT2vN_sp4N6kSX4e1zJY-PMA8/application-pdf?

And I’m sure they have other accounts.

@Hekatestorch Thanks for the info. I’m just going to assume OP is a troll then. Because this is ridiculous.

mustlovegin · 26/08/2021 11:46

getting banks to stop investing in fossil fuel

This lot are completely insane. They should leave banks alone, do they think they are charities? We will get another banking crisis if this and all the woke madness doesn't stop.

It's time people started crowd funding for legal fees to counteract all these threats to civilisation and way of life in the UK. Fast

PalmarisLongus · 26/08/2021 11:52

@Darker

That's quite a take, PalmarisLongus
Christopher Hohn gave £50,000 to the group. Additionally, the charity he co-founded, The Children’s Investment Fund Foundation, has donated more than £150,000.

All profits from Michael Stipe’s debut solo single, ‘Your Capricious Soul’, went to the group.

In addition, last year, XR received $350,000 (£273,544.39) from the Climate Emergency Fund.

I take it that cash has been shared between the movement members has it?

Darker · 26/08/2021 12:06

I'm not sure what your point is, PalmarisLongus.

Organisations of any kind need funding. I can't see them taking money from Shell.

I'm a bit suspicious of the CIFF and their philanthropy model, but then a lot of charitable funding is less than perfect - our own National Lottery feels like a tax on the people + relies on gambling.

PalmarisLongus · 26/08/2021 12:21

@Darker

I'm not sure what your point is, PalmarisLongus.

Organisations of any kind need funding. I can't see them taking money from Shell.

I'm a bit suspicious of the CIFF and their philanthropy model, but then a lot of charitable funding is less than perfect - our own National Lottery feels like a tax on the people + relies on gambling.

My point is simple.

The people on the ground, risking jail etc may mean well and care about environmental issues.

They fund "Extinction Rebellion" by donations, t-shirt sales etc.
The people above them are making a shit ton of cash from this.
To keep their income safe, they must continue public displays, call them protests or and campaign, makes no odds.
They're done, in part, to attract more donations, more t-shirt sales. (Interesting thing about t-shirts as an aside. The XR logo isn't technically supposed to be printed in anything and sold as the designer only gave license to XR. BUUUUT... A quick search of Etsy, redbubble, teespring etc.. you can go buy them.)

People proposition XR as some grass roots movement, full of good folks who are just trying to save the world and it's not accurate.
They're a huge organisation, pushed and publicised by people making huge huge amounts of money.
As with all things of this sort...
Always Follow The Money and you'll see why this is really going on.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/15558082/extinction-rebellion-funding-stunts/

A FIRM funding eco-group Extinction Rebellion was given £3.1million last year — but blew more than £3.5million on stunts.

Compassionate Revolution Ltd, which has XR founder Gail Bradbrook as a director, landed the cash in mystery grants and donations

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/extinction-rebellion-protests-funding_uk_5da09183e4b02c9da0495bba

Ahead of the action, Andrew Medhurst – Extinction Rebellion’s finance coordinator – said he expected the protests to cost “the best part of a million pounds”.

“I hope there’s a [funding] boost in October, because I’m relying on approximately £15,000 to £20,000 a day to pay for all of this,” he told reporters at an event last week.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50087022

The press has pointed to the way it is "raking in" money from members to support its operations and Mr Medhurst says the group has raised more than £2.5m this year.

Between the beginning of March and the end of September, gifts from large donors - those giving £5,000 or more - totalled £1.2m. The list of benefactors includes the rock band Radiohead, which gave the organisation £300,000

Darker · 26/08/2021 12:29

Are you saying that no-one should be paid?

PalmarisLongus · 26/08/2021 13:14

@Darker

Are you saying that no-one should be paid?
Are you saying they are a proper centralised group with a wage bill spread over different departments? Or "XR is a movement rather than an institution, and local groups do different things."
Darker · 26/08/2021 13:35

People are treating XR as a single entity, which it isn't. I don't know about their structures other than what I've read and spoken to people about. From what I can see:

There are individuals who will turn up to things without any affiliation at all.

There are self-organised groups, often local or issue based (e.g. HS2).

There are one or more organisations which have a formal structure.

I imagine there are plenty of differences in approach and position between all of these.

Not being an insider in any way at all I can't really comment further.

mustlovegin · 26/08/2021 15:03

Are you saying that no-one should be paid?

'Be paid'? What 'job' is it exactly that they do?

cleowasmycat · 26/08/2021 17:20

This annoys me

to continue to support Extinction Rebellion
NeverDropYourMooncup · 26/08/2021 18:23

@Darker

By your response you would think XR had hijacked the ambulances and struck up camps to block access to hospitals and factories.

The events this week are widely publicised in advance, which give people a chance to find other routes to work or to their appointments.

Guy's Hospital is just across the road from London Bridge Station.

Just how do you get to it by train without, you know - using London Bridge Station?

Is there a secret 'not London Bridge Station; in London Bridge? Can't use the Tube when the tube doesn't go where you live (and it's all connected anyhow). It's not remotely reasonable to expect somebody to catch the last night bus to x destination, then catch 4 other buses and go through 3 separate diversions for planned water main works, a one way system that has been permanently gridlocked in the morning since around 1987. Especially when the train journey takes about 24 minutes.

Maybe the suggestion would be 'go to Victoria and catch a bus from there'? Ummm, apart from the bus having to go through the bits that were kitted out like a giant's tea party with humans splatted on the roads like dropped biscuits? How about 'get on a bike and cycle it'? Yeah, the needing it to be a hospital appointment generally implies that getting on a bike and cycling to a specialist hospital rather than the nearest one kind of suggests that there's probably some sort of physical issue preventing that.

Of course, where you have ambulances, XR blithely state 'they should be rerouted, not our problem'. IF there is an alternative route, that's got delivery vehicles, public transport, other emergency vehicles and everybody else who would have been going down the original route all squeezed into another especially since so many two way roads have been bollarded off into empty cycle lanes so there isn't anywhere for them to go anyhow

It's inappropriate to drive or get a cab to GSTT when there's a fantastic public transport link literally just across the road. It's entirely inappropriate to suggest to somebody that they leave for a hospital appointment that would take under half an hour to get to by train a good six and a half hours beforehand.

The only explanation for such totally tonedeaf nonsense is that when somebody thinks nothing of fucking off on a plane to be handheld in a totally culturally appropriative ceremony that the indigenous people who use Ayahuasca as part of their religious belief and practice are getting pretty pissed off about whilst getting off their tits on a hallucinogenic preparation of a plant that is well on the way to becoming extinct in the wild due to rich western cunts wanting bragging rights over the common or garden coke and skunk users at home, when that money would have gone a bloody long way to leasing an electric vehicle, never mind buying one, is that either they've fried their brain with all the vaguely plant based psychotropics they've dropped since University or that their conceit is that it's a noble thing they are doing to put people at risk.

Darker · 26/08/2021 18:29

As far as I’m aware there were a few occasions when activists disrupted public transport, but XR didn’t like it. During the big bridge takeovers the stations remained open. At least, that’s what I recall.

Buttons294749 · 26/08/2021 18:54

I got so scared today as I was on the bus and saw some blockades near Waterloo bridge which panicked me as I thought I would not be able to catch my train. If I don't catch my train my DD cannot be picked up from nursery. I have no clue what happens if I turn up majorly late.

Do XR offer to collect children of disrupted parents and take them home? (And can they bathe them too 😂😂). Just so all XR members understand.

I'm all for lobbying big business, but targeting working mothers is not the way.

Buttons294749 · 26/08/2021 18:57

@Darker

As far as I’m aware there were a few occasions when activists disrupted public transport, but XR didn’t like it. During the big bridge takeovers the stations remained open. At least, that’s what I recall.
When they took over Wloo bridge I was heavily pregnant and had to push DS in his puschair the 1 mile to work as the buses couldn't run any of the route i need (again no other possoble option) Had I collapsed or lost the baby due to over exertion I doubt any of them would care Grin as it happens the physical damage was only to me.
lannistunut · 26/08/2021 19:09

@BelleOfTheProvince

People should speak for themselves and not invoke faux concern for 'poor people' - or indeed any made up group - as a cover.

They did. A woman told you in the last thread how she had to get a payday loan due to xr.

Presumably not on here because you spent 900 messages telling her she was justified collateral damage.

She wasn't made up. Neither were several posters who had either been held up from visiting London's specialist children's hospital or were worried it was going to.

Not giving anymore fuel to this attention seeking nonsense, but had to point out how you ignored harm done to real people and think people won't notice because anyone negatively effected by xr have probably hidden this thread.

Like I am doing now.

Although they may have posted it on the thread I don't remember reading it and I do not recall replying to a person who had a payday loan? Possibly you have me confused with someone else?

Unless I have totally left my sense behind, which could have happened Confused

Merrymumoftwo · 26/08/2021 19:18

I would probably respect XR more if they tidy after they left. Yes they are not an homogeneous group but they are trying to spread one message.
During the Euros Scotland fans took over Leicester Square. They left it a tip but early next morning a group of Scotland fans pitched up and helped tidy up.
Things like this don’t help
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/animal-rebellion-buckingham-palace-victoria-memoria-b1909284.html%3famp
Another poster put it better. XR would get further getting positive stories in the media than with all this negative.
Government are not listening as previously stated they are in recess until 6th September. The financial district is not in Westminster it’s split between City of London and Canary Wharf. Many civil servants are working from home so their offices are not really occupied. So who are they targeting, the shops that are borderline going bust?
The people trying to travel on public transport that is diverted so probably no longer going near the location they need?
What is the aim of this two weeks? If it’s to get institutions and government to listen then they are in the wrong place /here at the wrong time. If it’s to highlight the climate emergency and they don’t care if anyone listens then own that.

lannistunut · 26/08/2021 19:20

@Hekatestorch

You have written a lot of misrepresentations about me in your post. In particular this is not related to anything I have posted AFAIR: How is me talking about people being negatively impacted any different to you saying its for their own good?

Where have I said anything was 'for their own good*? (by 'their' I assume you are again referring to 'poor people')

I really do object to people patronisingly talking about 'poor people' as a homogenous group, having been in that category myself for a long enough time.

Baluchistan95 · 26/08/2021 19:44

@emilylily

YANBU- it's quite literally the end of the world at stake here.

People are more bothered about being inconvenienced than about the future of the world.

Lol. "End of the world"!! A tad dramatic, don't you think?
Hekatestorch · 26/08/2021 19:44

[quote lannistunut]@Hekatestorch

You have written a lot of misrepresentations about me in your post. In particular this is not related to anything I have posted AFAIR: How is me talking about people being negatively impacted any different to you saying its for their own good?

Where have I said anything was 'for their own good*? (by 'their' I assume you are again referring to 'poor people')

I really do object to people patronisingly talking about 'poor people' as a homogenous group, having been in that category myself for a long enough time.[/quote]
XR feel it's for their own good. The view that you are supporting.

Again, I am not talking talking about them as a group. I am talking about people who have been damaged by them. XR haven't damaged ALL poor people. And actually, I haven't talked about how they ALL feel.

I have stated I don't agree with XR stopping people working, especially when it's hitting people already on the breadline. I don't like when XR stop people getting medical attention or getting to medical appointments.

I have talked about MY feelings on it. I have talked about how much harder life is, when you lose pay (for whatever reason), the impact on physical and mental health. I have talked about how people's medical appointments are needed and not attending them, makes people's lives worse. Sometimes this means missing more paid work, to get another.

At no point have I said 'poor people all think/feel'

You decided anyone who cares about these groups of people were only pretending to care to dismiss XR. Which is wholly ridiculous. If XR wasn't doing the stupid shit they were doing, I would support them. Not make up reasons to not support them.

The fact that you find my sharing my opinion, patronising is about you. Not me.