to continue to support Extinction Rebellion

[54321nought]

carrying on from the first thread

here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4327567-to-support-extinction-rebellion-more-London-action-tomorrow?msgid=110225062#110225062

I work in the area, and I'm pretty sure I earn less than most theatre workers

I think you would be surprised.

i had to walk around the block to get to the tube, to get home. Errr, that's it. That's the level of the disruption I faced.

In which case they weren't causing any disruption then.

I haven't heard any of my neighbours in the local area complain. A surprising number were sporting XR stickers by the end of the day, which surprised me.

You live and work close to the west end, you wouldn't need the tube then?

And of course they were. Biodegradable stickers?

Football fans that cause disruption are dickheads.....no one is arguing in favour of them or suggesting XR are the only people who disrupt London.

But it appears this group weren't causing disruption, I thought that was XRs 'thing'.

Its good to hear they weren't.

If it's true, that a large amount of people were wearing their stickers, doesn't that show that by not making peoples lives harder, they get more support? And also that they can make their point without making peoples lives harder?

Win win.

@Darker

Do those of you who object to XR think the threat from climate change is not real? Or that it’s not very serious or urgent?

I think that question just shows your prejudice and it's obviously a loaded question. Where's the other alternative? None of those is the answer.

I think it's a very serious situation and am trying to do my bit to reduce my impact on the environment. I'm no eco warrior and my lifestyle is hardly radical, but I will up my efforts as and when I can.

I also think XR are a load of idiots and that their way of doing things will achieve nothing good for the environment and climate change. If anything they make people like me turn off from the whole issue. That's not a good thing.

@Xenia

XR picked the nicest middle of summer time and near a bank holiday to have some kind of posh people's jolly on Oxford St disrupting small and big businesses alike because it does not care about people's need to feed themselves or get to work.

Yes this.

Cheaper than than a festival ticket, I guess.

Do those of you who object to XR think the threat from climate change is not real? Or that it’s not very serious or urgent?

How does stopping working class people get to work or hospital appointments, and delaying ambulances, tackle climate change?

XR are blocking roads (creating more traffic pollution as a result) during a pandemic. There are several large hospitals in central London. How many ambulances will be delayed by XR?

XR don't care about climate change. They've said nothing about the millions of non essential international journeys to and from the UK over the last 18 months. Of all the times to talk about rationing flights, you'd think a pandemic would be the ideal time. Yet not a peep from XR.

(Not everyone wants rationed flights, I know, but XR say they want 'something done'...

@sst1234

By the way, they are not protesting, they are just sunbathing and having a good time out in central London because the weather is nice. It’s all ridiculously shallow and obvious.

Yes - the topless lady for example. Born with natural boobs but had them filled with plastic. Just why?

And the group of chained to some plastic block while eating a picnic, drinking from single-use plastic bottles.

Dangerous hypocrites all of them.

Were you hoping starting a second thread would yield some more support for you @54321nought ?

Epic fail.

The vast majority on here disagree with you. No amount of threads about the hideous Extinction Rebellion is going to change that!

You want to know what XR could do that I'd actually support? How about actually targeting the polluters directly? Hit them where it hurts. The top 100 polluter list is packed full of oil giants. So blockade the refineries and other oil terminals. Not just one of them, hit the lot in one go. It worked for the lorry drivers in 2000.

The only real achievement XR has to its name so far is supplying the government with popular support for the Policing Bill. They've gone for the wrong targets, hitting ordinary nobodies on public transport. That was never going to get any action from the government.

XR is a movement rather than an institution, and local groups do different things.

I went by Oxford Circus yesterday and there were people who were focused on HS2 and others looking to protect peat, and others focused on getting banks to stop investing in fossil fuel.

No litter that I could see.

No disruption to the tube or pedestrians.

I personally don't believe many of the posters on here care as much about 'poor people' (patronising, much?) as they are claiming, this is just a way to derail.

The Tory party themselves cite 'poor people' when opposing policies they don't like too, it is a fig leaf imo.

'Poor people' are not a homogenous lump and no one on here can speak for anyone but themselves.

Yes, I have experienced poverty under the government definitions of our country. I can speak only for myself. 'poor people' hold a wide variety of views.

@Darker

XR is a movement rather than an institution, and local groups do different things.

I went by Oxford Circus yesterday and there were people who were focused on HS2 and others looking to protect peat, and others focused on getting banks to stop investing in fossil fuel.

No litter that I could see.

No disruption to the tube or pedestrians.

That's great to hear. Its great that they can meet their aims like that. They will get far more support if they do. I would like to see them turn it around.

@lannistunut

I personally don't believe many of the posters on here care as much about 'poor people' (patronising, much?) as they are claiming, this is just a way to derail.

The Tory party themselves cite 'poor people' when opposing policies they don't like too, it is a fig leaf imo.

'Poor people' are not a homogenous lump and no one on here can speak for anyone but themselves.

Yes, I have experienced poverty under the government definitions of our country. I can speak only for myself. 'poor people' hold a wide variety of views.

I get that, I mean that's only the same as I think of XR and its supporters.

They don't really care about the environment. They just like a bit of anarchy. When it's pointed out the damage they do, they can say 'but climate crisis' and make themselves morally superior. They don't actually think about the people they are damaging. Until its brought up to them later.

It like moral superiority on top of their privilege and they can pretend to be heroes.

No one said poor people all think the same, though. I have been desperately poor at certain times in my life. I am very aware people all think differently. Not really sure who said they all think the same.

@DdraigGoch

You want to know what XR could do that I'd actually support? How about actually targeting the polluters directly? Hit them where it hurts. The top 100 polluter list is packed full of oil giants. So blockade the refineries and other oil terminals. Not just one of them, hit the lot in one go. It worked for the lorry drivers in 2000.

The only real achievement XR has to its name so far is supplying the government with popular support for the Policing Bill. They've gone for the wrong targets, hitting ordinary nobodies on public transport. That was never going to get any action from the government.

They do blockade refineries and target the oil giants:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/terminal-blocked-extinction-rebellion-protest-b1857619.html%3famp - this was only in June this year!

www.google.com/amp/s/www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/272929/extinction-rebellion-manure-bp-aberdeen/amp/

www.euronews.com/2020/08/28/extinction-rebellion-protest-outside-london-hq-of-oil-giant-shell

They have occupied oil rigs: www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-51008524.amp

Whether they could do them all at once effectively, I don't know. I suspect they don't have the numbers, unlike lorry drivers (who of course also had easy access to large numbers of large vehicles).

@Hekatestorch

You've claimed to speak for 'poor people' and 'vulnerable people' all the ways through the two threads - you don't speak for them. You have no idea what 'they' think - you are projecting your views onto a group of strangers.

You are doing the same with XR themselves, you have no idea that 'they' think either. You have no idea who 'they' are or what is motivating 'them'.

I am tired of people claiming to care about 'poor people' - and I am sick of the phrase 'poor people' too. When I was a 'poor person' I can tell you I thought exactly the same as I do now I am no longer a 'poor person' and I didn't need someone on the internet partonisingly saying what I wanted or didn't want for the future of the planet vs. getting to my (low paid, insecure) job.

People should speak for themselves and not invoke faux concern for 'poor people' - or indeed any made up group - as a cover.

End of rant.

I get that, I mean that's only the same as I think of XR and its supporters. They don't really care about the environment. They just like a bit of anarchy. When it's pointed out the damage they do, they can say 'but climate crisis' and make themselves morally superior. They don't actually think about the people they are damaging. Until its brought up to them later .It like moral superiority on top of their privilege and they can pretend to be heroes.

Of course they care about the environment, that is why they are giving up their resources, time and personal freedom, it isn't fun

Of course they are not privileged. They are a complete cross section of society, rich. poor, all different back grounds and life experiences. Calling someone "privileged" has just become a way of trying to block out their message, without actually having any counter arguments.

Trying to make this about "morals" is also silly, it is about a war with against a lethal enemy, which will destroy our species and our world

Pretend to be heroes? What is your definition of a hero, exactly?

They don't really care about the environment. They just like a bit of anarchy. When it's pointed out the damage they do, they can say 'but climate crisis' and make themselves morally superior. They don't actually think about the people they are damaging. Until its brought up to them later.

Where do you get this from? ‘They’ are a diverse group of people united only by a call to action to do something about the climate crisis. Their motivations will vary widely.

I personally don't believe many of the posters on here care as much about 'poor people' (patronising, much?) as they are claiming, this is just a way to derail.

I am "poor people" I care very much.

Some XR members are privileged and some XR members are not privileged. Being privileged is no more something someone can control than being one of the 'poor people'.

One thing to note is if they are privileged, they will not be impacted by climate change as much as the average Brit.

I am not privileged. I am going to be badly impacted by the climate crisis here in the UK and so are my children. I am already noticing that in my area, there are lovely houses that those who are cash buyers can pick up cheaply because of the flood risks and impacts on mortgages. This means a significant percentage of homes are not available to me to buy or rent and pushes prices up in the non-flood areas even higher.

Where do you think will get the flood alleviation investment? Hmm, might it be wealthy areas of the South-East, while those who live in shitter housing are left to get wet?

If they are only doing it because they are privileged, I don't get why they are bothering - they can just move and avoid the problem! I can't though.

People should speak for themselves and not invoke faux concern for 'poor people' - or indeed any made up group - as a cover.

They did. A woman told you in the last thread how she had to get a payday loan due to xr.

Presumably not on here because you spent 900 messages telling her she was justified collateral damage.

She wasn't made up. Neither were several posters who had either been held up from visiting London's specialist children's hospital or were worried it was going to.

Not giving anymore fuel to this attention seeking nonsense, but had to point out how you ignored harm done to real people and think people won't notice because anyone negatively effected by xr have probably hidden this thread.

Like I am doing now.

YABU. They are a pack of worthless virtue signallers who have deluded themselves into believing they are achieving something (altho' I'm not sure what, exactly).

Of course they are not privileged. They are a complete cross section of society, rich. poor, all different back grounds and life experiences. Calling someone "privileged" has just become a way of trying to block out their message, without actually having any counter arguments.

When are people going to STOP engaging with this, OP? She says whatever the hell she feels like with nothing to back it up.

Here’s the truth from people who did actual research, maybe that’s a thing XR should try. Wait no, they leave that to NGOs like Greenpeace (who I don’t even support!) but then occupy their offices (XR’s very first action ever - brilliant, attack those who are trying to do the work and demand they use what they’ve developed (their email list) for you; it was disgusting and SHAMEFUL).
www.aston.ac.uk/latest-news/extinction-rebellions-activists-more-likely-be-new-protesting-study-shows
So here are the numbers since OP refuses to engage with that link:
85% had a university degree
1/3rd had a graduate degree
2/3rds identify as middle class
3/4ths of those charged live below the Severn Wash line
1/3rd of those charged who appeared in court were from the West Country hot spots where OP claims they don’t live - Stroud, Totnes, and Frome
Only 6% (of those charged) were from “were from Birmingham, Greater Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Swansea and Cardiff combined”

Tell us again how XR is all rich and poor and lives where they protest, OP.

Honestly. The best thing you can do is: make the differences YOU want for climate change, ignore this OP, ignore XR, engage with NGOs that use their money to do actual fucking research that sways governments, not just provide a “campaign messaging packet” to tell everyone what colors to use on their signs, like XR.
And since OP brought Greenpeace up (last thread), let’s compare:
A Greenpeace report on fires that add to climate change: www.greenpeace.org/static/planet4-international-stateless/2020/04/86b5fe06-greenpeace_underfire_artwork_pages.pdf
And…
What Extinction Rebellion makes: drive.google.com/file/d/1kH4bNT1g35KySpUpHSSf4NLQ9C68SgnU/view?1

"No litter that I could see" - well in 2019 an MP says they left 120 tons of litter which cost £50,000 to clear up which is taken from council tax payers locally plenty of whom are in social housing working full time. They swan in from Devon, drink from plastic bottles, dump the rubbish and then leave having got some good photos for their "Insta" near the pink table.

[quote lannistunut]@Hekatestorch

You've claimed to speak for 'poor people' and 'vulnerable people' all the ways through the two threads - you don't speak for them. You have no idea what 'they' think - you are projecting your views onto a group of strangers.

You are doing the same with XR themselves, you have no idea that 'they' think either. You have no idea who 'they' are or what is motivating 'them'.

I am tired of people claiming to care about 'poor people' - and I am sick of the phrase 'poor people' too. When I was a 'poor person' I can tell you I thought exactly the same as I do now I am no longer a 'poor person' and I didn't need someone on the internet partonisingly saying what I wanted or didn't want for the future of the planet vs. getting to my (low paid, insecure) job.

People should speak for themselves and not invoke faux concern for 'poor people' - or indeed any made up group - as a cover.

End of rant.[/quote]
I haven't claimed to speak for poor at all. I have spoken about people being impacted. I can guess that people with no spare money each month are very much impacted. I can imagine, as the mother of a child with autism and the daughter of a disabled elderly woman, that not getting to appointments is really awful.

I no more speak for all poor people than you speak for all XR supporters.

Up until recently, I was 'poor people'. As in, fled an abusive marriage and slept on a corner couch with my kids for 9 months at my friend's homes. Was a single parent, living wage to wage with absolutely no wiggle room in my finances at all. Trying to balance a disabled child, a older teen and my job.

I grew in a single parent house, with a mother who was one of the ones that went to bed with no food so we could eat. Went to bed when we did, so she could try and keep warm without the heating.

Its not faux concern. It knowing that I have, fairly recently, been in that position. And no one gives a shit. And as long as those groups are being damaged, every one turns a blind eye. Had I not have had the immense of my employer coming across my CV, meeting me and liking Me, I would still be in that position. Doesn't mean I have just forgot what my life was like a couple of years ago.

I do huge amounts of work in tbe local community. For charity, food banks during covid I delivered to those shielding, those who needed to isolate, those that couldn't get through the week. I helped run breakfast clubs in the school holidays at my sons school so that families could ensure their kids were fed, even though they were financially suffering.

Personally, I think the "but it's for their own good' is bollocks. XR just didn't think about the consequences. So wrapped up in their 'aren't we great' and people are just making excuses for them, because they think they are this generations heroes and don't want to face up to the fact, that they are not.

How is me talking about people being negatively impacted any different to you saying its for their own good?

You need to really look at the assumptions, you make about other posters.

XR have had no discernible impact on govt policy.
They are well-meaning hippies and also a core of disruptive hypocrites who are alienating the majority of the general public who we need to persuade to change behaviour.
They are not helping the fight against climate change.

@RightYesButNo

"Tell us again how XR is all rich and poor and lives where they protest, OP."

It seems obvious to me that these protesters are privileged, all of them, to a degree not everyone knows.
Millions of people have to worry about work, childcare, commutes and getting food on the table, they can't swan hundreds of miles to London to sit about wasting time in a mass and campaign for XR.

That's what it boils down too ultimately.
XR is a Brand, well publicised "Protests" are Ad Campaigns for that brand. The brand relies on people to promote the brand, some people are well meaning and care about the climate obviously.
It's all money though. They say:
"XR isn't an institution, it's a Movement"
But they have a hierarchy, they have or, the have cash flow. Some one is organising the printing of t-shirts, leaflets, stickers. Someone is being paid to print that stuff. Someone commissioned a huge pink table, someone got paid to make it.

A loose collection of like minded people wouldn't have the resources, time and contacts to organise such a huge undertaking. Someone is being paid for the PR, the Press releases, the website upkeep, the blogs, the social media posting etc.

And all that money, that is flowing upwards from the 'boots on the ground', is why they keep need the publicity events, the 'protests' the huge well advertised gatherings, they are basically ad campaigns to keep donations and money flowing into the pockets of the wealthy people at the top of the movement.

Replace XR with Microsoft... Protests with Mass Game event. Not much difference is there?

@Darker

Do those of you who object to XR think the threat from climate change is not real? Or that it’s not very serious or urgent?

Right?!