Emergency spiritual help needed!

[GrrrlPwr]

We are moving house. This house has a 'presence'. It is not a happy presence. And we would rather not move house with it!

Have already had a priest round to bless the house which helped.

But it's still not gone. The presence not the priest. He went after a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Removal men commented they could 'feel' the presence too.

So. Any ideas?

Any leaving the house ceremony type thing from another culture we could borrow?

We are white British Christian background. So open to any ideas! Thanks

@GrrrlPwr

Could you please define your experiences that directly led you to believe in a "presence" in the house. What do you see, hear, smell, feel, etc.?

I suppose for "EMERGENCY help" in these matters, you need to dial 666 instead of 999?

@XDownwiththissortofthingX it’s not only unreasonable to call those with faith ‘whacko’, it’s actually provably and empirically wrong. I’m assuming you are using the term ‘whacko’ as a pejorative synonymous with crazy, but are you aware that having faith makes you statistically less susceptible to mental illness?

Here is study on depression and faith:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426191/

And here is another on mental health/spirituality:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705681/

It is interesting to note it doesn’t specifically matter which tradition you find your faith in, simply that it exists. However this a growing body of evidence of the overall psychological benefits of faith across a population. (Fewer suicides, assistance in managing addictions, quicker resolution of severe episodes like depression). Now it is true there are a few faith based manias and such, but much like a good vaccine to the body whilst there will be a few negative side effects there is wider benefits to an overall population’s psychological health.

Now I am curious how you’ll respond to this. I wonder if upon reading this you will roll back your position on those with faith being ‘whacko’ believing so being rational, upon the production of scientific evidence of the contrary (it would show pretty strong commitment to the scientific/rational worldview you espouse. Perhaps you will scurry off and try to produce studies suggesting the obverse, maybe even trying to attack the methodology of the studies I have linked (it’s ok I have more, I just posted a few for the sake of brevity). Perhaps you will endeavour some semantic, linguistic sleight-of-hand to uncouple the term whacko, from actual mental health issues, when it is that precise etymological connotation that lends the word it’s pejorative power. Or perhaps you feel too boxed into a corner to respond at all?

In short I’m not making a truth claim about which religion is “true” or “right”, I am merely claiming faith itself has an empirical, measurable utility to humanity, and it actually strengthens our sanity and mental health, so calling those who have it whacko is actually inaccurate.

hi try sprinkling some holy water and saying go home please

Well stated @Dervel.

@Dervel

Ahem...
by the www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705681/ you probably mean pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16924349/, because the first has been retracted as it is plagiarised from the second.

As the first article points out, it is not clear if it is the beliefs or the community in religion that improve mental health (when it does).

A good research project would compare religious engagement with non-religious community engagement. From a cursory read of either review, I don't get the impression that the studies do that.
It is possible to skew the research to demonstrate what you already believe in.

I speak as someone who was raised within a religion and values the sense of community and the spirituality and appreciates how prayer/meditation can work (probably not in the same way that most people who pray think it does or want it to). But I never appreciated the woo part of it, and from what I can tell the vast majority of so called miracles can be explained through physical means, or are just highly embellished stories told through generations, or are statistical flukes.

@Ibelieveinghosts says There is no right or wrong here just perspectives.

But either:

Ghosts exist.

Or:

Ghosts do not exist.

These positions are not affected by my or your “perspective”, “journey” or “pathway.” One of them is empirically true, and it makes the other empirically false.

You are welcome to believe in things because “I just do” but it doesn’t get us very far in ascertaining what is and what isn’t true. Everything is not true just because you think it is.

Nobody owns or controls white sage. What a ridiculous notion. Use it if you like.

A list of money prizes for evidence of paranormal.

All unclaimed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

[quote MasterBeth]**@Ibelieveinghosts* says There is no right or wrong here just perspectives.*

But either:

Ghosts exist.

Or:

Ghosts do not exist.

These positions are not affected by my or your “perspective”, “journey” or “pathway.” One of them is empirically true, and it makes the other empirically false.

You are welcome to believe in things because “I just do” but it doesn’t get us very far in ascertaining what is and what isn’t true. Everything is not true just because you think it is.[/quote]
But what is truth? You will probably think it’s something that can be proved with scientific method,in my world truth is rather more subjective. Different strokes for different folks

I’ve never understood (or cared much) why anyone else cares what I believe.

I probably only meet outspoken atheists and surely there are some who are more quite in their non-belief, but the ones who aren’t seem pretty upset by the idea that someone else believes in something. And boy do they have to talk about it! Everyone must know what they (don’t) believe. I find them similar to those always talking about their religion. Neither interested in conversation; all just want to force their (non) beliefs on everyone else. All judging anyone who have different beliefs.

All the vocal atheists I know were raised in some domineering religion and are very angry about their upbringing.

I think agnostics seem less angry and more intelligent.

Sorry, @ibelieveinghosts, but this is, at best, disingenuous:

But what is truth? You will probably think it’s something that can be proved with scientific method,in my world truth is rather more subjective. Different strokes for different folks

Either ghosts exist or they don’t exist.

Whether or not this is proven to our satisfaction, it is still true.

If ghosts exist and I don’t believe in them, they still exist.

If ghosts don’t exist and you do believe in them, they still don’t exist.

There is an objective reality, independent of your beliefs. You appear to be saying that the rules of the universe only apply when you want them to.

@GraceTheCat

I’ve never understood (or cared much) why anyone else cares what I believe.

I probably only meet outspoken atheists and surely there are some who are more quite in their non-belief, but the ones who aren’t seem pretty upset by the idea that someone else believes in something. And boy do they have to talk about it! Everyone must know what they (don’t) believe. I find them similar to those always talking about their religion. Neither interested in conversation; all just want to force their (non) beliefs on everyone else. All judging anyone who have different beliefs.

All the vocal atheists I know were raised in some domineering religion and are very angry about their upbringing.

I think agnostics seem less angry and more intelligent.

You seem pretty upset about it.

For the most part, vocal atheists are angry at the damage inflicted by beliefs.
It's not only religion. The idea that it's all a matter of perspective can also kill people.
Medical care is not just a matter of perspective. And mobile phones work or don't work regardless of perspective. You can't get Internet to post on MN because you believe in it.

@MasterBeth

Sorry, *@ibelieveinghosts*, but this is, at best, disingenuous:

But what is truth? You will probably think it’s something that can be proved with scientific method,in my world truth is rather more subjective. Different strokes for different folks

Either ghosts exist or they don’t exist.

Whether or not this is proven to our satisfaction, it is still true.

If ghosts exist and I don’t believe in them, they still exist.

If ghosts don’t exist and you do believe in them, they still don’t exist.

There is an objective reality, independent of your beliefs. You appear to be saying that the rules of the universe only apply when you want them to.

Well you think there is an objective reality I don’t, no matter how many times you keep saying it it doesn’t accord with my world view. As soon as we interpret this world it becomes subjective. I believe you believe there is an objective truth,that doesn’t mean I have to believe it.

OK, you hadn’t said that in so many words and I couldn’t believe anyone would hold such a belief in all seriousness.

Your perception of a rock or a cat is more real than an actual rock or a cat? And if you think a cat is a dog, or a rock is a feather, or there’s no such thing as gravity or light or mass, then it is so?

So, do ghosts exist or not? Do trees exist? Do I exist?

Er, didn’t Op come on here with a request for assistance?

I don’t recall her asking for a critique of her views or beliefs.

@Totallydefeated

Er, didn’t Op come on here with a request for assistance?

I don’t recall her asking for a critique of her views or beliefs.

Oh that won't stop 'em once they are on their soap boxes, all determined to be the one lasting standing.

Edit. Last One Standing.

@ToffeeNotCoffee

Well, I suppose they have little enough to do these days, they can fanny about on this nonsense instead.

I really did laugh out load and I'm now after shock laughing.

This made the Shake and vac comments and honey not made by bees even funnier.

Offer it milk. Would semi skimmed be ok ? And some sweets. Like miniature heroes that sort of thing ? What if it's lactose intolerant.

I roared at this. Miniature heroes.

@Lweji

For the most part, vocal atheists are angry at the damage inflicted by beliefs. It's not only religion. The idea that it's all a matter of perspective can also kill people. Medical care is not just a matter of perspective. And mobile phones work or don't work regardless of perspective. You can't get Internet to post on MN because you believe in it.

Well the doctor who told my dad there was nothing to be done 20 years ago, was this medical truth or perspective- when we said no and went for a second opinion was this any more medical truth or just opinion/perspective ? What is the truth in this situation, when does perspective become truth?

Does this post exist outside of your mind? Are you posting on the internet? What is that? Does that post exist until it reaches someone’s screen, does it exist if no one reads it. The more people’s perspectives tie up the closet we get to an objective truth. If everyone’s operating system broke would this post exist? If the entire worldwide web stopped working would this post still exist if it were no longer visible?

@MasterBeth

OK, you hadn’t said that in so many words and I couldn’t believe anyone would hold such a belief in all seriousness.

Your perception of a rock or a cat is more real than an actual rock or a cat? And if you think a cat is a dog, or a rock is a feather, or there’s no such thing as gravity or light or mass, then it is so?

So, do ghosts exist or not? Do trees exist? Do I exist?

Well at least you’re now asking pertinent questions 😁💙

Does this post exist outside of your mind?

Yes.

@Totallydefeated

Er, didn’t Op come on here with a request for assistance?

I don’t recall her asking for a critique of her views or beliefs.

Er, how is this assisting the OP?