To hate formula feeding?

[Dustypinks]

It’s not meant to be a BF vs FF thread. It’s just how I personally feel.

I hate the fact I’ve no easy, quick way of comforting my baby. I hate the fact that if I give him a bottle and he won’t go to sleep I have to wait hours until he’s hungry enough to accept another one. I hate worrying about his teeth. I hate the cost!

I know it suits some people and I’m not trying to suggest they are wrong. I personally hate it though.

Women basically get shit on whatever they do regarding feeding their baby, though I have to admit as someone who has breastfed, formula fed, combo fed, pumped and triple fed, the messaging was overwhelmingly to continue bf at all costs because formula was an inferior alternative and the bare minimum: I should want and strive to give my baby ‘the best’ regardless of the cost to my own health, sanity and wellbeing.

People need to back off ultimately and understand there is no universal ‘best’, it depends on each mother baby pair. Initiatives like promoting bf really don’t help as they set people up to believe one option is preferable and then feel ashamed and guilty if it doesn’t work for them. I’d love to see messaging change to ‘fed is best’ and people receive support to achieve their feeding goals whatever they are.

I do think the tide is turning though.

@elliejjtiny

I think when people say that women physically not being able to breastfeed is really rare they forget that breastfeeding involves skill from 2 people. Lots of babies can't breastfeed at all or find it difficult. Many babies can't breastfeed well enough to get enough milk to grow and thrive. However when people go on about how it's really rare to not have enough milk, the fact that not all babies can breastfeed is rarely mentioned.

Absolutely. I’ve had friends be really criticised for their latch by HCPs because they had flat nipples and baby was on the smaller side so just couldn’t physically get a good chunk of breast in! Ended up using shields for a while but were really made to feel like shit for failing to latch baby properly. In reality learned to get a good latch is a learning curve but you can only work with what you have, and you can’t always force a newborn to do it ‘right’.

There are a lot of factors that contribute to being able or unable to bf, I was quite shocked that nobody during pregnancy ever mentioned that not everyone can physically safely EBF. They are scared of putting people off. It’s infantilising.

@Hardbackwriter

There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. I would add that in this culture we are conditioned to think of breastfeeding as some sort of random ability you either do or don't have, instead of what is, in the majority of situations, the combination of the failing support system, cultural prejudice and aggressive formula marketing.

And if you are 'lucky enough' that you do have this random ability, the decent thing is to feel guilty enough to avoid speaking positively about your experience (as it's seen as bragging or taunting other mothers) and to overlook the kind of undermining comments that would never be deemed acceptable to say about formula feeding. The kind that can be found in this thread: misinformation about breastfeeding, hostility to the OP for having a negative experience with formula feeding as if it's some sort of personal attack, remarks about BF mothers who actually can't parent their kids and the implication that breastfeeding somehow undermines 'proper' parenting. All the way to the deranged "breastfeeding makes you smell" which hardly anyone reacted to - but just imagine the outrage if it was said about formula-feeding mothers.

I'm pregnant and looking for a book for my son to prepare him for life with a younger sibling. Out of at least a dozen of children books I've looked at only one didn't assume the baby would be bottle fed. This was such a novelty that numerous reviewers felt they had to mention it. Every other book had illustrations of the baby being given a bottle and captions such as "you can help by feeding the baby, passing the bottle to Mummy" etc. Really annoying.
I acknowledge that personal experience is often different than the norm and really feel for anyone shamed about how they feed their baby. But bottle feeding is still seen as the default in our culture and that indoctrination starts at an early age (all those baby Annabell type dolls come with a bottle as another example).

Brilliant post @Frezia

And if you are 'lucky enough' that you do have this random ability, the decent thing is to feel guilty enough to avoid speaking positively about your experience (as it's seen as bragging or taunting other mothers) and to overlook the kind of undermining comments that would never be deemed acceptable to say about formula feeding. The kind that can be found in this thread: misinformation about breastfeeding, hostility to the OP for having a negative experience with formula feeding as if it's some sort of personal attack, remarks about BF mothers who actually can't parent their kids and the implication that breastfeeding somehow undermines 'proper' parenting.

Unfortunately all of this is frequently said about formula feeding parents. Misinformation (‘it’s a better bond with bf! Bf will increase your child’s IQ!’ ‘formula is full of junk!’), hostility towards people struggling with bf, and especially remarks that formula feeding parents aren’t parenting as well as the gold standard of bf because they’re providing substandard nutrition, taking the easy route, not providing antibodies for their baby, being selfish, not putting the effort it.

As said above, whichever way you feed your baby you will receive judgment and shame and crappy comments. It isn’t a case of trying to argue who has it harder (though you can’t deny that people who want to bf are heavily encouraged by HCPs, NHS infant feeding classes, public health messaging, even writing on formula cans).

Might also be worth looking at context: this is a thread where someone is struggling with how much they hate FF. It would be crass and insensitive to descend on it talking about how amazing breastfeeding is.

It’s not a case of bf being some magical ability you do or don’t have, but recognising that although the majority of people who want to bf will be able to with the right support, for a percentage of women it is as simple as it being something that they just. cannot. do. And it’s patronising not to talk about that, as well as insulting to those women.

Anyway, OP didn’t want this to turn into a bf vs ff debate.

I think a lot of the ‘encouragement’ is lip service only.

It tends to be ‘breast is best. You tried? Never mind, formula then.’

@Dustypinks

I think a lot of the ‘encouragement’ is lip service only.

It tends to be ‘breast is best. You tried? Never mind, formula then.’

Sorry you had that experience. I genuinely had endless HCPs tell me repeatedly, for weeks, that if I kept trying and tried harder I’d be able to breastfeed. To the extent my poor baby ended up hospitalised with starvation and was so poorly. Almost required a full blood transfusion.

Breastfeeding support groups were offered. The NHS feeding class was purely about bf and didn’t mention formula at all even though it was supposed to be feeding in general. Multiple people insisting on watching a feed and checking latch. Everyone I spoke to giving lots of quite patronising praise about how well I was doing and to not give up even though I was quite clearly destroying myself under the pressure of not sleeping for longer than half an hour at a time due to triple feeding. Even offered to put me on prescription drugs to force a supply (domperidone) which is quite serious potentially dangerous stuff.

I guess it shows that the care is anything but standardised across the board. Some of us feel pushed into formula use. Some feed pushed into breastfeeding. When what is really called for is ‘how would YOU like to feed your baby?’ and then support being there to help you achieve that aim.

Yes I get it @BabyLeaf

Pressure to breastfeed = bad. That should never happen and women who hate breastfeeding should not be made to feel bad about choosing to switch to formula.

Pressure to formula feed = good. The BF nazis are awful, formula is just as good, My Friend Teaches Year One And Can’t Tell Which Ones Are Breastfed.

See how the messages are a bit muddled?

kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/relactation/

You could restart if you wanted. I've posted a link

Not nine months later, you can’t!

You could lactate again, yes. You'd probably need to pump though. I was still feeding my baby breast milk only plus solids, by the time he was your baby's age. I did try to get him to match but once babies lose the knack, you're right, it's very hard to start again. But if you're interested in pumping to get some breast milk into your baby, I can recommend a pump?

Latch*

All the way to the deranged "breastfeeding makes you smell" which hardly anyone reacted to - but just imagine the outrage if it was said about formula-feeding mothers.

Um, but, that comment came after the discussion of formula smelling?

I would love to say I never smelt while DD was a baby but no, if she wasn't dribbling formula she was vomiting it (she was a very vomity baby). I remember choosing a dress for my brother's wedding specifically on the grounds that it would hide the appearance (if not the smell) of copious baby vomit.

I am sure there are some people, however they feed their babies, who are always scrupulously clean and never smell. But to call it 'deranged' is really nasty. You must know a lot of people's mental health is very shaky post-birth: implying that those people are 'deranged' if they realise they smell, or if they worry about the smell of milk/baby dribble, is really out of line.

To be fair @SarahAndQuack there is a huge difference between formula smells, in the same way some foods do, and you personally smelling.

Ive breastfed 3 of my children and currently breastfeeding and ended up Fomula feeding my eldest daughter (I have a 12 ,10,5&5 month children boy, girl, boy,girl order) as I had to go back into hospital with my daughter but was too ill to feed her , I found it so inconvenient, expensive and she was MUCH harder to wean on to solids , I hated it so I feel you !x

@dustypinks - of course, but in practical terms it often comes to the same thing, doesn't it? You smell of formula because your baby has dribbled on your top, or vomited down your bra (one of my least favourite things), and you're just constantly in touch with this leaky little object that wants to feed. I do see that, if in isolation someone had started a thread saying 'I think BF makes you smell, yuck' it would sound quite different, but in the context of the thread, I'm not sure it was fair to call that comment deranged. That implies you'd only notice or worry about how your body smells if you're out of your mind, which just feels like a really insensitive comment.

Um, but, that comment came after the discussion of formula smelling?

But that was a discussion of formula powder itself smelling - and it does have a strong smell, though I don't personally find it unpleasant - whereas a poster claimed that women who breastfeed smell, which you will surely agree is quite different? Tbh, though, I think it was such a weird and left-field comment that that's why it was largely ignored in the thread.

FF is a proper paid in the arse, the constant washing and sterilisation, the cost of bottles, teats and formula, the faffing about making one up in the middle of the night etc.

It truly is a pain, I’ve FF 2 children and combo fed the 3rd. Unfortunately BF never really got going for me no matter how hard I tried but in those first few weeks when I was feeding I remember thinking many times how much easier it was without all the messing around.

It was the pumping round the clock to try and get some sort of supply going and getting dust in return that was the death knell for BF. Made the switch and spent the next 10 months moaning about FF 😂

@Hardbackwriter

Um, but, that comment came after the discussion of formula smelling?

But that was a discussion of formula powder itself smelling - and it does have a strong smell, though I don't personally find it unpleasant - whereas a poster claimed that women who breastfeed smell, which you will surely agree is quite different? Tbh, though, I think it was such a weird and left-field comment that that's why it was largely ignored in the thread.

Well, since you and dustypinks both read it the same way I think I must be wrong! And so I'm sorry.

I think I read the parts about formula smelling as relating to general feeding, because looking back, that was a fairly dominant part of my experience - it smelt, so I smelt!

I can absolutely see that there is something different in saying someone's body smells because it's producing milk.

I think what bothers me is labelling that perception 'deranged'. Maybe I'm odd, but my experience with my DP was that, when she was struggling after DD was born, she constantly felt as if she was 'deranged' for being bothered about how her body was. The health visitor really had a go at her for it - as if it meant she couldn't care about DD if she was worrying about things like milk leaking or whatever. And she was breastfeeding. I don't think her perceptions were deranged at all.

@Dustypinks

I think a lot of the ‘encouragement’ is lip service only.

It tends to be ‘breast is best. You tried? Never mind, formula then.’

This was my experience too. I really, really wanted to breastfeed, but had a tough start with it. I had a post partum haemorrhage during which I lost 20% of my blood, my baby was full of mucus and sleepy from the drugs in his system after my c-section, and to top it all off I have huge boobs and totally flat nipples.

I had a brief ‘lesson’ from a really busy and overworked midwife (not her fault) and then was left to my own devices. On my third day in hospital when I was virtually hallucinating from lack of sleep I was told off for letting my baby go more than 3 hours without feeding, despite me having been trying to get him to latch for over an hour. I was desperate beyond belief to go home, and the midwife said to me ‘we can’t let you leave til we know you can feed him, so you’ll have to switch to formula if you want to go.’ It wasn’t her fault - she had 8 of us on the ward, she couldn’t handhold me the whole time. But it was so dismissive.

I ended up leaving anyway and then getting amazing at-home support from a family member who was a midwife, and who spent hours helping me sort the latch and get things going. Without that there’s no way I could have done it. And yet after that initial week of difficulty it all came together and I’ve now been feeding for 9 months. It was possible for me because I worked at it with the help of someone who knew what they were doing. Most women don’t get that support, and it’s really tough for them.

I think there's a lot of "grass is greener"'when it comes to feeding. I'm still breastfeeding my 5yo (which is fraught with its own issues) but I've used formula at points in his life and while it was a faff (and he didn't tolerate it nearly as well as bm and it did seem to trigger some allergies) it was also a godsend for me in terms of needing to get back to work when he was still

@SarahAndQuack

All the way to the deranged "breastfeeding makes you smell" which hardly anyone reacted to - but just imagine the outrage if it was said about formula-feeding mothers.

Um, but, that comment came after the discussion of formula smelling?

I would love to say I never smelt while DD was a baby but no, if she wasn't dribbling formula she was vomiting it (she was a very vomity baby). I remember choosing a dress for my brother's wedding specifically on the grounds that it would hide the appearance (if not the smell) of copious baby vomit.

I am sure there are some people, however they feed their babies, who are always scrupulously clean and never smell. But to call it 'deranged' is really nasty. You must know a lot of people's mental health is very shaky post-birth: implying that those people are 'deranged' if they realise they smell, or if they worry about the smell of milk/baby dribble, is really out of line.

I didn't say the poster was deranged but that the comment which said breastfeeding makes you smell is deranged. It specifically said "it [breastfeeding] makes you smell" implying it's a universal thing rather than what happened to them. The point is that saying formula feeding makes people smell would be equally deranged or offensive but unlike the breastfeeding one it would rightfully be called out. Posters in this thread have got offended and defensive at OP for saying far milder stuff about formula but when it comes to breastfeeding we're supposed to excuse it and shrug off for one reason or the other.

I loved FF. Id have ended up in a deep pit of PND if it hadnt been an option. I think we're lucky to have an alternative to breast available.

If you are seriously thinking about relactation then it is v much possible with some work (but that work may be more hassle than ff.) Dr Jack Newman has lots of info on this.