That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

I don't think their strategy has failed.

On the contrary, it's been a success over the last year. I left the UK during the pandemic and moved here. I've had a wonderful year of freedom compared to the ongoing and miserable lockdown situation that I experienced in the UK.

@Summerrain123

The point is to keep it at bay while they role out the vaccine. They will know they can't close the borders forever and will want to start travelling again at some point. It's not a failure. They will have vaccinated the majority of the vulnerable, I guess so when if inevitably takes spreads there, the impact will be less.

Yes, I thought this too; it isn't that they're locking down indefinitely. They're locking down until they can get enough people vaccinated.

"Zero covid" was never going to be possible, and I am not sure why anyone thought it would be though...I suppose with the other Sars viruses it was contained in other countries, but this one was not, so yes that was always doomed to fail as a strategy.

Why are you not looking at the actual facts?

Like the actual fact of very few deaths and fairly normal lives for most, and the prospect of vaccination (albeit somewhat delayed) reducing the need for future lockdowns?

[quote AuntieJoyce]@CheekyHobson I agree early on there were issues with vaccine supply but months have gone by not weeks and delta was coming. The lost time is frustrating

This thread is all altruism and other countries needing it more, not wanting to be guinea pigs. All versions of drinking the Kool Aid.[/quote]
I’m shocked at the mandatory removal of positive cases into isolation. That seems highly authoritarian for a liberal democracy, and the apparent acquiesce is scary. I only know of China to have taken this approach otherwise.

JA is not without her faults, but she is not like the bumbling fool whose role it is to lead the UK through these crises.

Well said. We don't hear much about Boris these days do we - I suspect people are hoping that the rest of the world has forgotten just how bad things were in the UK earlier in the pandemic (and before you all rush on here to deny it, we were reading MN back then).

Remind me how long it has been since you came out of restrictions? Just over a month ago wasn't it? So, how can you possibly know what the next year has in store for you, any more than any other country can, and yet there you are, predicting doom and gloom for other nations and everything being hunky-dory for yourself.

The population will be vaccinated

And there it is.

People still believing that the vaccine is the cure. My goodness it is scary how ill informed you are. You can STILL catch up covid WITH the vaccine, being fully vaccinated to the hilt will not bring you zero covid!!!!!!

Please read this again

The vaccine will not STOP covid.

So your wait will be nothing. You are not reaching that moment of being all safe. The UK are reopening with a huge protection - anitbodies are at 90% plus and still we have lots and lots of covid!!!!!!!!! And will continue to have plenty of covid swishing around for decades to come.

Jesus Christ. Who now actually believes the vaccines are the cure all? No one here in the UK that is for sure. Please look at the facts.

New Zealand had the right strategy at the beginning for them through and including the Alpha variant. The Delta variant is different, a game changer so to speak with how to deal with COVID. It renders I think any sort of Zero Covid/Elimination approach next to impossible to achieve and lockdowns arent as effective against it.

Where they have I think (and in part no fault of their own they were not a priority) failed to capitalise is with vaccines and getting them in which is rightly the priority now.

And an acceptance I think that zero covid is no longer possible

I mean....Can't really call it a failure can we, minimal deaths and very low case rates.

There of course will have to come a time where the lockdowns stop and borders open, but still there wont be the massive impact it has had on, lots of other countries because of their harsh approach at the start.

Its upsetting, because that could have been us, tight border control and one short hard lockdown right at the beginning and we wouldn't have been living as we have for the past 18 months

I don't think you can lock up your people indefinitely

Some people perhaps should be locked up indefinitely, but fortunately for those in NZ, their government has no plans to do so.

And an acceptance I think that zero covid is no longer possible

Finally.

@trancepants

There are a lot of reasons that NZ kept it's case so low. And yes, geographical location and population density played a part in that. But they also had a plan of action for novel diseases, years in the making, that they made a decision to put in place in January 3rd 2020. While the vast majority of the world wasn't paying the remotest bit of attention to events in Wuhan, the New Zealand government recognised the the potential danger and acted.

They had accessed their strengths and weaknesses and planned for them long in advance. And when news came of a new virus, they not only had a plan for how to handle it, they actually had the fucking ovaries to act immediately and put it in place. We can belittle their success all we want based on the advantages they had. But all European governments should have had similar plans in place, with our weaknesses and strengths in place. And they should have paid proper attention to what was happening in Wuhan, the fucking instant the Chinese government were willing to admit there was a problem.

And we can look at NZ and say, aw look, what a failure it's been. And yes, it's unfortunate timing for them that the Delta variant has gotten in now, before they have had time to put a proper vaccine programme in place. But they have saved thousands of lives, damaged their economies less and lived really normal lives for most of the last 18 months. Go back and look at the footage of the NYE celebrations in Christchurch. Look at the crowds on the streets singing and cheering. Then have a read of that night on Mumsnet. Think of the Christmas they had and the Christmas we had.

It honestly smacks of a really petulant need to feel a bit of schadenfruede out of jealousy because they managed better than us.

I live in NZ. This is spot on.

Its upsetting, because that could have been us, tight border control and one short hard lockdown right at the beginning and we wouldn't have been living as we have for the past 18 months

We would have done this had we known the vaccines would be as successful as they were. NZ took their decisions gambling on the vaccine being effective, and it is as far as preventing serious illness and death goes.

I don't think anyone thinks the vaccine prevents you from getting it ever or prevents people from ever transmitting it...do they? But it does prevent a decent number of people from becoming seriously ill. So there's a good chance they'll be fine in NZ once they are all vaccinated. I can't say I'd want to be in somewhere where I still have to apply to leave the country though... especially when there haven't been many serious cases there. But it isn't a macabre version of the Eurovision! Nobody gets points for winning the covid competition.

@stepupandbecounted
To the rest of the world it looks like insanity.

Erm no. Locking down for 1 case looks like taking responsibility and great care to me.

The rest of your long bloviating is also pure twaddle.

What is it with UK posters showing their literal ignorance of other countries all over the dang place?

Round of applause to the NZ posters who are beating back ignorant (right-wing media fueled) misinformation.

Their strategy, in the face of a global pandemic that no-one had experience of managing before, hasn't been perfect, no countries has, but they were better prepared, it has had clearer objectives and has been much better and more successfully executed than ours. Why the need to pick out NZ and announce it as a failure?

And there it is.

People still believing that the vaccine is the cure. My goodness it is scary how ill informed you are. You can STILL catch up covid WITH the vaccine, being fully vaccinated to the hilt will not bring you zero covid!!!!!

You may be surprised to discover that I don’t believe vaccine is the cure. It is a tool and an uncertain one at that. But for now, it is offering a degree of protection, and thus waiting until all the people who can be/want to be vaccinated BEFORE opening up is a reasonable strategy,

Your strategy: throwing your hands in the air and saying “there’s nothing we can do, so let’s do nothing” might turn out to be the correct strategy, but for now, other countries are using their judgement and taking a different approach.

I don't think anyone thinks the vaccine prevents you from getting it ever or prevents people from ever transmitting it...do they? But it does prevent a decent number of people from becoming seriously ill.

Exactly this.

The problem we had in AUS is our government rejected an offer from Pfizer to receive vaccine first and backed Astra Zeneca. Due to the blood clot issue, our medical advisory then removed approval for under 60s for AZ, and we had essentially no Pfizer for those under 60.

It has only been in the last couple of months that we have stock, and more importantly the medical advisory board lifted the restriction on AZ and the government indemnified doctors to give the injection to under 60s.

This was a huge mistake down under, as pre delta we should have been aggressively vaccinating. We're now looking to reach 80% vaccination in November, and NSW/VIC will face restrictions until then.

Don't forget in Australia and NZ, we have First Nation populations which we need to protect.

It's easy to see how keeping a small, isolated country covid free was feasible. Look for example at the low rates in the Isle of Wight, scilly isles despite the same covid restrictions as the the rest of the UK . The smugness of kiwis about it all has been a bit tedious though, it hasn't been a competition. A very small population plus low pop density, demographics have of course been factors.

What I can't understand is why they didn't take advantage of closed boarders get the vaccines rolled out swiftly to protect nationals, why only 20%?! Is it availability or take up, does anyone know?

The smugness of kiwis about it all has been a bit tedious though, it hasn't been a competition

Tbf, I think the ones that went out of their way to broadcast their success on websites hosted in other countries while their hospitals were heaving and many people were dying are of a particular mindset that doesn't represent the whole population of NZ.

So fellow kiwis - at what point in this thread should we all get the laser kiwi eyes out? 😂

@Fizbosshoes

NZ have been lauded for decisive and quick action, in some ways they had luck on their side. They closed their borders the day the WHO declared a pandemic, which, thankfully for them, was before covid had reached their shores.

No, we had quite a number of cases before the borders were closed.

And to those harping on about being locked in, we are not. We can leave and some people do. Of course they want to see whānau in other countries. They can also return and btw there is no cost for MIQ to NZ citizens returning for longer than 90 days.

Yes there is enormous pressure on quarantine places and yes the booking system needs an overhaul. Lots of lessons to learn.

Thing is, it was never just a done and dusted deal. The strategy is fluid as we all learn the ropes of this virus. Personally I'm OK with that. We are all humans trying to get by. And it's great to live somewhere where human life is accorded great value. It is after all, the point.

I'm glad for mandatory mask wearing and sign in, and I don't believe it's a "gotcha" moment to acknowledge it wasn't done earlier. It hasn't been necessary before now.

To whoever asked, yes people with covid are taken to managed quarantine. No-one has complained.

NZs advantage has been its isolation. It’s completely out on a limb at the end of the world. Plus it has a tiny population. The whole thing is generally easier to manage there.

The NZ approach is fantastic for people who don't ever want to leave NZ

Strange that, apart from 2 months last year and from mid july this year, overseas travel from the UK was also stopped/severely restricted.

Perhaps if countries like the UK hadn't over ordered so much Vaccine, Aus/NZ would have had enough for their own pop.? not mention all the dev countries that have little as well.

What I can't understand is why they didn't take advantage of closed boarders get the vaccines rolled out swiftly to protect nationals, why only 20%?! Is it availability or take up, does anyone know?

OMG - are people in the UK incapable of reading, or understanding? It has been mentioned several times on this thread alone, and on several others, that the bulk of the vaccines were not due to arrive in NZ until late July - i.e. just one month ago. You can't vaccinate when you don't have vaccines!

Agree that many posters on here seem delighted that NZ is going through this. Very unpleasant.

I'd rather have JA than Boris about a million times over. Hope everyone who wants to can get vaccinated asap.